Inventory improvement suggestions and discussion.

[dmarkwick 261]

For the sake of gameplay i would like to see walking and jogging speed be kept the same, otherwise you get huge problems with the AI and having to wait for eachother in MP/some people having to run at times to keep up.

However, other animations like getting up/down/over could be slowed down a bit according to encumbrance.

Obviously a stamina penalty is needed(for all animations would be best i think), and personally i would also like to see the dexterity bound to encumbrance instead of the weapon you are holding to simulate lower agility.

I disagree with more visible, a man's silhouet doesnt really change if he has an extra M4 on his back, however more audible does make sense IMO.

An extra M4 wouldn't represent a lot of encumbrance, and therefore wouldn't represent a lot more visibility, but a full rucksack would. And a guy with a full rucksack trying to run... would definately be more visible I think.

I believe the general idea should be that there is always a payoff/price.

[NeMeSiS 11]

An extra M4 wouldn't represent a lot of encumbrance, and therefore wouldn't represent a lot more visibility, but a full rucksack would. And a guy with a full rucksack trying to run... would definately be more visible I think.

I believe the general idea should be that there is always a payoff/price.

I guess i am convinced, as long as the visibilty penalty would not be too large.

[-Paladin- 10]

An extra M4 wouldn't represent a lot of encumbrance, and therefore wouldn't represent a lot more visibility, but a full rucksack would. And a guy with a full rucksack trying to run... would definately be more visible I think.

I believe the general idea should be that there is always a payoff/price.

Running makes you always visible with few stuff or with lots of stuff.

Running is a bad thing moving slow is good keeps you stealth.

You move always slow to not be detected, but this is maybe to RL for the gamers that wants to PEW PEW all the time.

For the sake of game play i would like to see walking and jogging speed be kept the same, otherwise you get huge problems with the AI and having to wait for eachother in MP/some people having to run at times to keep up.

However, other animations like getting up/down/over could be slowed down a bit according to encumbrance.

Obviously a stamina penalty is needed(for all animations would be best i think), and personally i would also like to see the dexterity bound to encumbrance instead of the weapon you are holding to simulate lower agility.

I disagree with more visible, a man's silhouet doesnt really change if he has an extra M4 on his back, however more audible does make sense IMO.

The Curse of team play. You have to relay and wait for each other.

[Steakslim 1]

Could do it like ACE and effect the stamina, reducing the amount of time you can run before needing to rest, and have a slight penalty on movement speed when running/jogging.

[mrcash2009 0]

I agree with all points in this thread with Stamina / Weight based system 100% :)

[Steakslim 1]

I must say though that if some crazy reason BIS actually incorperates such a system, that in no way do they prevent the user from being able to sprint and run when fatigued. Like in ACE you should be able to run up until your guy just flat out drops. None of this, OH MY LEGS ARE TIRED I WALK NOW, and then you're getting shot at and you have to walk away from being harmed. That annoys the ever loving piss out of me in most games because they tend to use that very stamina model since the dark ages of fps.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Steakslim

[mrcash2009 0]

Or there's some kind of system linked to difficulty settings / options.

[High Tower 10]

Now with it being said that you can change uniforms why couldn't that include a selection tactical vests. Each vest holding a different number of mags and gernades. I was able to stuff 14 5.56 clips, and a few 9mm clips in the vest I used. Then you have some straps to hang gernades. As an option you have a backpack were you can stuff with everything else.

This is were weight would come into effect. And to add to "OH MY LEGS ARE TIRED I WALK NOW" I agree with you. It would be cool if adrenaline was put into effect. Not like other games were time slows down but when you are being shot at you have the ability to run till you pass out.

These are just a few ideas that may or may not work out. Let me know what you think.

[Steakslim 1]

Doesn't even have to be adrenaline....just leave us with the option to continue running if your character hasn't collapsed yet from fatigue, and not force us into a walking speed until you "recharge". Granted BIS has never even gone anywhere near this, and neither has the community itself in it's addons, I'm just expressing my hatred for that particular stamina system. I hate it like Walt Disney hated Jews.

[Tom1 10]

The current system is good, you just slow down when tired. A weight system would be nice to determain how much you can carry and how tired you get how fast, but in ACE you just randomly collapse and this could do with a lot of work.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I think instead of slots, they should move on to somekind of weight system, which would also affect the character's movement. Why limit it only to a certain amount (slots)? In real life you could practically carry as many rifles as you want and shove magazines into your undies, your sleeves and your mouth.

In real life the uncomfortableness of doing so would severely hinder your actions as a soldier in a way that cannot be portrayed for obvious reasons.

How I would do it:

1) As OP says to use slots but with much greater variation than what we currently have. The table I setup looks something like:

Item                        Size
Pistol clip                 1x2
Grenades                    1x2
Submachinegun (9mm)         1x3 or 2x3
Assault rifle (5.56)        2x3
Battle rifle (7.62)         3x3
5 rnd 7.62 sniper ammo      3x1 per 5 rnd
Heavy sniper rifle (12.7mm) 4x2
SAW 200 rnd                 4x3
SAW 100 rnd                 3x3
MG 100 rnd                  5x3
MG 50 rnd                   2x3
12.7 25 rnd                 4x4
40mm GL 10 rnd              4x4
Compass                     1x1
SOFLAM AN/PEQ-1 LD          2x3
Spotter scope               2x4
CLU                         4x2
PG-7 Rockets (small)        2x4
PG-7VR/MAAWS/SMAW           2x5
Javelin/Dragon/Metis        3x6
All AA Missiles             1x7
Anti Tank Mine              3x3

All items also have weight of course.

Pouches allows flexibility in the construct, but forces realistic limitations on the battlefield. I.e. an archetype Rifleman can be used to setup an Engineer, Ammo Bearer for various tasks, Assistant Gunner, Rifleman or whatever - by configuring the pouches as per what is legal to do for that archetype. Poch definitions I have:

Pouch name                  Size
Ammo pouch, mini            1x2
Ammo pouch, medium          2x3
Ammo pouch, large           3x3
Gunner pouch, small         3x3
Gunner pouch, medium        5x3
Gunner pouch, big           4x4
Rocket pouch, fixed size    1x6 + 2x8 + 1x6
Equipment pouch, small      2x2
Equipment pouch, big        2x3
Left hand                   Special
Right hand                  Special

The medium and large ammo pouch (3 units tall) will combine to allow sharing of space if archetype allows certain positionings.

Preset vest configurations where the pouches are used. The vest/suit configurations I have so far is:

Officer/Squad Leader
Team Leader/Grenadier
Rifleman vest (Several classes)
Gunner vest (SAW and MG)
AT Specialist/Heavy Support
Sniper/Scout/FO/FAC
Ghillie Suit

Examples of how it would turn out:

* So I join a game and pick/get Rifleman, a highly configurable type. I can change out six of my rifle ammo pouches into two 3x3 100 rnd gunner pouches - this makes me an assistant SAW gunner (term exists).

* I join as an AT specialist (not an M136 Rifleman), and by looking at the slots above, the weapon I choose dictates how much ammo I can store in the rocket pouch.

* Can I lay mines as a regular soldier? Sure, even if you don't have inventory slots that allows mines, you can drag from your backpack and put them into your hands. Weapon now goes on back

All the archetypes have their own bonuses and drawbacks. I.e. the Squad Leader have limited slot locations for ammo pouches, but can choose a lot more equipment. But the shape of the layout prevents me from carrying a SOFLAM on body, while a scout may get room for the SOFLAM but have less room total for other equipment.

It should be flexible enough so that we can define all this stuff in description.ext to get what we need based on a per mission basis. Some missions may be very free and i.e. only limit the number of Ghillie setups, while other missions are extremely strict to accurately simulate a specific force. The mission maker has all the controls at his hands, if he chooses to use them.

The archetype you choose and how you set him up in game, will affect stamina, weight (->endurance), and aural noise levels. Dress up like a ten ton monster truck, then be prepared to sound like one and suffer the penalties.

The above seems pretty natural and not subject to wild objections, compared to earlier attempts of creating a "controlled game" by forcing non game restrictions down peoples throat. What you can actually carry (on body, rucksack is another subject) is completely dependent on the gear you have on you. Found a 200 rnd SAW box? Try stowing that in your regular infantry gear - it just won't fit, but you can put it in your ruck or carry it in hand.

Maybe this is going too far away from gaming and into role playing, but hey, this is how I would have done it if everything I had to please were my own desires :) Relax, I don't imagine Arma3 going this deep into it.

[5LEvEN 11]

Weight and slots should be used. Slots would be based on the gear you are wearing, and maximum weight capacity will have to be the same for everyone. So its a combination of the two.

Stamina needs to be fixed. When getting shot at your adrenaline should kick in, so you should not be walking slow, even when tired. Maybe I am just different, but running and then stopping to fire a weapon does not really effect my aim like games make it. It would have some effects but it would be much more subtle.

[kvnastn 10]

I agree with this but the last thing I want is to lose the freedom currently offered. as much as I love intense realistic firefights I love screwing around just as much. I want to be able to carry a SAW and a Barret if I want. maybe this could be togglable via difficulty. I also think a nice full character customization screen would be nice. one were you could actually fill pockets in your vest with items mags etc. and you can purchase different pants/vests etc. which have more or less pockets/weight. a system in which you can purchase upgrades to weapons or armor to a certain extent in the campaign would also be cool as I know that many armed servicemen must purchase their own gear past standard issue. personally my cousin had to buy his own scope for his rifle, batteries for optics etc.

sorry for the spelling I'm trying to post this off of my phone lol

[no use for a name 0]

Weight and slots should be used. Slots would be based on the gear you are wearing, and maximum weight capacity will have to be the same for everyone. So its a combination of the two.

Stamina needs to be fixed. When getting shot at your adrenaline should kick in, so you should not be walking slow, even when tired. Maybe I am just different, but running and then stopping to fire a weapon does not really effect my aim like games make it. It would have some effects but it would be much more subtle.

Agreed. Personally I think Hidden & Dangerous 2 got everything right; having limited slots; but also an overall weight.

[Make Love Not War 10]

Some really good discussion and ideas itt. I also agree that a primarily weight based system would be best. Combining that with a more advanced slot-type interface - along the lines of what Carl Gustaffa and others have suggested - would also work well.

And, yes, the collapsing/fainting we have in ACE atm is pretty silly. Being very heavily encumbered doesn't mean you collapse after sprinting for a kilometer, rather it means that you're simply unable to sprint in the first place. Dexterity penalties might also be interesting (although probably too hardcore for most people).

[Kenex05 0]

I just thought about the same thing yesterday. And I think it'd be nice if we can sort weapon by their names first, then you may click the "-" (negative sign) to hide the weapon series, just like how folders are displayed in terms of roots. I always think that the Gear Menu is always messy and way too small to view inventories in a crate even with the new sort system introduced in A2.

And about the inventory system you guys are discussing, you may want to have a look at a Russian game called "7.62 High Calibre", I personally like how the system works.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Kenex05

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Stamina needs to be fixed. When getting shot at your adrenaline should kick in, so you should not be walking slow, even when tired. Maybe I am just different, but running and then stopping to fire a weapon does not really effect my aim like games make it. It would have some effects but it would be much more subtle.

Anything that helps prolong the firefight is a welcomed feature. Personally I think the shaky gun effect should be easier to trig, with a more gradual effect. Look at pretty much any real life fighting - they don't deliver truly aimed shots - they just shoot in a general direction to get bullets downrange. The enemy doesn't know if they are aimed or snapped, so they stay hidden, allowing for maneuver - so non aimed shots works pretty well.

This is something that is a big problem in games - people only do deliberate shooting, not realizing that suppressing effect kicks in making their hands shake, making them worse shots, improving our odds.

Example:

40 secs - "You see'em?" - "No I don't see'em". They're still shooting back in a general direction.

[Militant1006 11]

I agree with you Gustaffa, (hopefully this isn't off topic) although I think maybe having a system where your aiming is quite inaccurate constantly, unless you hold your breath, but having the hold breath option being more gradual, so allowing snipers to make precision shots etc. but not having super accurate firefights, which isn't really too bad in Coop, but in PvP it sorta sucks, TvT would be great fun if shooting wasn't so accurate for players.

[nkenny 1051]

Character agility should suffer for wearing large loads. Agility should affect actions such as climbing walls, getting into and out of vehicles*, carrying wounded comrades, and even changing stances.

I must also emphatically stress that jogging/regular speed SHOULD NOT BE AFFECTED by stamina. If only for the sake of sanity, coding, and ease of coordinating movement.

-k

*When your chopper is becoming a burning wreck around you a thought strikes in a sudden crystallized understanding of why normal pilots don't pack a M107, M4, and a Javelin when flying...

[dmarkwick 261]

Character agility should suffer for wearing large loads. Agility should affect actions such as climbing walls, getting into and out of vehicles*, carrying wounded comrades, and even changing stances.

I agree with the notion of encumbrance affecting agility. I should say that it should affect general movements: turning etc. I know some people insist that they can turn on a dime in an instant, but they cannot, it's only their impression :) Encumbrance (lets agree that that means the combination of weight + size of items) should have an ingame effect IMO, but I agree that blacking out is unnecessary.

I must also emphatically stress that jogging/regular speed SHOULD NOT BE AFFECTED by stamina. If only for the sake of sanity, coding, and ease of coordinating movement.

Hmm, difficult :) I can see the MP ramifications of reduced speed ability, but I reckon it should still be a factor. Improved formation AI would adjust for the slowest element (as it does IRL) and players will just have to learn to spread the load, again as in real life.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

All guns have a dexterity value, but the only way it shows up is up/down aiming or all aiming while alt-aiming. I realize, and to some extent agree, that using dexterity for turning would result in feeling sluggish, or like we had forced mouse lag.

Like floating zone, head bobbing, camera shakes etc, I think there should be a forced minimum rather than being allowed to set it all zero. Only about 5-10% though; floating zone prevents marker cheats on no cursor games and is hardly felt at all (I use this setting and I can still hit close targets when shooting from the hip, but I'm chanceless against distant targets without proper aim).

How about this for dexterity with turned down floating zone: You always get dexterity affect while in sight (same as alt-aiming now), but is turned off for large rotations allowing the snap rotation people want? You'll still get unrealistic snap rotation, but it won't be as advantageous as the slow aiming process will still be affected by it. For fast rotations, the weapon will lag behind at edge of screen (like for large floating zone), but will snap slowly to center again. I believe the values for MP5 and M4 is in the 0.9-1.2 range, so it wouldn't matter much on these weapons. But it would end the use of M240 and M107 as assault weapons as they have larger values. If BIS brings in rests/bipods, it will limit the allowed rotational movement of the weapon, but re-aiming would be faster and recoil less felt.

And I stress again, the effect will be minimal on assault weapons due to their low dexterity value, and increase gradually as you'd expect with much larger weapons such as M240 or M107.

As for jogging and stamina, how about gradual decrease based on weight alone? I would love to see the ACE/ShackTac camerabased getin/out thing unless proper animations are now used. I'm using this in my mission, and it was immediately noticed with a "wow, awesome". It adds so much to your spatial awareness - which way fo you face when you exit the vehicle. Without it, I have yet to turn the right way, lol :D

[rye1 21]

Ok, now how will a weight system work with an exoskeleton?

[nkenny 1051]

Ok, now how will a weight system work with an exoskeleton?

magic.

Its a loadbearing kit. What do you expect it to do? Sure it may ease the burden of heavy lifting, but it will still be a pain in the ass to get into and out of vehicle. etc.

-k

[dmarkwick 261]

Ok, now how will a weight system work with an exoskeleton?

Easy. Exoskeleton has a large negative weight value ;)

[walker 0]

Hi all

Add in the ability to search people and remove things from their inventory.

Things in their hand requires they either acquiesce/agree via chat or dialogue or are restrained or subdued so tie in with ability to arrest and restrain a prisoner and knockout or subdue an individual.

Things in pack and pockets should require either acquiescence or sneakiness and physical contact. Would be great for a future covert ops games and Military Intelligence ops and for "... life" type games as you could have pick pocketing.

Also additional inventory objects like cards, keys, money, wallets etc.

Make ALL doors on buildings lockable with IDed key numbers that we can then link to objects like brass keys in persons inventory, and make some electronic with card pads retinal scan keypads etc used via dialogue, ditto vehicles and have padlocks for gates.

Imagine bumping into a character, then having to check you inventory to see if they stole your ID card, credit card, cash car keys and or wallet.

Would open up a whole bunch of gaming ideas.

I built a prison mission in ArmA II but could find no way of locking gates or doors, so it was no use :(

Kind Regards walker

Edited June 8, 2011 by walker