Improvements to third person view?

[Big Dawg KS 6]

You are terrible at arguments.

Pretty much sums up the majority of Internet users... :rolleyes:

[dmarkwick 261]

Because you're wasting time and energy to demagogy. Why don't my facts aren't relevant to the game?

And I'm pretty positive that the option will not be removed. I'll save my money a bit then)))

You know, not every opposing fact/opinion is a victim of demagogy. You can use an excuse too much and it sounds like you believe only you are not subject to it whilst everyone else is.

Your facts do not apply to the game because of the nature of games: you're playing with the equivalent of a cardboard box over your head, in one of exactly 3 poses. There is a lot of situational awareness that such a setup removes, and I'm not talking about tasting tanks or whatever else nonsense you used as evidence.

And, as a game, I can play it any way I like thank you very much. I don't see how using 3rd person in a SP game is in any way cheaty, for the reasons I explained earlier. Like you, I would insist on 3rd person being disabled for PvP or TvT games, for the reasons you gave.

Unlike you, I wouldn't dream of removing the option. Because that's what it is, an option. If you refuse to buy a game because there is an option that you don't like, well then that's entirely up to you.

Edited August 9, 2011 by DMarkwick

[gossamersolid 155]

You know, not every opposing fact/opinion is a victim of demagogy. You can use an excuse too much and it sounds like you believe only you are not subject to it whilst everyone else is.

Comment is Winning! I lol'ed

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I did a spotcheck of a few Veteran servers just now, and every single one I tested had 3rd person and crosshairs enabled. Expert servers are the only ones we can truly trust anymore, unfortunately they are very far apart and typically locked or passworded. I have completely lost faith in public MP gaming with Arma.

Only reasons for 3rd person/tactical views are troop commanding, snaps/fraps, certain debug situations, and spectating scripts (to catch cheaters). So I'm not willing to part with the functionality.

As long as vehicle crosshairs is able to override crosshair setting (OA, not Arma2 units) also expected in Arma3, I see absolutely no reason to have it included for anything but recruit difficulty. There used to be reasons why crosshairs were actually needed. In arma2, they still are, but not in OA and (hopefully) Arma3.

This discussion isn't going anywhere, 3rd users laugh at 3rd haters, and 3rd haters laugh at 3rd users. And 3rd users, by looking at current public veteran servers, is definitely "winning the argument". Do us 3rd haters really have to turn to CoD hardcore mode or (God forbid) OFP2 to get rid of it? Why is it that these "lesser games" take 3rd person problematics more serious than our beloved (often referred to as a) sim?

I think the whole difficulty system needs a major rewamp.

[-=seany=- 5]

I haven't read all the posts, but I find Third person is fine as it is. DONT touch IT. If lots of servers are using this option it's because lots of players like it. We don't need some 3rd person hater to come along and tell us/force every one to play the game how they "think" it should be played.

I, for one, am sick of all the negative posts about things that are popular in Arma that a handful of people don't like so go on about it constantly..eg 3rd person view is a cheat etc, another example is the "Domination is crap and too many people play coop" arguments....These things are popular for a reason, we don't need to be told what to play. If hardcore options are so great start your own server.. with these options, people will come...what's that? they wont? I wonder why...

Another reason why some (including myself) like 3rd person is beacuse a lot of the missions I play don't usually run supper smooth, So there is inevitable stuttering. It's nice to be able to switch to 3rd for moving about when the game is running like this.

Edited August 9, 2011 by -=seany=-

[dmarkwick 261]

Why is it that these "lesser games" take 3rd person problematics more serious than our beloved (often referred to as a) sim?

Probably because there are genuine reasons for the use of 3rd person, as has been exhaustively discussed. Even if you don't agree with them. And make no mistake - if the other games even had 3rd person, you can bet they'd allow it in online games. They don't take it "more seriously", they simply don't have the ability.

In any case, if most servers allow it, then it implies a democratic reason to keep it as at least optional, right?

We should get something clear IMO: ArmA is first & foremost a game. It can be moulded into something more realistic, but it's primary and designed role is that of a game. Also, it's a difficult game. It's perfectly reasonable that a 3rd person feature should appear in the lower realism levels of such a game IMO.

And, as has also been exhaustively discussed, it's an option. If you're not seeing many servers with it disabled, it's not because the admins are clueless or noobs, it's because that's the way they wish it to be.

[woore 10]

I've take some rest from proving obvious things, and played Crysis 2 a bit, by your favour. So, there is more than enough proves, why 3rd view must be disabled. Most of your "arguments" are demagogy, not because they're directed against my opinion, but because they're based on statements I disprover later, or just postulated statements with no explanation. Looks like you're just have no logic. The rest of your "arguments" - "I like it, don't touch", "3rd view for now is very good, DON'T REMOVE IT", etc.

Anyway, your system "you want it - buy your own server" starts work too, WASP admins disabeling 3rd view and crosshairs now, XR too as I know.

Anyway, I proved my point of view, unlike you are, gentlemen. Dispute is over from my side, I don't want to prove anything that has already been proved, like in circle.

Gossammer, you have the most outstanding trash redneck speech manner I've ever seen on this forum. I had a better opinion about you.

[Maio 293]

Still hoping for a tactical lock :)

[CarlGustaffa 4]

"Don't have the ability"?

- game mode.

- via "DEVMODE"

OFP2 - via glitch, offsetting camera should be trivial for the devs if they wanted to.

I don't consider Veteran/Expert levels to be "lower levels". Recruit/Regular are "lower levels". Currently on Veteran you can allow all the (for me) big baddies: 3rd person, crosshairs, and extended map. Maybe for veteran, you should only allow 3rd person in certain game modes if you actually control AI, and/or just allow the use of one of these aids rather than all of them.

Full freedom is awesome. In theory. In practicality, it has tendency to turn things to shite. How much taxes would you pay it you had the option to choose yourself? :p What you call freedom I call bad design. Problem is that few knows (probably not myself as well) what good design is. Worse still, is refusal to discuss it, while slamming a ridiculous "don't like it, don't use it" argument.

Whatever the default and even enforced difficulties are, there is still options to make mods to override it for the few who wants to do that. Make it dependable mod, and server would be flagged red in my browser if I don't have it. That way, you get more sensible setups, and I don't have to waste a whole evening trying to find a server with reasonable difficulties that I would actually want to play on, and I don't have to waste the servers bandwidth downloading the mission just to join and instantly quit.

Should difficulties be mission oriented rather than server oriented? I think so. If a mission allows changing, it could be done via paramsArray. Even if it does not allow changing, all you have to do is change it in the mission itself. Or even allow mods that can do it independently, like some missions now allow you to do for view distance and grass.

[gossamersolid 155]

Gossamer, you have the most outstanding trash redneck speech manner I've ever seen on this forum. I had a better opinion about you.

Fixed your spelling there in bold.

You take things way too personally on a forum, stop being such a baby. Plus I don't understand how I have a "trash redneck speech manner". Please enlighten me!

Our arguments were rather valid and whether or not you wanted to listen to them, well that's your choice.

[PeterBitt 10]

woore is right, the 3rd person users seriously lack good arguments for keeping it in a game like ArmA series, whilst there are now dozens of good facts to not use it on this thread.

i just hope that some of the comments here got the attention of the devs and make them think a little bit about it.

at least consider to remove it from veteran mode

[Bee8190 10]

@Woore

trash redneck speech manner??

Reading your deeply disrespectful posts constantly reminds me of smacktard definition.

Put yourself together man...This is discusion forums, not dictators twitter.

Now if i may i would recomend ACE - 3th person disabled for ALL and brings many new/additional functions as well as weapons.

For non ACE - just on top of my head i can think of 7 servers that running 3th disabled most of the time, furthermore have enabled advanced injury params and alike..(from cti to valhalla to coop)

( feel free to PM me and i will name them for ya)

Also many servers allows you to log in as admin and set every parameter available as you please, missions included. ( I do so myself when im feeling for coop with mando enabled or else:p)

Having said that i see no reason on demanding nor threathening, just do your homework and you WILL find server to your likings.

Just have fun and let others have it too;)

[dmarkwick 261]

I've take some rest from proving obvious things, and played Crysis 2 a bit, by your favour. So, there is more than enough proves, why 3rd view must be disabled. Most of your "arguments" are demagogy, not because they're directed against my opinion, but because they're based on statements I disprover later, or just postulated statements with no explanation. Looks like you're just have no logic. The rest of your "arguments" - "I like it, don't touch", "3rd view for now is very good, DON'T REMOVE IT", etc.

Anyway, your system "you want it - buy your own server" starts work too, WASP admins disabeling 3rd view and crosshairs now, XR too as I know.

Anyway, I proved my point of view, unlike you are, gentlemen. Dispute is over from my side, I don't want to prove anything that has already been proved, like in circle.

Gossammer, you have the most outstanding trash redneck speech manner I've ever seen on this forum. I had a better opinion about you.

Woore, your "proves" [sic] are only your opinions of gameplay. Nothing more. Please make an effort to understand what "proof" means.

You have conveniently ignored one single massive fact, that most servers allow 3rd person. If most servers allow 3rd person, what does that "prove"?

Edited August 9, 2011 by DMarkwick

[Big Dawg KS 6]

woore is right, the 3rd person users seriously lack good arguments for keeping it in a game like ArmA series

And "3rd person users are cheating" is a good argument? If you honestly believe that these arguments are poor then you are just being ignorant. Mr. Buchta said they would never remove features from the engine anyway, and they certainly aren't going to make exceptions for something used so much, so all the 3rd person haters here are wasting their time arguing.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

So my suggestion on making settings mission oriented (at least as a possibility) rather than server oriented, is just "wasting my time"? Nice :( Guess there is no point in trying to discuss when arguments become like that.

Others have had bad design choices as well, that get addressed over time. Why should BIS, or any other game companies, want to listen to those who clearly wants to use it as a "cheat"?

ref post #23:

I mostly play in 1st person, but if I'm prone behind a wall with a tank looking for me, I use thrird person because IMO IRL I would have more awareness as to the position of the tank.

Off course this is a cheat (no quotes). How can you deny this as cheating?

But, I take your advice and just give up. Public MP is already down the drain, why stop there? Had a rather lengthy answer, which I just deleted, as nobody seems to care anyways.

[dmarkwick 261]

Phrase of the week:

"I do not think that word means what you think it means".

[Dreahack 10]

remove 3rd view for infantry and let it only for vehicles ...that will do something.

[rye1 22]

Deffo need for vehicles in A2, but with RTT and the possibility of checking your side mirrors maybe not so much. :p

[CameronMcDonald 146]

I want BIS to incorporate two 3rd person modes just to piss people off.

[rye1 22]

4th person. NAO.

[nikiforos 450]

If 3d person is removed I personally will never buy the game. Call me amateur or whatever but I play both 2d and 3d person . I like to have the opportunity to choose my self.

[dmarkwick 261]

If 3d person is removed I personally will never buy the game. Call me amateur or whatever but I play both 2d and 3d person . I like to have the opportunity to choose my self.

Well exactly. Why would someone who doesn't have any kind of stake at all in the way someone plays in a for-fun SP game give any kind of a damn about how that person enjoys it?

Example: just last night I quickly threw down some heavy AT groups, and some opposing mech infantry groups, randomised their positions and waypoint over the entire of Utes, and randomised my own position also. I spawned random launcher crates all over the island.

In at least one memorable moment, I was pinned down behind a low wall/mound of stones with a mech element spraying machine gun fire from a distance. Using 3rd person, I had a great view as I slowly crawled away from where the mech believed I was, watching the incoming tracer fire and the noisy impacts. I enjoyed it immensely.

But, apparently all that time I was "cheating".

[AstroMan 10]

I use it to have fun, In a CTI match I sometimes just feel like buying a golden AK and just attack and defend Feruz Abad in third person just running around and spraying when i encounter enemies. But when i feel like playing using tactics and squads i mostly use 1st view. I like it the way it is. I can choose which one i feel like playing at that moment.

[gossamersolid 155]

So my suggestion on making settings mission oriented (at least as a possibility) rather than server oriented

There are very easy to use scripts out there already that deal with this. I believe all of Celery's PVP missions prevent third person via mission parameter.

Just have a loop checking if the camera is external, if so, set it back to internal! Bam issue solved!

[dmarkwick 261]

There are very easy to use scripts out there already that deal with this. I believe all of Celery's PVP missions prevent third person via mission parameter.

Just have a loop checking if the camera is external, if so, set it back to internal! Bam issue solved!

I should say that a loop such as that is undesirable. If 3rd person is not desired in either a mission or a server setup, then it ought to be a simple toggle.

3rd person could be disabled for MP by default, similar to cam scripts etc.

In fact why not have a specific server module where all these things can be set, right in the mission? That way either the server setup can disable it or the mission, by design. Then the only way there can be 3rd person is if it's actually consciously enabled.