Player Leveling

[Americanel 10]

So how long does it take before you can do a spec op mission then? First you have to learn to shoot, then you have to get better fatique. when you are on the level of physical fitness and weapon skills you can finally play that mission you been longing for?? Hope you dont do a reinstall so you have to do all that one more time...

No, no good ideas at all imo. Maybe suitable for a mission, but not for the default game...

no you have a file tha same savemission. and think is ok for do in pvp, personal, i never play single missle or campaign in arma2

[Big Dawg KS 6]

So how long does it take before you can do a spec op mission then? First you have to learn to shoot, then you have to get better fatique. when you are on the level of physical fitness and weapon skills you can finally play that mission you been longing for?? Hope you dont do a reinstall so you have to do all that one more time...

No, no good ideas at all imo. Maybe suitable for a mission, but not for the default game...

IMO it could be implemented in a way that is completely controllable by the mission designer. For example, it could be saved within a campaign save file, or saved/loaded to specific units via script commands.

[MrXToTheN 10]

No, no, niet, nein, never! I don't like it in CoD, BF or any other game. ArmA doesn't need it especially!

[CarlGustaffa 4]

There is a lot of what I expect to be pretty hard coded things that need to change in order for any of this to be even remotely possible:

1) Write access to the config during playtime. Say we want to simulate accuracy skill (or better squeeze control skill), we might have to change dispersion on the fly. I see no scripted way of doing this without too much overhead cost (if at all possible), without any sort of addon that defines each level, where the level would have to be reflected by variations on every gun. Simply, too much work. Write access would be needed, which sounds like a dangerous endeavor to me.

2) Same with stamina to affect speed; with the current engine it can't be done, or we wouldn't simply collapse in ACE. It might be possible with Arma3 engine, who knows.

3) Also if we have a steadiness skill, at low levels we'd have to have something like JCove Lite's sway and breath method (figure of 8's), and then lower the size of it as your skill grows. Not something you do using scripts.

4) To set these skills, we could simply (yeah, right :D) allow mission to use setSkill array even on human players, although I haven't tested yet if every one of them works as advertised for AI.

I guess it could be used even in certain coop missions, where you pick a specific character with emphasis on certain skills. The problem I have now, is that if we turn down AI accuracy we become gods, and if we turn if up the firefight is shorter with way too much killing. Being able to control how good a certain character is, we might be able to use crappy AI (now everybody can be crappy) and have realistic firefights where nobody hits anything (with small arms fire).

But in coop (compared to singleplayer), some skills become weird. Ok, so you can't report something you see because the spotting distance is too far. In coop you just say it, totally ignoring the skill.

Like i.e. the mission Blood, Sweat and Tears in Arma1 would be a good candidate for role played characters rather than everything determined by player skills. Would be awesome if you could choose between characters of different strengths.

Then again, it all sounds mighty complicated. Not something you just implement, rather you'd have to plan for it from the beginning. Which OFP/Arma never was. FONV is my preferred modern (non scifi) RPG, with a shoooter element. Arma is my preferred tactical shooter with all the refinements that FONV lack. Personally I would LOVE to see them merged, but I doubt it will happen :D

[Laqueesha 474]

I think it might be cool for arma 3 to have a MP leveling system.

No, it will not be cool at all for 'arma 3' [sic] to have a leveling system. 'Nuff said, end of story. :rolleyes:

[hibrid 10]

why do I have a feeling that in this mmo filled word people starting to develop a need for grinding :))

there is skill in arma, and it is Your skill :)

a beginner player has to practice leading shots, a first timer usually cant hit anything. What am i saying usually beginners dont even see the enemy for days :))

or it was just me? :))

if anyone wants to measure his or her skill with others, play against him. As soon as it happends, killin 5000 more ai-s in the past wont help i'm sure :)

[Big Dawg KS 6]

There is a lot of what I expect to be pretty hard coded things that need to change in order for any of this to be even remotely possible:

1) Write access to the config during playtime. Say we want to simulate accuracy skill (or better squeeze control skill), we might have to change dispersion on the fly. I see no scripted way of doing this without too much overhead cost (if at all possible), without any sort of addon that defines each level, where the level would have to be reflected by variations on every gun. Simply, too much work. Write access would be needed, which sounds like a dangerous endeavor to me.

Fired EH, set random velocity. :rolleyes:

But yea, I don't think any of these things would be too much for BIS to implement as they are more or less tweaks of currently existing systems. The more challenging part is the experience gaining and storing of character stats. There are also many design issues to consider, like how you gain experience (ideally it would be a mix of core engine feature & scripted).

[LANCERZz 10]

This idea is not going to work, thus I have given up on it within the first few pages of this thread. So please stop posting hate like a bunch of kids.

A leveling system does not mean this game is now like BF or CoD. I hope this game stays clear of being like those two. I suggested a simple idea, and I am taking a lot of flak for it now. I really don't see why you guys even post. Most of these post are not even constructive, they are just insults or trying to make fun of me. When I posted this I had no thoughts of BF or CoD yet you guys have to suggest or compare this idea to making arma like BF or CoD. I am not a Developer at BIS, thus I am not saying "this will be in the game". You guys are acting like BIS announced this feature in their game... I honestly thought the Arma community was more mature than the BF or CoD community, but I was wrong. Just look at what you guys post.

Unfortunately, most of the ArmA community are a bunch of close minded elitists who would everything to keep their game from "the masses". This is why they expect BI to keep making the same Eastern Europe theater games and scoff at the idea of something *shudder* different with the plausible future plot. It's why any time a mechanic used in games that have seen much more success than arma is suggested to be used in arma, the person who thought if this is demonized by the community. These are the elitists who think that ArmA is the perfect game, yet complain constantly about things they don't like in it, then complain more when something different is done to it.

There is no point in trying to post any new ideas in these forums. Unless you're suggesting adding something that ACE already adds, or bringing back something from an older game, you are guaranteed to meet the nerd rage of everyone in the forum

[Innomadic 10]

I don't agree with leveling...i mean why bother? Leveling is for a game that is 100% balanced with a list of set maps which record xp. Since Armas ME goes against that whole train of thought, i don't see why it needs to be incorporated.

What the OP is suggesting sounds like what RR tried to do, and we all know how much of a rampaging success that was...

Edited June 10, 2011 by Innomadic

[paecmaker 23]

I would like leveling in this way.

I say that everyone starts as privates and is pretty neutral, they can lot but arent experts in any. For example if you want to be a medic, you have to earn it. As a normal soldier you can heal squad mates and if you do it good enough you can be promoted to a medic that heals quicker and can do more advanced things.

And about different weapons, what about everyone can use all weapons but only those that are more specialized in that jind of weapon does it better. For example a sniper rifle.

You are a "normal soldier and tries to shoot with a large sniper rifle, the aim is constantly moving and its hard, to be better you have to be more experienced with that kind of weapons.

What I say is that there are no unlockable system, everybody can use all weapons but they are differently good at it.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

This thread needs to die.

As of today, all players must get paper and pencil #2.

Start checking off all of your kills from this point, and in a year, we will then campare scores for "top dog".

[AstroMan 10]

^haha, thats the best Idea so far. I agree

[demonized 20]

This thread needs to die.

As of today, all players must get paper and pencil #2.

Start checking off all of your kills from this point, and in a year, we will then campare scores for "top dog".

+1 :D

@LANCERZzZz

there are no elitist closeminded people here, there are just us that do not want to turn Arma3 into anything mainstream because we like/love Arma as it is, a milsim played by mostly adults, former or presently military persons, or fans of the military way.

not a mainstream game for the dumbed down masses.

implementing leveling, GTA stats collections, achievements etc will only lead to dumbing down the core of the gameplay.

if we wanted that, then we go play COD or BF or most likely BF3 in the future, wich is great games for their purpose.

The purpose of Arma is to play a military game, where weapons, vehicles and skills are based on mission not on the person.

however the skills to use any equipment given lies on the user itself ofc, but that is based on personal real life "skill" of arma equipment usage.

but anyway, repeating myself and many other "elitists" as you call us, want leveling? go play COD or BF..

[Big Dawg KS 6]

The purpose of Arma is to play a military game, where weapons, vehicles and skills are based on mission not on the person.

however the skills to use any equipment given lies on the user itself ofc, but that is based on personal real life "skill" of arma equipment usage.

:raisebrow:

I thought the purpose of ArmA was to play however you want to play. At least that's what BIS seems to think. :j:

I like the idea of character skills/abilities. Currently the only differences in ability is limited to things like inventory size, whether you can heal, etc., but those are defined by the unit types. IMO if this were altered to be part of a character skillset that's applicable to any unit that would be pretty cool, especially if you could create campaigns where you can expand your skillset. Things like physical fitness and weapon proficiency could be a part of this. It's kind of unrealistic that there's practically no variation in these things between characters in ArmA, where IRL you get people of all different skill levels.

---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------

there are no elitist closeminded people here, there are just us that do not want to turn Arma3 into anything mainstream because we like/love Arma as it is, a milsim played by mostly adults, former or presently military persons, or fans of the military way.

Sorry to say this but that outlook is somewhat elitist. There are people here who enjoy the series simply because of the scope, freedom, and realism, not because they are military fanboys. I don't believe that stereotype is accurate.

[liquidpinky 11]

:raisebrow:

I thought the purpose of ArmA was to play however you want to play. At least that's what BIS seems to think. :j:

I like the idea of character skills/abilities. Currently the only differences in ability is limited to things like inventory size, whether you can heal, etc., but those are defined by the unit types. IMO if this were altered to be part of a character skillset that's applicable to any unit that would be pretty cool, especially if you could create campaigns where you can expand your skillset. Things like physical fitness and weapon proficiency could be a part of this. It's kind of unrealistic that there's practically no variation in these things between characters in ArmA, where IRL you get people of all different skill levels.

---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------

Sorry to say this but that outlook is somewhat elitist. There are people here who enjoy the series simply because of the scope, freedom, and realism, not because they are military fanboys. I don't believe that stereotype is accurate.

I agree, there are some aspects that can be levelled up and will actually add more realism. Like fitness for example, it is something you have to work on in real life.

As far as gun skill, well the aiming part you are learning realtime while using the gun anyway. But maybe weapon familiarity can come into for reloading, swapping or indeed maybe improve your time switching equipment on the fly. Again those are real possibilities as you would improve your use of a weapon through practice with it.

Hell mission makers could even use practice scenarios as beginnings to their missions.

Ideally you would have your own personal stats for pupping it or MP games where you aren't restricted, but these could be overridden by mission makers if it effected their mission scenarios.

I am not for pointless levelling systems, but something that is realistic wont hurt.

[demonized 20]

okey smartass, lets see.

:raisebrow:

I thought the purpose of ArmA was to play however you want to play. At least that's what BIS seems to think. :j:

of course it is, that is why domination missions have a ranked/leveling kind, chernarus life has rpg and stats and whatever.

its totally up to yhe mission creator to create whatever he desires.

but the total aspect of any mission is war of some kind, with a very few exempts.

war has armys or insurgents, war is military.

I like the idea of character skills/abilities. Currently the only differences in ability is limited to things like inventory size, whether you can heal, etc., but those are defined by the unit types. IMO if this were altered to be part of a character skillset that's applicable to any unit that would be pretty cool, especially if you could create campaigns where you can expand your skillset. Things like physical fitness and weapon proficiency could be a part of this. It's kind of unrealistic that there's practically no variation in these things between characters in ArmA, where IRL you get people of all different skill levels.

Again, its up to the mission maker to create this, do not force it upon players outside the game..

and really, how long would it take to script a repeated action to gain god level?

So the stats would be seriously useless and just a curiosity, leveling would be a joke.

Sorry to say this but that outlook is somewhat elitist. There are people here who enjoy the series simply because of the scope, freedom, and realism, not because they are military fanboys. I don't believe that stereotype is accurate.

fine, i agree with the last argument, "fans of military" to be a wrong expression, but anyone who plays arma is playing it for its military units, wether rebel or official army.

they are playing them for the military vehicles and the weapons.

they are playing it for the wars or battles created.

dont tell me you play arma because you like to drive a Coyota around on a big map, or act as busdriver with the civ module active on chernarus??

And as i said,

played by mostly adults

still, arma is the civilian version of VBS, its primary focus is to act as a mil sim, with the added freedom for anyone to create anything they ever want, again like domination or any other mission that have stats, leveling or otherwise such rpg elements.

adding this kiddi stuff for a shooter, will also attract more kidz, wich in turn will make public server handling a chore, and eventually make anyone wanting a good game of arma to be forced into a clan and off the public marked, wich in turn will keep arma secluded in the group not on the public marked, reaching thos wanting a "serious" game to play.

you want leveling? create it yourself for your missions, or go play COD or BF.

i will oppose any attempt to this being forced upon all of us, and many like me will do the same for similar or their own reasons.

Edit: i will however support scripting commands or software that can be freely used to achive leveling or stats for those that choose to in their own missions.

even OP realised the error of this, and canceled his own suggestion..

you are kindof like the left wing claiming us "elitists" to be "racists" for evey thing we oppose that fucks up everyday life for the majority.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Demonized

[zooloo75 834]

This thread is now about whales.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Again, its up to the mission maker to create this, do not force it upon players outside the game..

and really, how long would it take to script a repeated action to gain god level?

So the stats would be seriously useless and just a curiosity, leveling would be a joke.

It's not possible since those things are all hardcoded. It needs to be implemented into the engine. And implementing it into the engine doesn't necessarily force it upon anyone. I have said in previous posts that it could be controlled by the mission makers. I imagine it could be tied to identities, so you could use setIdentity to load & save a character's stats on specific units (and save them to a campaign savefile so they persist throughout campaign missions). Otherwise it could be randomly generated based on the unit's already present skill setting each time the mission is loaded/initialized.

Obviously any new feature implemented into ArmA needs to be flexible enough for modders & mission makers to use or not use as they prefer. Don't make the mistake of thinking that I'm not aware of this, otherwise I will have no choice but to think you are being blinded by elitism.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Big Dawg KS

[GPSpector 10]

Why all those shooter fans want to have those ridiculous stats/medals/ranking etc in every game? Lonewolf-syndrom or other complexes?

Isn't it challenging enough to finish the mission with all of the teams+buddies alive and back in base?

If the mission is too easy try to change the parameters or ask the mission makers for more challenging versions. ;)

It adds to the feeling of immersion.

I prefer Sim-Combat games where I feel like I have a career and my character is improving with skills, not just completing 1 unattached mission after another. Also, as long as I am playing a soldier in an existing army (such as U.S. Army or Russian Army), I would like to earn Awards and Ranks that those services issued.

I would also like to see a Combat Sim acknowledge the players age as time goes by, and allow the the player generate new campaigns after completing one if they wish to continue their career, all while gaining Promotions and Awards that stay with the player until chosen to retire or is KIA.

This really is not asking so much since IL-2 did it as well as many of the even older MicroProse Sims did it.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Assume setSkill array could be written to player character in a way that it had effect. Hell, it could even be configured as part of player profile and activated via missions that wanted it. The idea being that you have x number of points to put into your various skills, just like a typical RPG. The current skills are as follows:

aimingAccuracy

aimingShake

aimingSpeed

endurance

spotDistance

spotTime

courage

reloadSpeed

commanding

general

So, my questions are:

1) What skills are missing in that list? Could be anything from sprint speed to pain tolerance.

2) What would be useful applications of the various items? Note that the various aiming skills could be mission specific to separate various weapon types or families. Like, you're an excellent sniper but will have a hard time acquiring an IR target using a Stinger.

This is of course all just speculation, and I don't really expect any of this to be implemented for a while.

[kylania 568]

It adds to the feeling of immersion.

I prefer Sim-Combat games where I feel like I have a career and my character is improving with skills, not just completing 1 unattached mission after another. Also, as long as I am playing a soldier in an existing army (such as U.S. Army or Russian Army), I would like to earn Awards and Ranks that those services issued.

I would also like to see a Combat Sim acknowledge the players age as time goes by, and allow the the player generate new campaigns after completing one if they wish to continue their career, all while gaining Promotions and Awards that stay with the player until chosen to retire or is KIA.

This really is not asking so much since IL-2 did it as well as many of the even older MicroProse Sims did it.

That's all well and fine in a game campaign and where multiplayer is entirely generic and you're always the same lone wolf superman every time you play.

However in ArmA, a military simulator, you are not the same generic lone wolf superman every time, you play a different part based on what unit you slot up as. There's no connection between the name you play as and the unit you're playing as. So why would your sniping experience with one unit apply to the pilot you're playing in next mission?

This just isn't a ranking up skilling up type of game and I'd hope that BIS wouldn't waste development time making it a console style self esteem dispenser when they could be adding more features and abilities to the engine instead.

[GPSpector 10]

That's all well and fine in a game campaign and where multiplayer is entirely generic and you're always the same lone wolf superman every time you play.

However in ArmA, a military simulator, you are not the same generic lone wolf superman every time, you play a different part based on what unit you slot up as. There's no connection between the name you play as and the unit you're playing as. So why would your sniping experience with one unit apply to the pilot you're playing in next mission?

This just isn't a ranking up skilling up type of game and I'd hope that BIS wouldn't waste development time making it a console style self esteem dispenser when they could be adding more features and abilities to the engine instead.

You just described why I do not play MP.

Seems Arma tries to be as real as possible and yet you just described what makes consoles different from PCs. You are aware that in real life, even though Service Members do not join to earn Medals and Ranks, they are still awarded them for their training and accomplishments.

So, my question to you is, do you want Arma to be realistic or just a game that could be ported over to console and remain arcade-like with no connection to each mission?

I prefer it to be a Simulation of a possible Military Career, but sadly, it is not. Why would I play past 1 mission if my un-named player is not going to get better or even have the chance to have the squad progress in the war? Certainly not to just play yet another unconnected battle in a different location and different goals. All to what purpose?

Just so you know, I've served in the U.S. Air Force and that's why I prefer the career aspect. It gives you an avatar you can actually care about, especially if there are no re-spawns.

Edited July 24, 2011 by GPSpector

[dmarkwick 261]

I hope someone murders this guy if this inferior retarded idea ever touches this game.

I'd like to think I'm the guy who never says "perhaps you should go.... Play CoD/BF/Whatever..."

But seriously, you should fuck off from this forum. We don't need types like you with your pathetically impotent rage couched in the most grotesque offensive manner.

And as for around one third of the replying posters here - you're not too much better. Maybe the idea isn't popular. Maybe the idea isn't workable. But if you cannot express your opinions in the form of reasoned argument, then perhaps you should consider whether ridiculing the OP is the best thing you can contribute, and if it is, then what type of person you are.

Some of you guys ought to be ashamed of yourselves. The reasonable, thought-out posters really stand out compared to the rest. I see regular names posting the same shit.

As well, of course, as regular names posting more constructive texts.

[GPSpector 10]

It seems that many of the posters here favor the arcade idea of just get in the game, grab what ever weapon you want and start running around and shooting, without having to take the time to go through training and face the possibility of having their performance rated and tracked.

I'm guessing that many do not want Ranks or Awards because those are things that are earned with achievement and hard work as well as taking time, not just given away. Life is not easy, I would like a Combat sim to reflect that.

---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 PM ----------

Assume setSkill array could be written to player character in a way that it had effect. Hell, it could even be configured as part of player profile and activated via missions that wanted it. The idea being that you have x number of points to put into your various skills, just like a typical RPG. The current skills are as follows:

aimingAccuracy

aimingShake

aimingSpeed

endurance

spotDistance

spotTime

courage

reloadSpeed

commanding

general

So, my questions are:

1) What skills are missing in that list? Could be anything from sprint speed to pain tolerance.

2) What would be useful applications of the various items? Note that the various aiming skills could be mission specific to separate various weapon types or families. Like, you're an excellent sniper but will have a hard time acquiring an IR target using a Stinger.

This is of course all just speculation, and I don't really expect any of this to be implemented for a while.

I like your idea. I would think that the best way to improve your skills would be through Basic Training for your Initial Skill Points, Advance Training to improve certain Skill Points and through repeated actions, such as running a lot will allow you to run further, shooting accuracy improve with fewer misses.

[NoRailgunner 0]

GPSpector BIS military games are not limited to some sort of "career tunnel" or only shoot'n'scoot/jump'n'run fun. :)

Its more about that the player himself gets better than relying on some sort of magic level-ups or extra power/super weapons. IIRC most games do use a very simple career system that mostly award the player but don't "punish"/disrate him in the same way.

Imho we would need a real good AAR feature, some sort of advanced assessment factors and a reliable database which updates player stats constantly. For SP/LAN and clans above mentioned features can be a great option but for public MP I doubt that one can stop the (kill)stat cheating/hacking. Most public players will mostly/only focus on ranking up + achievements/medals and forget about teamplay or finishing mission as a whole team/group.