Environment :O

[Uberduderofdoomer 10]

I hear the developers talk alot about the environment as one of the main features. What would you like to see pertaining to this? Or at least what do you think Bohemia is actually going to do? When i say the environment, I mean it quite generally (think outside the box!).

Feel free to skip the following:

I think the environment affects warfare to a far greater degree than alot of people realize. For instance in vietnam, the entire war was practically won due to the environment. Or in Russia during WW2 and Napolean. The mediterranean isn't quite as extreme, but it should still take into account alot more than it currently does.

On the semi-feasible side, I would love to see more wildlife, wind effects, hummidity effects on bullet trajectory, coriolis effect, vegetation creeping into some of the more abandoned locations/buildings, accurate moon phases depending on date (which is easy to map for the future, just check out stellarium) which would affect light levels at night, maybe even simple constellations, god rays (the epic graphic effect of next gen games), better window/scope glare, gun jamming and misfire/wearing, faked doppler effect, pseudo fragmentation mapping from explosions, maybe some other things.

On the less feasible/fanatical side, ocean currents and wave force, gun fire echos based on surroundings/openness of area, tire puncturing over sharp objects (if that even happens on large APC wheels), rusting/wear degree options in editor for vehicles (like the health slider bar), dynamic spreading fire and flamethrowers, eclipses, aggressive animals (such as rather large sharks, wild dogs, hell, even dinosaurs for kicks), maybe insect life (bee hives!), better rain effects with wet surfaces, electronic malfunctions in water, working subs that can run into rocks or get beached, physical craters from explosions, chemical weapons, radiation effects and nuke area flattening (or daisy cutter style impacts), mud that can get tanks/vehicles stuck.

On the apex of psychotic end - natural disasters such as tidal waves, earthquakes, floods, mudslides, meteors, ball lightning phenomenons ect. turbulance, extreme weather and storms (which would affect helicopters of course), northern lights on days of high solar activity, radio interference from environment, cosmic background radiation, dynamic diffraction for ocean waves and lasers, atmospheric distortion, carnivorous plants, global warming and bears. Lots of bears.

This could probably fit under ideas, but I meant to highlight specifically the aspect of environment, phenomenons, and factors not commonly taken into account, while expanding on the notion and speculating on as to what the developers meant by environment. Even if they didnt mean bears and global warming exactly.

Edited June 18, 2011 by Uberduderofdoomer

[CameronMcDonald 146]

accurate moon phases depending on date (which is easy to map for the future, just check out stellarium) which would affect light levels at night, maybe even simple constellations,

So... played ArmA 2 lately? Or even ArmA? Hell, even OFP? Ever?

- The night sky has been accurate (i.e. what you see is actually up there) since OFP. You can navigate by the stars, and in OFP, you had to do just that in one mission.

- Moon phases are accurate.

- Since ArmA, the lighting at night has been determined mostly via the moon phase and weather.

coriolis effect

Fuck no, because all I think when I see those two words is "Pripyat" and "bullshit."

You do have some decent suggestions in there, but by and large there's a heck of a lot of dross to wade through.

natural disasters such as tidal waves, earthquakes, floods, mudslides, meteors, ball lightning phenomenons ect. turbulance, extreme weather and storms (which would affect helicopters of course), northern lights on days of high solar activity, radio interference from environment, cosmic background radiation, dynamic diffraction for ocean waves and lasers, atmospheric distortion, carnivorous plants, global warming and bears. Lots of bears.

The nice shiny stuff, sure, but natural disasters? Perhaps too uncommon, unless we're playing Crysis 2.

insect life

Been in since ArmA, to a limited extent.

better window/scope glare

Could be improved, sure. However, try the second mission of the campaign and look west into your Aimpoint. You won't see shite.

Edited June 18, 2011 by CameronMcDonald

[phaeden 0]

I'd love to see seasons! Trees/vegetation changing. Snow effects on terrain. Things like that.

[Uberduderofdoomer 10]

Cameron, the paragraphs 4/5 are not very serious...

[CameronMcDonald 146]

No worries. :) Don't take what I say too seriously - my sarcasm alarm has been permanently burnt out since I made a booboo on the CM forums a while back. :dj:

[NeMeSiS 11]

Cameron, the paragraphs 4/5 are not very serious...

Somewhat confusing since some of those suggestions are already in, and some are easily possible, so not all of them are completely ridiculous. ;)

[Uberduderofdoomer 10]

:D good to know Cameron hehe. I didn't actually know they had accurate star maps! Arma always suprises, thnx.

[-=seany=- 5]

I'd love to see seasons! Trees/vegetation changing. Snow effects on terrain. Things like that.

That would be very nice

[CaRaeLoCo 10]

:D good to know Cameron hehe. I didn't actually know they had accurate star maps! Arma always suprises, thnx.

http://youtu.be/df6-M4iAv_o

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Correct moon phases wrt real world would have been nice, in combination with mission access to system time and system time zone. That would enable us to run a server in real time for the time zone the server is at. It's not that effective in vanilla maps that are relatively close to the equator, but imagine Domination on Thirsk (way up north, in Finland) in real time? :D

But, why would anyone desire a realistic night sky without noticing that it already is realistic? It's even more realistic than you may imagine - if you move the island (by editing it's world config), the night sky will change accordingly - set it to Australia and you don't get to navigate by the northern star anymore, but the southern cross can be used (not as easy though).

What do I want with environment? Probably more severe effects from weather. This is possible to script for Takistan as wind dust in a sandy environment makes perfect sense. In Chernarus (and possibly in A3) this effect doesn't fit as good. Tried making it less severe and more browning, but, nah - not too happy about it.

Weather is a major obstacle in warfare, but for us it's a mere graphical neat effect. Personally I would love to see physiological effects on the body (freezing gives the occasional shakes, keep in motion to reduce) but I think this is too hardcore for most. Or model slippery muddy ground after rain etc.

I've done face camo that washes off (simply cycling through the camo faces) with the rain. Kinda cool, but yes, pretty useless too :D It was fun doing it though. So this is possible

[CameronMcDonald 146]

I've done face camo that washes off (simply cycling through the camo faces) with the rain. Kinda cool, but yes, pretty useless too It was fun doing it though. So this is possibl

Hah, awesome idea!

[phaeden 0]

It would be cool if mud/snow affected movement (men and vehicles). Heavy rain could affect accuracy. Heat/cold would be great for getting tired faster.

[rye1 21]

Rain doesn't affect POI. Myth!

If heat/cold, you mean temperatures? If so, that should affect accuracy - or at least range.

[phaeden 0]

Having tried to shoot in a heavy downpour, I can tell you that rain actually does affect the ability to aim and hit a target accurately. The rifle fires the same but the ability to see with water coming at you horizontally can make it a real pain to locate a target. Rain can also affect accuracy of target identification (as in determining what type of vehicle that is down in the valley).

Semper Fi

[rye1 21]

Oh that kind of accuracy. :D

[2nd ranger 282]

I'm big on sound, so in addition to a better general sound engine, what would be totally awesome is if sound was affected by the weather. Like how things sound sharper on a winter's night, and you can hear things from farther away due to the temperature. That would be atmospheric as all giddy-up.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

For sounds, I just wish the engine was a bit more flexible. For what I'm trying to do now (sound of rain hammering on the vehicle when sitting inside (turns off in 3rd person view), just like flightsim cockpit rain), I wanted to do it with vehicles as an addon, but they don't support ambient parameters. Trying to do it in ambient as an addon, it doesn't support camPos parameter. So I'm left with mission based sounds. CfgSound would have been preferred so I could use stereo files, but that doesn't support loops. So I'm stuck with (what has been quite unreliable in the past) trigger based sounds, but of course those doesn't support stereo, but does support perfect loops.

Then there is no ingame volume controls for sounds, so I have to move the sound triggers up and down based on rain intensity. I would even liked to have EQ'ing of sounds, even as a partial cue to position, rather than the extreme use of volume (can't hear any of the sound on left ear of sound is right of you) and tone that one down a bit.

[ht-57 0]

How 'bout an environment where I don't have to apply mods to make it look right? ie "no Blur"

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

Some wise Russian actually scripted a fully-working tornado into OFP. It was epic. I've still got the .zip file, but I'm not good enough at scripting to get it to work in ArmA.

[Uberduderofdoomer 10]

But, why would anyone desire a realistic night sky without noticing that it already is realistic?

I probably read a long long long time ago that there was this sort of thing, and forgotten, and then one day thought, "gee this would be great idea!"

Thanks for the vid explaining how to find the north star CaRao, I was about to ask my astronomy teacher lol.

Great ideas in general, and I disagree Carl, facecamo is actually pretty important. It may not make it much harder to spot someone, but headshots would be much more difficult with such lower contrast. Pretty crafty idea you had with it washing off.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

For me face camo works excellent in Chernarus. It's the same'ish color, and makes it easy to hide in forest undergrowth when up close. A white face will shine at you, but breaking it up similar with the uniform hides it.

For the same reason I don't think any uniform camo makes too much of a difference in Takistan compared to Chernarus. In real life, they make you blend better with the background at distance, but in game you pretty much stand out at distance no matter the uniform. So in my view, in the game, camo (face and uniform) works a lot better when up close, using shadows and hiding in undergrowth of forested areas.

The face wash script (scripts\RainCollector.sqf), you would need to setup identities beforehand though, and name the units (or change script) accordingly:

private ["_i","_id","_face","_unit"];
if (nCurrentCamo == 0) exitWith {};
_unit = [];
nRainAmount = nRainAmount - (rain * 0.025); //TODO: Reduce speed once mission lasts longer. 0.025 is just for debug.
if (round (nRainAmount) < nCurrentCamo) then {
nCurrentCamo = nCurrentCamo - 1;
for "_i" from 0 to count aFaces - 1 do {
	_id = (aFaces select _i) select 0; //"idLI1"
	_unit = toArray _id;
	_unit set [0,objNull]; //for deletion
	_unit set [1, 117]; //change letter d to letter u
	_unit = _unit - [objNull];
	_unit = toString _unit; //"uLI1"
	_face = (aFaces select _i) select 1; //"Face14"
	if (nCurrentCamo > 0) then {
		_face = _face + "_camo" + format ["%1",nCurrentCamo]; //"Face14_camo5"
	};
	_unit = call compile _unit;
	_unit setFace _face;
sleep 0.4;
};
};
sleep (20 + random 10);
[] execVM "scripts\RainCollector.sqf";

[OChristie 0]

The Coriolis Effect is very relevent to Marksman/Sniper's for long range target aqquisition and it is a massive factor in engaging a target at long ranges with medium too large character weapon systems.

[Electricleash 133]

I would say that rivers and streams would have a major effect upon gameplay... at least strategically.

Being that, historically, capturing bridges has been one of the key strategic objectives throughout military conflict.

Yes I know that BIS games have bridges... but for the most part their inclusion becomes soley aesthetic in nature, due to the fact that troops and vehicles can just skirt round them.

[avibird 1 155]

I hear the developers talk alot about the environment as one of the main features. What would you like to see pertaining to this? Or at least what do you think Bohemia is actually going to do? When i say the environment, I mean it quite generally (think outside the box!).

Feel free to skip the following:

I think the environment affects warfare to a far greater degree than alot of people realize. For instance in vietnam, the entire war was practically won due to the environment. Or in Russia during WW2 and Napolean. The mediterranean isn't quite as extreme, but it should still take into account alot more than it currently does.

On the semi-feasible side, I would love to see more wildlife, wind effects, hummidity effects on bullet trajectory, coriolis effect, vegetation creeping into some of the more abandoned locations/buildings, accurate moon phases depending on date (which is easy to map for the future, just check out stellarium) which would affect light levels at night, maybe even simple constellations, god rays (the epic graphic effect of next gen games), better window/scope glare, gun jamming and misfire/wearing, faked doppler effect, pseudo fragmentation mapping from explosions, maybe some other things.

On the less feasible/fanatical side, ocean currents and wave force, gun fire echos based on surroundings/openness of area, tire puncturing over sharp objects (if that even happens on large APC wheels), rusting/wear degree options in editor for vehicles (like the health slider bar), dynamic spreading fire and flamethrowers, eclipses, aggressive animals (such as rather large sharks, wild dogs, hell, even dinosaurs for kicks), maybe insect life (bee hives!), better rain effects with wet surfaces, electronic malfunctions in water, working subs that can run into rocks or get beached, physical craters from explosions, chemical weapons, radiation effects and nuke area flattening (or daisy cutter style impacts), mud that can get tanks/vehicles stuck.

On the apex of psychotic end - natural disasters such as tidal waves, earthquakes, floods, mudslides, meteors, ball lightning phenomenons ect. turbulance, extreme weather and storms (which would affect helicopters of course), northern lights on days of high solar activity, radio interference from environment, cosmic background radiation, dynamic diffraction for ocean waves and lasers, atmospheric distortion, carnivorous plants, global warming and bears. Lots of bears.

This could probably fit under ideas, but I meant to highlight specifically the aspect of environment, phenomenons, and factors not commonly taken into account, while expanding on the notion and speculating on as to what the developers meant by environment. Even if they didnt mean bears and global warming exactly.

That would be nice if a game could have EVERYTHING in it but I have been saying this since OFP days "You can't put 10lbs of shit in a 5lb bag" Yes since OFP-ARMA1-ARMA2-ARMAOA BOHEMIA has put a little more shit in the bag each time. What you are talking about we will need a bigger bag. BOHEMIA only has a 6.5 lb bag and right now the AI still can't drive that great at times. Just my two cents.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

That would be nice if a game could have EVERYTHING in it but I have been saying this since OFP days "You can't put 10lbs of shit in a 5lb bag" Yes since OFP-ARMA1-ARMA2-ARMAOA BOHEMIA has put a little more shit in the bag each time. What you are talking about we will need a bigger bag. BOHEMIA only has a 6.5 lb bag and right now the AI still can't drive that great at times. Just my two cents.

Lol you need to get yourself one of them black hole bags. Holds infinite amount of stuff. :cool:

Btw, the bag analogy is not very good. You're implying that the technology capacity is fixed, but it's always increasing as hardware improves, software is optimized, etc...