ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

What would kill steam short of a massive law suit or the zompocalypse?

I'd say the former would follow whatever "kills Steam". Steam is printing money - if they lose integrity, the printer stops. They wouldn't want that.

[cossack8559 10]

yeah because you agree when steam dies, all your game dies.

Actually Steam has said that in the case of this ever happening (very unlikely) they would release a patch removing the requirement for Steam. You can find many discussions on this with a simple Google search.

But lets be realistic, Steam isn't going bust when it controls the majority of the PC market. In fact UK game retailers have even said in the past that Steam's dominance is killing competition. Steam is dominating for a reason, they quite simply offer fantastic deals during their sales and bring together many PC gamers as well as putting all of our games in one simple place. Despite all the Steam hate on this site, the majority of PC gamers that i know my self included consider Steam a blessing for PC gaming. Where i live shops such as GAME used to have an entire section dedicated to PC games, yet in the last 7 years they have a tiny little corner with about 15 games while the rest of the shop is full of Console games. Yet they wonder why PC gamers are turning to Steam? :j:

[eddieck 10]

Actually Steam has said that in the case of this ever happening (very unlikely) they would release a patch removing the requirement for Steam. You can find many discussions on this with a simple Google search.

I know Gabe said that, but Valve's agreement tells a different story. Valve are decent guys so I doubt they'd ever pull that, but legally they can.

[eye-tac 10]

I don't understand why there is SUCH a debate going on here.

The only real problem is that it is 'Steam Exclusive', but has anyone else gone on the store page on Arma.com? It clearly states: "STEAM & STORE.BISTUDIO.COM" so you can still get the game from BI website it seems, any clarification would be nice as well.

I have yet to buy ARMA, which I will soon from BI website since I would like to avoid Steam since I am not a fan, I don't like it but I don't hate it either, I just don't care for it, but seeing the latest screenshots and latest updates on ARMA3 site I am caring even less about this 'STEAM' issue since those images look AMAZING!

Is really having 1 game on Steam THAT big of a deal? Do you people revolt like this every time you disagree with something? Calm a bit down, BI is a business that needs to make profit so they can continue being a business, have some common sense, if Steam permits them to save money and time then so be it, if you were as 'dedicated supporters' of BI then you wouldn't mind actually helping them out a bit and not act like a bunch of 15 year olds. It's not like you are going to get your game deleted or held for ransom from Steam, which indeed Steam is a business as well and needs some sort of strategy and business plan to continue, yet again, like any other business; you are all acting like you have been digitally raped by Steam in the past.

Support BI, they have gone through enough problems with the development of the game for f---'s sake 2 of their dev's were imprisoned under false charges, and certainly don't act like they have betrayed you.

etc.

Edited February 27, 2013 by eye-tac
grammar correction

[Nicholas 5]

I don't understand why there is SUCH a debate going on here.

The only real problem is that it is 'Steam Exclusive', but has anyone else gone on the store page on Arma.com? It clearly states: "STEAM & STORE.BISTUDIO.COM" so you can still get the game from BI website it seems, any clarification would be nice as well.

Because no matter where you buy it from, the game will be downloaded and installed from Steam. When you buy it from the BI Store, you'll just be getting a key which you will then have to enter into Steam.

[eye-tac 10]

Alright, thanks for clearing that up; still doesn't seem to be an immense problem~

[tremanarch 6]

I guess one year from now all those nay sayers that nevertheless tried steam for arma 3 and used it, will have more than one game and will find it also good.

Steam is the future of PC Gaming. Its not evil. Gabe Newell is a cool character - sophisticated. Triple A titles are in steam listed with Indy titles on the same page. There is no Bonus for big companies when you browse the shops games list. (Okay there is a banner on the shops front page that lists sale events etc)

Gabe Newell has also his projects and his ideas. All this community driven evaluation thing for indy titles - do you think thats a typical Big companies habit?

I like to read Neal Stephenson books, and I know that he is creating a sword fighting game with an extra controller - and guess who is supporting it? yes gabe newell again.

I dont want to advertise. But please dig a little bit and gather knowledge. Steam may be a risc, but compared to other riscs its neglectable and just comfortable.

And I promise many of you will join me on this one in one year or so... We will see :)

Edited February 27, 2013 by tremanarch

[jblackrupert 14]

What would kill steam short of a massive law suit or the zompocalypse?

It could eventually be sold to the same type of people who bought Electronic Arts from Trip Hawkins.

Once upon a time EA was considered a great company and I remember buying games simply because the logo meant quality.

[the_player 1]

Geezus christ, who are all these whiners who keep crying about Steam and it being bad for game and industry itself? You should check your facts and learn about the subject before opening your mouth.

[jblackrupert 14]

Geezus christ, who are all these whiners who keep crying about Steam and it being bad for game and industry itself? You should check your facts and learn about the subject before opening your mouth.

Gaming for 35+ years, I've seen the ups and downs, the complete destruction of studios and the slow but steady whittling away of our consumer rights, getting less and less for our gaming dollars.

A lot of the Steam/Gabe Newell worshipers don't even rememeber a day when they opened a box and found a manual over 10 pages, let alone any manual at all.

Like I said... EA was once upon a time the best game company around and ya... people poo poo'd the people who saw what was coming when Trip Hawkins sold it.

Feel free to go on Ebay and buy a game from the 80's - early 90's. and compare what you got back then and what you get now.

Edited February 27, 2013 by jblackrupert

[the_player 1]

And that seems to be perfect reason not to buy game you'd really love to play. Don't worry, Valve won't bankrupt before Arma 4 comes out.

[jblackrupert 14]

And that seems to be perfect reason not to buy game you'd really love to play. Don't worry, Valve won't bankrupt before Arma 4 comes out.

Never said it will, but things happen, companies are sold, people retire..... the people who take over sometimes don't give a flying F about games, just money.... Like EA.

Apple was facing bankruptcy until Microsoft saved their asses with a large cash injection.

Steam is becoming a monopoly, so if they fall for whatever reason all those games you own might just go poof or end up under the control of suits like the ones at EA.

Edited February 27, 2013 by jblackrupert

[the_player 1]

Don't give me that Stockholm Syndrome crap. Nothing ventured nothing gained. This proverb may has slightly different meaning in english, but where I came from it means that you won't achieve shit if you're afraid of something. I do aware of the vast 'possibilities' that Steam may cause to Arma III, but then I remember what a mess were their previous games, and realise that it just couldn't be worse. Pros outweigh the cons in the end.

Edited February 27, 2013 by the_player

[iceman77 18]

Geezus christ, who are all these whiners who keep crying about Steam and it being bad for game and industry itself? You should check your facts and learn about the subject before opening your mouth.

Check my facts? I already know my facts. Here are some facts:

-Been playing this series since ~02 *while you were probably hopping on the BF/COD bandwagon or possibly just outgrowing your diapers

-Steam hasn't been required until now

-No matter how you look at it, steam is just another hoop to jump through

-No matter how you look at it, steam has underhanded consumer rights. Well... unless you actually enjoy anal probes *Yes, some of us actually read the thing called eula and/or agreement. Pretty Crazy huh?

-I don't hate steam, I would just prefer not to use it and that option shouldn't be taken away from me if I'm to keep playing the series that I've played for ages.

-Noobs like to come on the BI forums, and tell others what their opinions should be just because A) They use steam &/or B) the person may not want to be forced to use a 3rd party program just to play said game.

So... Just because a person would prefer not to use steam, they're automatically labeled things like "steam hater","whiner" etc etc. Which is bullshit. It's a matter of user options, and a major "option" has just been taken away. Some of us, don't need steam, we don't need the social networking, we don't need it to keep our games up to date for us. Though I realize for some, managing updates & mods is "too hard bro!" :rolleyes:. Which has always helped filter out the bf/cod crowd. Go check yourself, before you come on here talking about whos whining and crying. Maybe you need to go gather some facts?

[Steiner34 12]

Check my facts? I already know my facts. Here are some facts:

-Been playing this series since ~02 *while you were probably hopping on the BF/COD bandwagon or possibly just outgrowing your diapers

-Steam hasn't been required until now

-No matter how you look at it, steam is just another hoop to jump through

-No matter how you look at it, steam has underhanded consumer rights. Well... unless you actually enjoy anal probes *Yes, some of us actually read the thing called eula and/or agreement. Pretty Crazy huh?

-I don't hate steam, I would just prefer not to use it and that option shouldn't be taken away from me if I'm to keep playing the series that I've played for ages.

-Noobs like to come on the BI forums, and tell others what their opinions should be just because A) They use steam &/or B) the person may not want to be forced to use a 3rd party program just to play said game.

So... Just because a person would prefer not to use steam, they're automatically labeled things like "steam hater","whiner" etc etc. Which is bullshit. It's a matter of user options, and a major "option" has just been taken away. Some of us, don't need steam, we don't need the social networking, we don't need it to keep our games up to date for us. Though I realize for some, managing updates & mods is "too hard bro!" :rolleyes:. Which has always helped filter out the bf/cod crowd. Go check yourself, before you come on here talking about whos whining and crying. Maybe you need to go gather some facts?

+1

Well said Sir.

[Kuskov 1]

I have reconsidered and wish to reverse my vote to 'Yes'.

[iceman77 18]

I have reconsidered and wish to reverse my vote to 'Yes'.

I'm doing the same unfortunately. :p

---------- Post added at 00:23 ---------- Previous post was at 00:21 ----------

+1 Well said Sir.

Yes well, maybe a little harsh. I'm just so sick of others, who just so happen to like steam, telling me what my opinions should be or that I'm "crying", just because some of us believe steam should be optional. Kind of the same thing, if I would categorize all steam users as being COD, "head shot!!" teenyboppers. It just isn't a fair judgement.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Iceman77

[the_player 1]

I would really love to jump into polemic discussion with you, but alas you're a little too biased for it to be constructive and I don't really want preachin to the quiet. Crying for being labeled as hater and whiner right after offending me in being codkid and stuff like that? Smashing. I guess these double standarts of yours ain't ristricted to insults alone.

Yes well, maybe a little harsh. I'm just so sick of others, who just so happen to like steam, telling me what my opinions should be or that I'm "crying", just because some of us believe it should be optional.

Proving my theory, sir. You don't understand reasons behind making Arma III a Steamworks title.

Edited February 27, 2013 by the_player

[iceman77 18]

mmmm. haha. Steam is needed to help dev time. Period. Ofcourse you didn't say that. You started in with the "crying" nonsense. Also, yup I sure did label you a cod kid...right after you labeled some of us as criers? :rolleyes:. So it's okay for you to label others but not the other way around? Sounds like something children do. That being, they can dish it out, but can't take it.

---------- Post added at 00:39 ---------- Previous post was at 00:32 ----------

Shoot me a PM if you wish to continue this debate :)

Edited February 27, 2013 by Iceman77

[Leon86 13]

Well the reasoning is they want one version and DRM. That makes it either steam exclusive or not for sale on steam, cant not be on steam of course.

But why bother with DRM, wont stop a cracked version from spreading.

[celery 8]

Origin's EULA ≈ Steam's EULA

Origin has been known to screw its customers and get away with it thanks to their EULA; Steam has also been known to screw its customers and get away with it thanks to their EULA.

"But Steam would never do such a thing even though Origin would! Why on earth would they act within the terms and conditions stated in their EULA that are only there to prevent petty people from distracting Steam from its good business? Screwing customers is bad business and they only want customer satisfaction!" and yet evidence points to the contrary. Is there a fancy word for when only unwarranted blind faith in a self-serving corporation's kindness compared to another very similar corporation prevents one from seeing how things really are? These poor people are quite frankly trusting Steam to not do what it's been known to do and what is also explicitly within its rights to do.

Steam is the future of PC Gaming. Its not evil.

Digital distribution is the future and present of PC gaming. Steam is a corporation that digitally distributes games in a way that maximizes its profit, no matter what laws and ethics they break. GOG.com is also a digital distributor, yet somehow they manage to stay afloat without any drm at all. GOG.com's games are a thousandfold more futureproof than Steam's because once you have a game's installer on your hard disk, it's impossible for anyone to take it or its functionality away. Even calling GOG.com's admins a bunch of cockmonglers doesn't mean that your games are gone the next morning. You know things are bad when something like that is an impressive and unexpected feature in a digital distributor.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Celery

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Digital distribution is the future and present of PC gaming. Steam is a corporation that digitally distributes games in a way that maximizes its profit, no matter what laws and ethics they break.

We better call the Internet police then. Company making profits with honest products & services, while having an outstanding reputation. For 7 years now, and 7 years before then with Half-Life, Counter-Strike & Team Fortress.

GOG.com is also a digital distributor, yet somehow they manage to stay afloat without any drm at all. GOG.com's games are a thousandfold more futureproof than Steam's because once you have a game's installer on your hard disk, it's impossible for anyone to take it or its functionality away.

Good to them, I heard of this website. Once or twice during this past decade.

Even calling GOG.com's admins a bunch of cockmonglers doesn't mean that your games are gone the next morning.

Wait, why would you even do that on ANY forum? What?

_______________________________________________

Jeeze, people may be against digital distribution/Steam, but outright thought-out-can't-make-this-up bullshit isn't helping their point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kübler-Ross_model

We're at number 3, by the way.

[batto 17]

Beware, Iroquois Pliskin is very hardcore corporate fanboy. No point arguing. Just saying...

I believe Steam is probably very good advantage for developers. But fanboys pushing their beliefs down everyone's throat makes me sick. There's little advantage from using Steam for users (quite opposite).

Edited February 27, 2013 by batto

[cuel 25]

Origin's EULA ≈ Steam's EULA

Almost all EULAs ≈ Steam's EULA

It's a way for companies to protect themselves against consumers taking them to court over every little thing that they can find. Suing them for insane amounts over small details.

You use an Apple or Google product? I'm sure you will find several "unethical" phrases that you have to agree with.

We’re also introducing a new dispute resolution process that will benefit you and Valve. Recently, a number of companies have created similar provisions which have generated lots of discussion from customers and communities, and we’ve been following these discussions closely. On Steam, whenever a customer is unhappy with any transaction, our first goal is to resolve things as quickly as possible through the normal customer support process. However in those instances in which we can't resolve a dispute, we've outlined a new required process whereby we agree to use arbitration or small claims court to resolve the dispute. In the arbitration process, Valve will reimburse your costs of the arbitration for claims under a certain amount. Reimbursement by Valve is provided regardless of the arbitrator’s decision, provided that the arbitrator does not determine the claim to be frivolous or the costs unreasonable.

Most significant to the new dispute resolution terms is that customers may now only bring individual claims, not class action claims. We considered this change very carefully. It’s clear to us that in some situations, class actions have real benefits to customers. In far too many cases however, class actions don’t provide any real benefit to users and instead impose unnecessary expense and delay, and are often designed to benefit the class action lawyers who craft and litigate these claims. Class actions like these do not benefit us or our communities. We think this new dispute resolution process is faster and better for you and Valve while avoiding unnecessary costs, and that it will therefore benefit the community as a whole.

I'm doing the same unfortunately. :p

---------- Post added at 00:23 ---------- Previous post was at 00:21 ----------

Yes well, maybe a little harsh. I'm just so sick of others, who just so happen to like steam, telling me what my opinions should be or that I'm "crying", just because some of us believe steam should be optional. Kind of the same thing, if I would categorize all steam users as being COD, "head shot!!" teenyboppers. It just isn't a fair judgement.

Tbh people who defend Steam are labeled as COD/BF fans, Gabe lovers, Steam circlejerks and other things just as quick as Steam haters are labeled as whiners / other things. It's doesn't add anything to the discussion and is a cheap way trying to get a point across.

Edited February 27, 2013 by cuel

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Beware, Iroquois Pliskin is very hardcore corporate fanboy. No point arguing. Just saying...

I'm a zealot of ArmA, nothing else.

I believe Steam is probably very good advantage for developers. But fanboys pushing their beliefs down everyone's throat makes me sick. There's little advantage from using Steam for users (quite opposite).

Without Steam, public MP is dead in this game due to poor multiplayer facilities like serverlists, filters, favourites, friendlists. Not to mention that a larger audience will have a healthier effect on server populations.

See DayZ.

---------- Post added at 10:18 ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 ----------

Almost all EULAs ≈ Steam's EULA

It's a way for companies to protect themselves against consumers taking them to court over every little thing that they can find. Suing them for insane amounts over a small details.

You use an Apple or Google product? I'm sure you will find several "unethical" phrases that you have to agree with.

I've explained this bit to them, but I get a very sneaking impression, that some just recently came out of the woodworks of OFP, which is a good thing, but they came out of offline SP into a world of interconnectedness. :cool: