A.C.R.E - Advanced Combat Radio Environment - 1.3 Stable - Release Thread

[d3lta 10]

Heavy weapons are moved to a bag in ACE when you get into crew positions of Helicopters etc.

You can place the radio in the Cargo of the vehicle while using the actual built-in radio of the vehicle while operating the vehicle..

http://ace.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Eject_HALO_System+description#Weapons%20restrictions%20when%20entering%20planes%20or%20helicopters

UPDATE:

Thanks Sickboy, all right now!!

Edited September 29, 2011 by D3lta

[ekempey 10]

With ACRE all vehicles have radio racks.

[ROBINO 0]

Hi all.

First I would like to say congratulations on an excellent mod - it is very fun to use.

However, me and my clan UKTF see (http://www.uktf-clan.co.uk/) are using ACRE in every mission but pretty much every mission without fail ACRE ends-up being dissed because people can't tell if its working properly OR if the problems are a result of realistic signal attenuation/loss/occlusion. Nobody has enough experience of real-life radios to tell.

ACRE has the disadvantage because its installation is slightly more complex than your average ARMA2 mod (needing plugins, TS3, .dll's in correct location, run as admin etc) and his complexity means that when ACRE doesn't work when people expect it to; then it's peoples past experiences with installation problems which come to the fore and the talk seems to be 'ACRE isn't working for me, I couldn't get through, can we drop ACRE'

I don't want our clan to drop ACRE. If you could provide us with better examples/information about how/when the radios SHOULD and SHOULD NOT work then it won't be the mod that gets the blame it'll be how we are using it.

The information I need are things like:

1) what is the maximum range of each radio?

2) how does the signal power effect the penetration of signals through woods/urban areas?

3) how does line of sight exactly effect each signal? is it the same for each radio?

4) can you give full examples (from in-game) of when the signal is and is not lost?

I've already seen the diagrams here: (http://tracker.idi-systems.com/projects/acre/wiki/Signal_Loss_Information) but they aren't really detailed and don't give an idea of the differences between each radio.

[BittleRyan 10]

Hi all.

First I would like to say congratulations on an excellent mod - it is very fun to use.

However, me and my clan UKTF see (http://www.uktf-clan.co.uk/) are using ACRE in every mission but pretty much every mission without fail ACRE ends-up being dissed because people can't tell if its working properly OR if the problems are a result of realistic signal attenuation/loss/occlusion. Nobody has enough experience of real-life radios to tell.

ACRE has the disadvantage because its installation is slightly more complex than your average ARMA2 mod (needing plugins, TS3, .dll's in correct location, run as admin etc) and his complexity means that when ACRE doesn't work when people expect it to; then it's peoples past experiences with installation problems which come to the fore and the talk seems to be 'ACRE isn't working for me, I couldn't get through, can we drop ACRE'

I don't want our clan to drop ACRE. If you could provide us with better examples/information about how/when the radios SHOULD and SHOULD NOT work then it won't be the mod that gets the blame it'll be how we are using it.

The information I need are things like:

1) what is the maximum range of each radio?

2) how does the signal power effect the penetration of signals through woods/urban areas?

3) how does line of sight exactly effect each signal? is it the same for each radio?

4) can you give full examples (from in-game) of when the signal is and is not lost?

I've already seen the diagrams here: (http://tracker.idi-systems.com/projects/acre/wiki/Signal_Loss_Information) but they aren't really detailed and don't give an idea of the differences between each radio.

If you start next to each other, do radio checks and walk around someone to see if 3d sound is working than your set. It shouldn't just stop working. If you think it stopped working talk to somebody in-game and see if they hear you in 3d or the other way around. If you lose radio communications, like in real life, you need to work around it.

Hope this helps it might not, I am not an expert.

[ROBINO 0]

If you start next to each other, do radio checks and walk around someone to see if 3d sound is working than your set. It shouldn't just stop working. If you think it stopped working talk to somebody in-game and see if they hear you in 3d or the other way around. If you lose radio communications, like in real life, you need to work around it.

Hope this helps it might not, I am not an expert.

we do full radio checks before we begin

but

how do we work around the problem when we don't know what's causing the problem? I really need that radio specific detailed info.

---------- Post added at 11:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 PM ----------

we were using 117's in the op tonight with different fire teams spread at no more than 1000m

we were trying to talk to air support aswell but i think contact was lost at points

perhaps we could start with some detailed information and people's experiences with the 117's?

[b00ce 160]

You need to boost the signal strength. ;) You need to do this for every radio manually, by default they have lower settings.

For the PRC-117F

Bring up the radio with Rt Ctrl+Rt Shift+X

A big green box should show up, I cropped most of it out because you won't need it.

1. Click the PGM button

2. Select the channel you want to edit by clicking the < and > arrows

3. Click the ENT button

The screen should look like this now.

"FREQ" should be flashing, use the < and > arrows to select "POWER" (indicated by it flashing) and hit enter.

Next this screen will show.

Use the < and > arrows to select the power setting.

"CUR:" is what the radio is currently set to.

"NEW:" is what the radio will be set to when you hit enter.

It is easier to use the < arrow to go to 20000. ;)

NOTE:

You have to select the power for every channel manually with the PRC-117F

For the PRC-148 hit the "MODE" button, on the upper right, twice and press the down arrow once, hit "ENT".

For the PRC-152 hit the "OPT" button, on the lower left, then "ENT" and the down arrow until you select "HIGH", press "ENT" again.

It is important to understand that, like the link you posted explains, you need good line of sight of the radios. Hills and buildings will block the radio signal. For air assets, this isn't as big of a problem because they are above the hills, but for ground units, they need to be on top of it to broadcast to their full potential, otherwise there is going to be very limited reception.

Here's a list of radios and their ranges at full power.

AN/PRC-343 500m (might get beyond that on very open terrain, probably much less in urban areas)

AN/PRC-148 UHF/VFH ~12km (VFH version has some advantages over rougher flat terrain, but it is mainly meant to talk to systems on higher frequencies).

AN/PRC-152 Same as above basically.

AN/PRC-119 ~10km

AN/PRC-117F ~20km

Hope it helps. :)

Edited October 2, 2011 by b00ce

[messiahua 0]

Here's a list of radios and their ranges at full power

Just want to warn everybody, that 343 is almost useless on steep hills. Signal is lost at ~65 meters even without any obstruction, like here: http://tracker.idi-systems.com/attachments/60/p2_2.jpg

[SD_BOB 10]

That ok the 343 is utter crap IRL aswell. Good to see it faithfully represented :D

EDIT:- Is there any advantage/disadvantage of using the compatible ACE radios, rather than using the one's provided within the ACRE system? i.e the Man Pack 117 etc.

Just curious as to whether its worth needing ACRE dependency in a mission.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Shadow.D. ^BOB^

[noubernou 77]

There isn't any advantage. Every ACE radio backpack is an ACRE 119.

---------- Post added at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was at 19:20 ----------

Just want to warn everybody, that 343 is almost useless on steep hills. Signal is lost at ~65 meters even without any obstruction, like here: http://tracker.idi-systems.com/attachments/60/p2_2.jpg

Thats actually a bug in our terrain profiling code where its skipping over the player and sampling behind them one step. It will be fix in future version but for the most part its a fairly edge case scenario. I should update the ticket you posted though with that status.

[SD_BOB 10]

There isn't any advantage. Every ACE radio backpack is an ACRE 119.

Ok I'm just trying to get an understanding of the difference and need for the radio's that are in ACRE as opposed to ACE.

What's the difference in the AN/PRC-117F Manpack? Are we talking a massive range or signal power difference over the 119?

I take it the AN/PRC 148 UHF&VHF have been replaced by the 343? Or is there still a use for these? TBH i am unsure why there are VHF & UHF versions anyway.

At first i thought there may be some kind of distinction between ground comms and air (UHF for air to air or VHF for air to ground), but it appears all the vehicles which are outfitted, have the AN/PRC-117F. I like the fact that it adds an element of simplicity, i just want to make sure i get a full understanding.

The AN/PRC-152, again is there anything specific to this radio or its function in the overall network?

So to summarize, without the ACRE dependency, i could do everything i needed to using:-

343 - Squad Comms?

119 - Portable Comms with distant units and/or vehicles and aircraft?

117 - Purely used as the in vehicle radio?

This brings me onto another point, is there a way to outfit a vehicle without a radio lets say the BAF Jackals, with one?

And finally.......:p bear with me.

What exactly does the "Lower/Raise Headset" action do?

I apologize if this has been discussed before, as i say I'm just trying to get a full understanding of the system. Now I'm finished asking questions i can praise you guys for something which is not only brilliantly clever, but also something that adds so much in my opinion, to an area of military operations frequently overlooked.

Thankyou in advance for any assistance you can provide with my torrent of enquiries :D

Edited October 4, 2011 by Shadow.D. ^BOB^

[noubernou 77]

The 117 has more power and generally longer range (though thats kinda be changing in the future as we implement more realism to the radios) and it can do a broader range of frequencies, from 30 to 512 Mhz.

The 148 and 152 are not equatable to the 343, they have good range and are pretty capable radios (better than the 119 in a lot of ways). The UHF and VHF versions have different antennas modeled in the code (the UHF has better gain for for UHF band, VHF better for VHF band).

The vehicle racks will change in the future, aircraft will get specific radios, AN/ARC series, etc.

The 152 is not fully implemented, but it is functional, it is comparable to the 148 it its capabilities.

Generally with the ranges in A2 the 343 is inter-squad comms, anything else can really be used for communicating to more distant units.

As for outfitting other vehicles with racks that does require config changes.

Lower/Raise headset simulates lowering the headset your soldier is wearing. Its a quick way to lower the volume of your radios.

[SD_BOB 10]

Thankyou for the quick response, that pretty much answers everything.

The 148 and 152 are not equatable to the 343, they have good range and are pretty capable radios (better than the 119 in a lot of ways). The UHF and VHF versions have different antennas modeled in the code (the UHF has better gain for for UHF band, VHF better for VHF band).

This is the conclusion i had come to (bar the UHF/VHF differences) but i hadnt had the chance to test the ranges, as you say the 343 is limited squad comms as IRL. To be fair i dont know why its been adopted so freely, it really is rubbish (well the wireless PTT is pretty ally). But its good to know the 148/152 could be used to extend the range of inter-squad comms if needed.

Again cheers for the response, cant wait to see what improvements are made in the future.

[noubernou 77]

Thankyou for the quick response, that pretty much answers everything.

This is the conclusion i had come to (bar the UHF/VHF differences) but i hadnt had the chance to test the ranges, as you say the 343 is limited squad comms as IRL. To be fair i dont know why its been adopted so freely, it really is rubbish (well the wireless PTT is pretty ally). But its good to know the 148/152 could be used to extend the range of inter-squad comms if needed.

Again cheers for the response, cant wait to see what improvements are made in the future.

We implemented mainly because we dont have yelling for direct speaking. Its a crutch more than anything.

[messiahua 0]

Thats actually a bug in our terrain profiling code where its skipping over the player and sampling behind them one step. It will be fix in future version but for the most part its a fairly edge case scenario. I should update the ticket you posted though with that status.

Thanks a lot! ACRE is awesome

[b00ce 160]

The 152 is not fully implemented, but it is functional, it is comparable to the 148 it its capabilities.

I'm curious, is it both VHF and UHF? Also, what are the features that have yet to be implemented for it?

[NoRailgunner 0]

The AN/PRC-152 multiband radio is a good radio for CO (A2OA) troops and a good choice for radio operators is the AN/PRC-117F wideband radio. :)

Are you going to implement a data send/receive feature eg for GPS (DAGR) coordinates?

[friznit2 350]

... To be fair i dont know why its been adopted so freely, it really is rubbish (well the wireless PTT is pretty ally)....

We implemented mainly because we dont have yelling for direct speaking. Its a crutch more than anything.

Pretty much the answer IRL too. Yelling makes your throat awfully sore after a few days and the budget for strepsils was being hammered, so the MOD procured us some walkie talkies. They're also rather convenient for maintaining low level comms ('chat net') in a vehicle convoy, for example.

The range was required to be deliberately short for COMSEC, as they are not a secure radio. The max range was supposed to be around 500m. However, tests proved that you could eavesdrop out to 3km with off the shelf kit and direction find the remote PTT up to 20km away, which rather defeated the object. Mind you, I don't know anyone who ever used the remote PTT - never could find a good place to put it.

Still, very useful bits of kit, even if they do make your left ear terribly sweaty.

[noubernou 77]

They aren't exactly plaintext though from what I understand, they use an adhoc 802.11x network for communicating (though I believe its only peer to peer, there is no ability for it to route across other devices, which actually would make them a lot more useful, but probably larger and way more expensive). But yea, its like any other wireless device. They are perfectly legal to own and operate as a civilian with out any sort of special radio license in pretty much any country that allows 802.11.

A good article from the Canadian Forces on the 343: http://pubs.drdc.gc.ca/PDFS/unc48/p524740.pdf

[dysta 10]

It is, but wireless network require a terminal, while radio doesn't.

[jaynus 10]

WIP Report Link

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?p=2033885

[ROBINO 0]

Can i make a request?

Can the radios have an 'infinity' power setting?

After testing some of the radios and looking at the picture below - it has become apparent that 'real'life' radios with their limitations are not what everyone wants.

I like SOME of the features of ACRE - such as the normal speech mode (ie talking without radios) - also i like the way the radios are implemented with frequencies and nice voice and sound effects to make it really sound like radio chatter.

However, all the attenuation features are really not wanted - rendering the whole idea of signal power and attenuation/signal loss just an annoyance and something which interferes with the flow of a multiplayer mission.

If the radios had an 'infinity' power setting it would mean that attenuation would be ignored and everyone could play the game they want to play it - either realistically OR with perfect signals.

I KNOW, I KNOW that what i'm suggesting sounds like heresy to some people but I'm only thinking about the many, many times that our missions have become LESS FUN because of comms being lost because of ACRE's modelling of attenuation.

I'd like to pre-emp anyone posting 'just deal with it man' and say to them that they contribute absolutely nothing to this discussion.

the image shows the reaches of 119's signal when the transmitter is the red dot on the AF

(apologies for the image size)

[img ]http://raceriv.com/arma2/test_signal_map.jpg[/img]

Edited October 7, 2011 by Foxhound
watch max image filesize!

[Tonci87 163]

Can i make a request?

Can the radios have an 'infinity' power setting?

After testing some of the radios and looking at the picture below - it has become apparent that 'real'life' radios with their limitations are not what everyone wants.

I like SOME of the features of ACRE - such as the normal speech mode (ie talking without radios) - also i like the way the radios are implemented with frequencies and nice voice and sound effects to make it really sound like radio chatter.

However, all the attenuation features are really not wanted - rendering the whole idea of signal power and attenuation/signal loss just an annoyance and something which interferes with the flow of a multiplayer mission.

If the radios had an 'infinity' power setting it would mean that attenuation would be ignored and everyone could play the game they want to play it - either realistically OR with perfect signals.

I KNOW, I KNOW that what i'm suggesting sounds like heresy to some people but I'm only thinking about the many, many times that our missions have become LESS FUN because of comms being lost because of ACRE's modelling of attenuation.

I'd like to pre-emp anyone posting 'just deal with it man' and say to them that they contribute absolutely nothing to this discussion.

the image shows the reaches of 119's signal when the transmitter is the red dot on the AF

(apologies for the image size)

4.616,86 KB Image size? You are so going to get your butt kicked by a Moderator for this. :p

Oh and by the way:

just deal with it man

If you want perfect signal all the time, then use VON or TS+Whisper

[domokun 515]

LOL that's got to be the biggest image I've EVER seen on these forums :eek:

Seriously though I fully understand your request.

And I think that it is very reasonable and understandable.

I can see why you'd like to compromise some realism yet keep most of the other options.

My guess and, my hope, would be that something like this could easily be changed by change a value(s) in a file somewhere.

Better still, would be an in-game menu that allowed you to change it real-time but I gather that's something quite difficult to accomplish.

It's a shame that some that people are so uncompromising.

If you think about it, any PC game inevitably makes compromises with reality.

So given this, why not offer people the choice?

Provided it doesn't require massive development of course!

We don't want to take away precious dev time from ACRE2...

[noubernou 77]

We have allowed terrain interference to be turned off from day one. I am not going to repeat it because its in our wiki and its been stated a dozen times on how to do it. Distance attenuation still stays though. If you want to get rid of that do what tonci said.

[ROBINO 0]

We have allowed terrain interference to be turned off from day one. I am not going to repeat it because its in our wiki and its been stated a dozen times on how to do it. Distance attenuation still stays though. If you want to get rid of that do what tonci said.

I think you are referring to the API functions. Is that right?

From the wiki I've found:

"

acre_api_fnc_setLossModelScale

Parameters: Float

Example: [0.5] call acre_api_fnc_setLossModelScale;

Return Value: Float

Description: Specify and value between 1.0 and 0. Setting it to 0 means the loss model is disabled, 1 is default.

"

I don't know exactly what the API functions are - how do I get them to work? Do I have to include that line to be executed for everyone in a trigger in the mission? Or is it some kind of console thing?

Much appreciated if anyone can answer :)