Development Blog & Reveals

[maturin 12]

'No' progress on grass doesn't mean that the AI see through grass. Because they already provided a rough fix for Chernarus grass where the AI view is blocked based on depth of the cluttler. If they design the new grass with that in mind from the start, it should work passingly well.

And we really don't need a fully functional 3D editor. We need a fast 3D preview for maneuvering fiddly objects around (like building firebases etc). Dropping down units and doing triggers in 2D is just fine, but building defenses is torture.

[Przemek_kondor 13]

Let's hope Limnos has better ground textures

[froggyluv 2136]

Honestly I think Limnos looks pretty damn sexy and really like the lighting/colors.

*Rasta* Ciant wait to be lymin' bout dat island :)

As far as AI - haven't really been given any new pluses besides config enhancements....can't you throw us a bone as to anything new to expect? A1 > A2 had Micropathfinding; A2 added under the fence hole pathfinding (awesome fix Dwarden!)...anything along these lines maybe enhanced cover understanding or better suppression?

Ill kickstart $100 to AI development -just say the word!!!

[frostwyrm333 1]

Grass problems? Wasn't this fixed ages ago? I don't remember having problems with this at all. Also:

pettka's tweet:

Team Mike is unable to do a thing on ‪#Arma3‬ - they are testing a new range for GC. I am configuring stuff for their better performance ;)

Jay Crowe's tweet:

FYI: ‪#Arma3‬ news may be a little lax; currently investing in the German economy by sitting in Berlin hipster bars for a week following MELT!

[maturin 12]

Grass problems? Wasn't this fixed ages ago? I don't remember having problems with this at all. Also:

Chernarus and Utes grass was fixed... sort of. It's nowhere near as reliable as the bushes ingame

[Undeceived 392]

Chernarus and Utes grass was fixed... sort of. It's nowhere near as reliable as the bushes ingame

Oh, I doubt that! Try to take a hill protected by the AI by approaching on foot slowly and carefully with the grass enabled. You should get killed before you actually can see the AI.

Happened to me innumerous times, even with the latest version. That's why I very often disable the grass... It's just frustrating!

[pettka 694]

pettka's tweet:

Team Mike is unable to do a thing on ‪#Arma3‬ - they are testing a new range for GC. I am configuring stuff for their better performance ;)

Bloody hell, did I write Team Mike? It was Team Bravo. Nevertheless, it was great fun to have direct feedback during the whole day, just wait for the showcase on GC (or during Focus testing for the lucky lot) :icon_twisted:

[metalcraze 290]

GS: "Is the AI finally unable to look through the grass?"

D.M.: "Unfortunately there is no progress. It stays like it is."

I can't believe that it isn't possible to fix this...! In so many missions the grass details are completely useless because the AI has such a huge advantage over the player because it can look through the grass.

No it cannot.

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Clearly there was something important lost in translation.

AI can't see through grass but it is a huge mistake to think that the moment you go prone you become invisible. AI is not stupid. He will shoot the position you go prone in.

When I don't give that movement waypoint to units - BLUFOR AI in the video almost always shoots one of them because they simply drop to the ground and don't move.

Don't overestimate but also don't underestimate AI in this game. He does not hit anyone but at the same time notice how he tries to predict where they moved. You have to be unpredictable.

Edited July 18, 2012 by metalcraze

[Undeceived 392]

Ok, there might be something fishy with the German tranalation of Dan's words, but I don't give much about those killer-argumentation-videos... Guess that I'll fraps some situations when I get a bit more of time.

[maturin 12]

Metalcraze, sometimes you just act like a dishonest parody of yourself.

Question: Can the AI see through (Chernarus!) grass?

Answer: Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Chernarus grass (of certain types!) does hide you when you go prone in it, often too well, in a way that is unfair to the AI. Because of this sloppy flix, AI tend to go prone and blind themselves now, waiting helplessly for the player to walk up and shank them.

Forest ferns block AI very poorly, however, and river reeds block AI vision almost not at all. Furthermore, the grass only hides you when you are IN it, not if it is obscuring the top of a ridge, and not if the clutter is interspersed between your position and the enemy's.

If you try to cross a ridgeline, the AI will see through the grass as if it isn't there. If you go prone on a road and are concealed by thick grass on the road margin, the AI will see through it as well. This is because grass cannot interrupt a line of sight check. It only obscures your prone form based on the procedurally-generated depth value of the grass, and blinds AI that are prone in it. Whether or not you are hidden is also a function of distance, not density. If you try to hide behind dense grass the utterly removes line of sight, the AI will still see you if the range is too short.

[metalcraze 290]

Ah but this doesn't show just prone AI being blind.

5 AIs were standing. They didn't spot a dude lying in a grass. I thought you'd notice that little detail.

The most common grass on Chernarus does provide a viewblock for AI. I know it isn't polygon-based. And I don't really care how it works as long as I see the satisfying result.

[maturin 12]

Ah but this doesn't show just prone AI being blind.

5 AIs were standing. They didn't spot a dude lying in a grass. I thought you'd notice that little detail.

The most common (like 95% of the surface) grass on Chernarus does provide a viewblock for AI. I know it isn't polygon-based. And I don't really care how it works as long as I see the satisfying result.

I didn't watch the video, as I'm aware that the system often works. I raised a number of complaints, and know firsthand from gameplay and explicit tests that that results are often not at all satisfying.

It is a clever stopgap measure implemented by a beta patch after multiple years of uproarious complaints by nearly the entire community, not a full feature. Good job whoever the dev was (Suma?), but I am not placated.

[Undeceived 392]

That issue with the ridgeline is the thing that totally pisses me off! Well discribed, Maturin.

Playing without grass gives me nostalgia-feelings because everything looks a bit more like OFP, but seriously - this can't be the way it works if you want to have a chance in such situations!

I so much hope that BI will finally (completely) fix this immersion killer...

[maturin 12]

At this point playing without grass on Chernarus means cheating enormously against the AI in many situations. People just haven't fully realized it yet.

[Undeceived 392]

Never saw it from that perspective. :D I just ask myself who gets more pissed off, me or the AI? ;)

Well, let's see and hope if / that BIS can still do something for Arma 3 regareing this...

Still waiting and hoping for the 3D-editor as well...

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Chernarus grass (of certain types!) does hide you when you go prone in it, often too well, in a way that is unfair to the AI. Because of this sloppy flix, AI tend to go prone and blind themselves now, waiting helplessly for the player to walk up and shank them.

True, but if you combine this lack of "sight", or disability to shoot because his target vanished, with the new ability to lay some suppressive (experienced as "blind") fire - I think it will work out quite nicely. Ref video of vehicle suppressing player behind a rock, hoping this extends to fire and maneuver AI drill as well.

Question to devs if possible: Can you shed some light on this new mine and cluster artillery munitions please? I.e, are the submunitions "mixed" so as to get true DPICMs? How many of each, do they reflect real world values? Do they produce duds (that would be frigging awesome) making the area unsafe for operations? It's said that concrete and buildings will hide you well from this munition (still have great impact on fighting morale), does the same apply in game?

[maturin 12]

True, but if you combine this lack of "sight", or disability to shoot because his target vanished, with the new ability to lay some suppressive (experienced as "blind") fire - I think it will work out quite nicely. Ref video of vehicle suppressing player behind a rock, hoping this extends to fire and maneuver AI drill as well.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying. That the AI should bury their faces in the dirt like ostriches because they don't understand how to maneuver around their environment anymore? They don't have human logic; they don't know that the grass is blocking them, and that they have to stand up. They just lie there.

And are you telling me that this latest beta patch, unannounced, suddenly made the AI readily willing to shoot through soft cover? Because my AI have always refused to shoot through bushes, except under extraordinary and unpredictable situations.

And if that is indeed the case, are you saying that the AI should be handicapped by blindness in order to artificially make the AI use suppressing fire?

[gonk 0]

At 12:28 in the video was that Tree Damage or a LOD pop error ? It looked like all the leaves disappeared a second after the trees had rounds go through it (12:27) ? None of the other trees he flew over changed that way... ?

[maturin 12]

I think he 'destroyed' the tree. It's an unfinished feature. In the E3 skirmish, a bush hit by small arms falls over and is flattened.

[Timnos 1]

I was pondering the discussion about the AI being able to see through grass and it made me think of something. Over the years there have been many discussions (sometimes heated) throughout the forums about grass/clutter draw distance, especially about the lack of grass/clutter when viewed at medium/far distances through optics. Maybe BIS could make a winter map with a snowy environment like Thirsk -

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Despite the lack of grass/clutter the map looks and feels very natural and realistic, and winter camoflauge clothing and patterns would be extremely effective at all ranges with the new lighting engine.

[SASrecon 0]

hah not to go too off-topic or anything, but yea it would be awesome if bis released some sort of snowy map+units+/weapons etc. dlc (or 'content patch', although I doubt this would happen). Anyone have any idea why they haven't really ventured into this properly before?

[jakerod 254]

hah not to go too off-topic or anything, but yea it would be awesome if bis released some sort of snowy map+units+/weapons etc. dlc (or 'content patch', although I doubt this would happen). Anyone have any idea why they haven't really ventured into this properly before?

Probably because from a realistic stand point it involves more than just painting the ground white. In order to have clutter get covered up by the snow you would need at least a foot of snow or we'll go with .5 meters. This means that there would have to be .5 meters of snow along the sides of roads. Most likely this would then become the clutter and you would have to deal with the AI being able to see and shoot through it. Then theres the matter of movement in snow is more difficult and how do you compensate for that? Can wheeled vehicles pretty much only use roads now because the snow would be an issue. Essentially I think it raises more issues than most people realize. Not that the issues aren't solvable but a realistic snow map would not be easy.

[Maddmatt 1]

How about just making most the clutter grass short with some tall bits and weeds so it doesn't really block the view. Then have some areas of tall grass that are placed as objects, like bushes.

In real life grass isn't necessarily tall everywhere.

[Timnos 1]

Can wheeled vehicles pretty much only use roads now because the snow would be an issue.

Military vehicles can drive through snow! Even some family vehicles can do it.

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The more I think about it, snow in Arma3 engine would be amazing fun.

[onlyrazor 11]

Can wheeled vehicles pretty much only use roads now because the snow would be an issue.

With vehicle modularity, wheeled may not be an issue.

Obviously, there are no Humvees in Arma 3, but the same principle applies.