ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[Nicholas 5]

If you don't want Steam, don't buy the game. Simple as that. Your loss. It seems that a majority of people will buy the game no matter how it is distributed.

Maruk knows that it will upset some fans, but he also know how to operate a business. He must think that this is a smart business decision.

[celery 8]

We better call the Internet police then. Companies making profits with honest products & services, while having an outstanding reputation. For 7 years now.

They are in court at this moment because they're making profit by extrajudicial means. What was your point again with that false statement of yours?

Good to them, I heard of this website. Once or twice during this past decade.

http://www.gog.com/ you're welcome to look at it more closely. Remember that just because something has escaped your hallowed sensory organs (which might I add are not known as a stamp of quality around these parts) earlier doesn't mean it's not good. Or is Arma 2 bad because a million people never even knew about it before DayZ?

Wait, why would you even do that on ANY forum? What?

It was an example of something that normally makes your priceless game collection go away with a poof, only in GOG.com's case it doesn't, which is a small miracle in digital distribution. Whether anyone would or wouldn't do that is irrelevant. It's a proven fact that Steam and Origin do take people's game collections away for the stupidest reasons. And on the other hand, even if you were actively trying to achieve it on GOG.com, they simply can't disable your installed and backed-up games with the press of a button. That was my point.

Jeeze, people may be against digital distribution/Steam, but outright thought-out-can't-make-this-up bullshit isn't helping their point.

Dismissal of arguments that you can't disprove sure makes you look like a master debater.

---------- Post added at 12:25 ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 ----------

If you don't want Steam, don't buy the game. Simple as that. Your loss.

Well, that's the whole damn problem here, isn't it?

[LeeManatee 4]

Without Steam, public MP is dead in this game due to poor multiplayer facilities like serverlists, filters, favourites, friendlists. Not to mention that a larger audience will have a healthier effect on server populations.

i'm playing since arma 1 and i strongly disagree with that statement. mp was always populated. may be not overflowed like now with annoying dayz servers but it always was alive and healthy.

[Vigil Vindex 64]

I personally look forward to the benefits of having Arma 3 on Steamworks. I am first and foremost a fan of Arma, and I fully support any decision BIS make, so Steam or no Steam, I will be playing Arma 3 regardless. And I won't be complaining at the extra features. Anyone who states that being a Steam exclusive is a deal breaker obviously is more interested in making their own point against Steam than playing the game or being a fan. The dev blog clearly stated the benefits to both players and the developers, if you refuse to acknowledge that then I guess it's case of denial.

[Nicholas 5]

Well, that's the whole damn problem here, isn't it?

Exactly. Your loss because of a choice you're making. Either move on or get over it. I'm sure Bohemia Interactive's decision to distribute with Steam is set in stone.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

They are in court at this moment because they're making profit by extrajudicial means.

A citation would be nice.

(which might I add are not known as a stamp of quality around these parts)

Don't worry about me, worry about your own sanity, as you reach Stage 4 of the Kübler-Ross model and eventually find yourself playing ArmA III on Steam.

earlier doesn't mean it's not good. Or is Arma 2 bad because a million people never even knew about it before DayZ?

It means they either need to change their website layout, prices & advertising strategies, but if they're happy with their current traffic - that's their business.

I just know, which business BIS preferred to every other alternative. Guess we're stuck with Steam.

Well, that's the whole damn problem here, isn't it?

Swimming against the tides of the Universe is hard, keep strong.

[Leon86 13]

Non steam exclusive would've been preferable to me, if I had the choice I'd have bought it somewhere else.

but I guess 25,- is cheap enough. Same with total war.

[iceman77 18]

Almost all EULAs ≈ Steam's EULA ... It's a way for companies to protect themselves against consumers taking them to court over every little thing that they can find. Suing them for insane amounts over small details

Yes, like protecting themselves when they take your games away. Games that you payed for. How about steam, since the eula is soley for protecting themselves, say okay, if we have to take your games away, for any reason, we're going to refund your money aswell? Sounds fair? I mean, since the eula is not about scamming at all, but only to "protect themselves" right? :rolleyes:

[Leon86 13]

They should make a rule on eula's

eula must be no longer than 500 characters. maybe then people will read it.

[Nicholas 5]

Yes, like protecting themselves when they take your games away. Games that you payed for. How about steam, since the eula is soley for protecting themselves, say okay, if we have to take your games away, for any reason, we're going to refund your money aswell? Sounds fair? I mean, since the eula is not about scamming at all, but only to "protect themselves" right? :rolleyes:

The BI Store can also terminate your account anytime they wish for any or no reason at all.

Termination and Limitation of Access

The right to access our Site or use our services is strictly held by us and we reserve the right to remove or limit your access to the site or the access to the services of our Site for any or no reason.

They can also terminate the your license you agree to when you install their games.

5. Termination. This License is effective until terminated.You may terminate the License at

any time by destroying the Program and any New Material. The Licensor may, at its

discretion, terminate this License in the event that you fail to comply with the terms and

conditions contained herein. In such event, you must immediately destroy the Program

and any New Material.

But would they (Valve or BI) really do such a thing?

[Placebo 28]

Discussing the legality, validity, morality etc. of Steam/Valve/Gabe is most certainly off topic to this thread and any Arma related thread, if you must do that then do it in one of the Steam threads in OT please.

[iceman77 18]

Or how about a legit eula instead, regardless of size, or regardless about what "other eulas state". The steam eula is just a legal way for them to essentially take money from you if they deem so. I could only imagine the amount of games taken away, and the amount of times the user went and re-purchased said game(s) from the steam store... again. But no that's supposed to just be a bi product of them "protecting themselves", it certainly isn't underhanded business ethics now is it?

---------- Post added at 02:08 ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 ----------

oops ninja'd by placebos warning.

[LeeManatee 4]

i have an impression that they abandoned arma 3 and gone to dayz but decided to grab some cash by throwing unfinished arma 3 on steam calling it alpha testing...

no 3d world editor, no new flight model. seems like arma 2.3 (since OA was basicly 2.1)

quite dissapointed and confused.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Guess BIS just needed someone to take care of their "unfortunate" mp situation and distribution method. If they announce themselves that Steam is their saving A3 to be released in 2013 it says also something about their work, motivation and current status on A3. Just don't be so naive and think that gamedevs/publishers are just selling games merely to reach the break-even. It's all about money and how much people will do (or give up/dismiss) just to get their "fix" of playing a game. Sure marketing/PR does what it can to distract people with the nice + shiny side.

[cuel 25]

Or how about a legit eula instead, regardless of size, or regardless about what "other eulas state". The steam eula is just a legal way for them to essentially take money from you if they deem so. I could only imagine the amount of games taken away, and the amount of times the user went and re-purchased said game(s) from the steam store... again. But no that's supposed to just be a bi product of them "protecting themselves", it certainly isn't underhanded business ethics now is it?

---------- Post added at 02:08 ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 ----------

oops ninja'd by placebos warning.

Of a customer viewpoint that is fair. Of an economic viewpoint, it's not. Of a realistic viewpoint I hope that you understand that what you're asking would mean that valve can take money back from the developers of games, at any time, in order to refund a banned user. You can keep your games, without any problems as long as you follow the terms that you agreed to. Is it realistic to refund over 35 million users with a varying amount of games, at any time? No.

The only stories I've heard of where users lost access to their account and in turn their games, was because they were doing either illegal or agreement breaking activities.

That being said, I've been refunded twice for purchases on Steam where I was not satisfied.

[kernriver 4]

Arma III Steam exclusive? OUCH.

Having said that, I have a few games on Steam which work fine.

I don't really like Steam or BI's decision, but what can you do?

Of course I will buy Arma III.

[chortles 263]

If they announce themselves that Steam is their saving A3 to be released in 2013 it says also something about their work, motivation and current status on A3.

That's what a bunch of us have been saying, I just understand why DnA, Maruk and others wouldn't want to go into detail in public. :p

I will note, I'm definitely happy that the Digital Deluxe and Supporter Editions' "extra games" (Arma: CWA and Arma X) are in the form of Steam gifts, since I already have everything in the latter except Arma: CWA and Arma: Gold, and though for some reason the "editions" page seems to make it look like the Alpha Lite invites come with THEIR own Alpha Lite invites, theoretically allowing for a self-perpetuating cycle of "self-generating" Alpha Lite invite keys. :p

[iceman77 18]

Of a customer viewpoint that is fair. Of an economic viewpoint, it's not. Of a realistic viewpoint I hope that you understand that what you're asking would mean that valve can take money back from the developers of games, at any time, in order to refund a banned user. You can keep your games, without any problems as long as you follow the terms that you agreed to. Is it realistic to refund over 35 million users with a varying amount of games, at any time? No.

The only stories I've heard of where users lost access to their account and in turn their games, was because they were doing either illegal or agreement breaking activities.

That being said, I've been refunded twice for purchases on Steam where I was not satisfied.

Cuel :). Idk where you're at in the world. But where I'm from, it's usually not okay that a company can openly and blatantly, take a product you've bought & payed for, without atleast a refund. Infact, it's not realistic at all to take products you've bought and payed for, without a very good reason. IE;The Government - tax fraud/evasion etc etc.

So I buy a water cooler from home depot. Afterwords, while leaving the home depot, I get banned from the home depot (pick a reason). I'm not allowed back onto the property, in the store etc etc. Does that mean, they come to my house, and take the cooler away? Lets imagine they would (LOL :rolleyes:), they'd damn sure hand me my cash money in return.

But I suppose, since I can't be face to face with the steam employees taking my money, it's makes it okay. Cause we (or I atleast) know what would happen if he was in arms reach... and took a product I bought & payed for, and wouldn't refund my money.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Iceman77

[cuel 25]

You're comparing digital artifacts to real life objects, not really applicable. Even though I despise all awful analogies (especially car analogies, surely you agree that "you wouldn't download a car" is an awful comparison), look at this from this way. You buy a gun and commit a crime (break the agreement). Is the police (steam) able to invade your home, arrest you (ban) and take your gun (still ban)? Yes.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Fellas, you've been warned multiple times about this, let's keep this conversation relevant to ArmA3 and Steamworks.

If you want to discuss finer points of Steam as a service, please do it in this offtopic thread.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Sniperwolf572

[T.S.C.Plage 0]

And so it begins or better ends. Btw, is Communism back in the Czech Republic? I'm asking because it feels like!

[celery 8]

Discussing the legality, validity, morality etc. of Steam/Valve/Gabe is most certainly off topic to this thread and any Arma related thread, if you must do that then do it in one of the Steam threads in OT please.

May I ask what makes those aspects of Arma 3('s Steam-exclusivity) offtopic in a thread about Arma 3 and its Steam-exclusivity? Any issue that people might have with Steam is now an issue that people will also have with Arma 3 because the latter only exists with the former.

[Maio 293]

May I ask what makes those aspects of Arma 3('s Steam-exclusivity) offtopic in a thread about Arma 3 and its Steam-exclusivity? Any issue that people might have with Steam is now an issue that people will also have with Arma 3 because the latter only exists with the former.

As I see it at this point , we don;t know what steam features will be integrated and most anti-steam arguments are based on personal grudges with Steam... So until we get a feature list from BI, all discussions (both pro and anti) are based on assumptions, thus the need to switch all steam discussions to off topic.

[Zenith 10]

i have an impression that they abandoned arma 3 and gone to dayz but decided to grab some cash by throwing unfinished arma 3 on steam calling it alpha testing...

no 3d world editor, no new flight model. seems like arma 2.3 (since OA was basicly 2.1)

quite dissapointed and confused.

What gives you that impression? Why would they completely abandon an increasingly popular MilSim, and one into which they have poured a lot of time, effort, and resources, for niche zombie game? I just can't see the logic behind it.

[celery 8]

As I see it at this point , we don;t know what steam features will be integrated and most anti-steam arguments are based on personal grudges with Steam... So until we get a feature list from BI, all discussions (both pro and anti) are based on assumptions, thus the need to switch all steam discussions to off topic.

Steam's general policies and business practices are not a matter of assumptions and guessing, and they will have a rather concrete effect on the Arma 3 consumer experience no matter which Steamworks features (achievements, Workshop) will be announced.