ArmA 3 on Steamworks?

[ratoa 10]

@Ranger PL

Wrong!!!!!

That EULA will lock you out of the games you already purchased in the past if you don't agree to their new terms

Edited February 24, 2013 by ratoa

[kualus 1]

Key point to be made here:

C. Termination by Valve.

Valve may cancel your Account or any particular Subscription(s) at any time. In the event that your Account or a particular Subscription is terminated or cancelled by Valve for a violation of this Agreement or improper or illegal activity, no refund, including of any Subscription fees, will be granted.

The first sentence sets no conditions for termination of accounts. The second sentence merely covers what should happen in the event that the account is terminated for the specified reasons, and uses "improper..activity" without defining it. So W0lle is 100% right.

[nicolasroger 11]

For me I think steam will be a great addition. It will be easier to browse for server and know which servers my friends are on so I can join them.

I, like many other, hate steam for their total control on your games, but so far I had no problem with them and to be honest, 100% of my games were bough on steams for the last 5 years at least.

Maybe Bohemia Interacting could engage talks with steam to disable the "feature" that prevent you from playing offline game after of couple of month without an online loging? And also they could talk to them about assuring us that we will still be able to access our game if they go bankrupt one day.

I mean BI arma2 topped the top sellers chart for a while, they are a big company. It is time for them to put pressure on steam so that the players can get better acces to their game and better garanties.

[W0lle 1052]

Yeah BI snipping with their fingers and Valve does as they say. That's exactly what's gonna happen, not.

BI needs Valve, to sell their game there no matter how "big" they are. And compared to other big players there, BI is still peanuts.

[runforrest 10]

Sorry for offtopic but as there is so many Steam-pros around here, theres a good chance that i hopefully can get this answered here quick and easy :)

So can anyone of u be so kind to explain, how we can have different steamgames in different harddrives/folders?

I know that under Steam>settings>downloads+cloud at bottom i can add new steam-library-folders. Ok, so far so good.

I have moved (cut out) some of my Steamgames from C:\STEAM\SteamApps\common (need HDspace)to a backup folder at D:\Steam Backup\STEAM\SteamApps\common

I created a new steam-library-folder at D:\Steam Backup\STEAM

Problem is, that the games, that are located at D:\Steam Backup\STEAM\SteamApps\common still show "Storage Occupancy: xxxxx MB on Drive C:" (when i rightclick the game in the steamlibrary and click properties>local files)

When i try to start that games, i get: "Steam Error The game can not be started (missing programmefile)" (i translated this from german to english - so i dont know what it exactly says in english)

Any idea what im doing wrong? Thanks in advance

[5133p39 16]

I don't need a reason to refuse any unnecessary 3rd party software. What we got a BI Store for? For which actually just recently there was a lot of fuss because of the user account merge. What was that for? Keeping people busy?

That depends, is the Steam really unnecessary? Note, i don't have any knowledge regarding BI Store capacity, but maybe it's not currently capable of handling such load as will be necessary, while Steam is.

What you call 'redunant' is essential for people with only a shitty internet connection. And yes, these people exist even in the middle of Europe, in "high tech countries". But good for you that you have a 100mbit line and don't have to worry about unnecessary downloads. For these people even updating Steam is a pain. But what do I say, you won't get it anyways.

I think the DVDs solve this, and the Steam updates are not so frequent and i do not think the amount of data necessary to download is huge enough to deserve calling it a "pain", but i admit it's possible even though for me it is hard to believe.

What makes me laugh is: In your signature you have "Be smart, use Sprocket"... Now well I would like to use Sprocket/BI Store as before but because of the brilliant decision to use Steam I can not...

Hmm, maybe i should update my signature with "Be smart, use Steam" ;-)

Quoting from bistudio.com - "Boxed copies of Arma 3 will still be available at retail in most regions. These will either be Steam Codes in a retail package, or also contain DVD data to speed up installation."

So the ppl with problematic connection will have the option to buy the DVDs, and then only "activate" the game on Steam and then just play offline (as they would anyway if they had such crappy internet connection).

Also, i didn't seen anywhere that BI stated the game wont be available to download also from other sources like Sprocket. I am not saying it will, i just presume so - but i might be mistaken and if Steam would be the only source for digital distribution, then i agree the options will be slightly limited, but not to such extent to cause a real problems.

[nicolasroger 11]

To RunForrest:

I have arma 2 installed of my SSD and steam installed on another hardrive. I don't remember exactly how I did it, but in the steamApps/common folder, I simply have a shortcup to my arma 2 folder on the other drive

EDIT1: I looked a bit more into this and It seems like it is not a simple shotcut link. I now remember I did something more special about it and it had more to do with Windows then Steam. This was before Steam had a built in way to move game in other folder I guess.

EDIT2: I am pretty sure this is the method I used!: http://forums.steamgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1138731

Wolle, don't make it too simple. I did say "engage talks" with them. I remember that when arma 2 faced problems with huge updates, BI talked to steam about the problem and now It paid off as we will have a better update system.

Edited February 24, 2013 by nicolasroger

[5133p39 16]

Steam adds nothing -not a single unit- to the game.

True, but is it enough reason for you to resent it? Because even if Steam wouldn't add any additional value to the game itself, it won't hurt you using it (and i mean you specifically, as you didn't complained about crappy internet connection).

And more importantly, think about what was written on the bistudio.com, saying that "The bottom-line: we feel that without going Steam-exclusive, we would not be able to release Arma 3 in 2013." - someone would say "i don't care how long it takes, just ditch the Steam and take the time", but time is money, and even though BI really is listening to its fan base, they are still running a business, which must inevitably result in some compromises such as this one.

[Nutlink 10]

I remember all these arguments against Steam back in 2004 or so. Back then I hated it too, because I had a dial-up connection and using Steam to play Half-Life 2 was a pain in the ass with it's constant updates. Sometime around 2006 or so is when Steam started to win me over, and it's been nothing but love ever since. Am I concerned about losing my Steam library? To an extent. I believe Valve more than almost any other game developer, and definitely more than any other publisher. They've stated before (and you can contact their customer service about this if you'd like, even if it doesn't exactly "prove" anything) that they have measurements in place to ensure that you will still have access to all your games. I have a little over 201 games on my Steam library. If I lost access to all of those, I'd probably rebuy maybe 10 of those, and it would most likely cost me under $100. I can live with that.

I don't resell my games anyway, so that's a non-issue for me personally. Honestly, PC games are the last thing I'd buy used in regards to entertainment for a variety of reasons. Patching? It keeps the multiplayer community from splitting up too much. If you run Steam on multiple machines like I do, then I just create a backup of the game on a USB drive and reinstall the game on the other machine to avoid having to download the game (or any massive patches) again. I don't think I've ever seen anyone banned from Steam without access to their games that didn't deserve it. Not that it never happens, but considering the size of it's userbase and how little it seems to happen compared to the fraction that is Origin that does the same thing, or the accidental bannings from Punkbuster, and it's even less of a concern. Hell, even the region locking and pricing issues people suffer from are thanks to the publishers. There's a few games out there that, even though they're bought off of Steam, don't require Steam to be running at all to run the game. I recall Far Cry 2 being that case, and yet you'll have others that require yet ANOTHER program to run (Far Cry 3 launches UPlay, then you can launch FC3). It all depends on the deal between Valve and the publisher/developer/whoever.

I understand that it sucks for some people, but to claim that it's the end of the series because it's taking away a little bit of your freedom (funny thing coming from primarily Windows users) is fairly ignorant.

Sorry for offtopic but as there is so many Steam-pros around here, theres a good chance that i hopefully can get this answered here quick and easy :)

So can anyone of u be so kind to explain, how we can have different steamgames in different harddrives/folders?

I know that under Steam>settings>downloads+cloud at bottom i can add new steam-library-folders. Ok, so far so good.

I have moved (cut out) some of my Steamgames from C:\STEAM\SteamApps\common (need HDspace)to a backup folder at D:\Steam Backup\STEAM\SteamApps\common

I created a new steam-library-folder at D:\Steam Backup\STEAM

Problem is, that the games, that are located at D:\Steam Backup\STEAM\SteamApps\common still show "Storage Occupancy: xxxxx MB on Drive C:" (when i rightclick the game in the steamlibrary and click properties>local files)

When i try to start that games, i get: "Steam Error The game can not be started (missing programmefile)" (i translated this from german to english - so i dont know what it exactly says in english)

Any idea what im doing wrong? Thanks in advance

I do not believe it will work like that. There might be a way to do this with a few registry edits, but I didn't find anything that I could do that with. You're best bet would be to back up the game, delete the local files and the reinstall (using the backup) to the new location, although anything that's saved locally might get lost (user configs, control settings, etc), although that's usually saved in either the game directory itself (in which case you're safe) or your Windows profile (which if it isn't removed when uninstalling, you're safe again).

Edited February 24, 2013 by BOTA:49

[celery 8]

if Steam would be the only source for digital distribution, then i agree the options will be slightly limited, but not to such extent to cause a real problems.

It's good to hear that after all the problems and bad things listed to you, the "slightly limited" options won't actually cause real problems.

[W0lle 1052]

Quoting from bistudio.com - "Boxed copies of Arma 3 will still be available at retail in most regions. These will either be Steam Codes in a retail package, or also contain DVD data to speed up installation."

So the ppl with problematic connection will have the option to buy the DVDs, and then only "activate" the game on Steam and then just play offline (as they would anyway if they had such crappy internet connection).

Play offline with the requirement to check once every 30 days if the conditions haven't changed and I sell my soul to Valve. See #1007

Besides that, this developer blog is pure PR, nothing else.

What I wonder, has whoever is responsible at BI for this brilliant decision checked first to what shitty conditions their customers must agree to play Arma 3?

I doubt it. That would have been too much work.

After reading these Steam TOC I'm even more disappointed from BI. Never I have thought they would betray their loyal fanbase that much in order to save some time and money. And yes to me this betrayal.

[runforrest 10]

@nicolasroger

jea, as u already said thats the old way to do it, but thanks anyway

@BOTA:49

reinstall (using the backup) to the new location

Thats what i am wondering about, how do i do a reinstall using the backup? (so i dont have to redownload all files again as they are already there) Steam doesnt recognize that i have files there

[Nutlink 10]

@nicolasroger

jea, as u already said thats the old way to do it, but thanks anyway

@BOTA:49

Thats what i am wondering about, how do i do a reinstall using the backup? (so i dont have to redownload all files again as they are already there) Steam doesnt recognize that i have files there

Put the files back to their original location, then verify that the game works. Once you do that, then right-click on the game and select "Backup Game Files" and follow the directions. Once you have it backed up then go to Steam>Backup and Restore Games, and follow the prompts from there. Make sure you select the right install location too.

If that does not work, then put the game in temporary directory to hold on to it. Delete the game from your Steam list to uninstall it. Then reinstall it, but pause the download. Exit Steam, then copy the files into the new save location. Start Steam back up, pause the download, and do the "Verify Integrity of Game Cache" (right click the game>Properties>Local Files) for the game to check what you have and to see if it needs to redownload anything. This is more or less a last effort attempt because if it goes wrong, you're stuck redownloading the whole game without a backup.

[Alex72 1]

Okay since some people want a reason, here are three:

Fair points indeed. I dont like that i dont have access to my games whenever, and i dont like that i cant give away for example some SP games i finished to some friend, and i surely dont like that some twat can cancel my account and take everything i paid for. Sounds damn horrible. But i guess i just dont know what to do as i do want ARMA3 and the result is i have to take it up the *** and go with it as i dont think a bunch of us here will be able to stop this process.

I did say yes in the poll, but not because i like Steam, but because i want the only game that means something on the market of shallow bullshit games.

[5133p39 16]

The game will always bind to a Steam account. You can't buy it from the BI store and then forget about the whole Steam part.

Yes, but how exactly this hinders your game experience?

I am already using Steam, having only few games on my account, but i can't really say that using Steam was a bad experience (except for the Walking Dead saves problem i mentioned earlier, but i cant say it was caused by Steam, more probably by the game update, or by myself making some mistake when using the Steam Cloud Sync).

Want to sell or give away the game you bought? You can't. The game doesn't work on your system even though it should? You can't get a refund. Done something or Steam thinks you've done something they don't want you to do? Account suspended, €1000 worth of games taken away: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=5406-WFZC-5519

First, i do not aprove of selling game you played, it just feels wrong, but thats only my opinion which differs from your opinion, meaning its only a matter of opinion, so we cant use it as a general reason in this discussion.

Giving away is another thing, there i tend to agree with you, yet not completely as i am still little reluctant to think it is perfectly ok to buy game, play it till the end, and then denying more business to the devs by just giving it away - it probably sounds too harsh, but if i would have to use an example: imagine you go to movies, you pay for the ticket, you watch the movie, and then you want to give the ticket to another person so he can also watch the movie. Thats not how this business works, and in my opinion it doesn't even feel right, if you want to give something to another person, nothing prevents you from buying extra ticket just for him.

But this is for different discussion.

What about game updates? A Steam-only automatic delta patch means that they are forced to download and install the update on the machine that contains the Arma 3 installation. The only way to "patch" a game in a situation like that would be to copy the whole Arma 3 directory from a machine that downloaded the update and use it to overwrite the Arma 3 directory on another machine. And that's assuming Steam won't throw a shit fit and start checking and downloading the whole damn game all over again.

Also, Steam wants to update itself too and can get cranky if you don't.

You probably mean, that people without internet connection wont be able to download the update, let's say at a friend, and then bring it home to install it?

I agree that copying the whole game directory to a flash drive is tiny bit more complicated, than copying just a single archive containg the update.

For example, my mother would probably have to call me and let me instruct her over the phone :)

But jokes aside, this is the first reason i deem valid.

And then there is the mystery of whether offline LAN games are possible.

No, there isn't.

So if Steam is the only thing preventing a player from enjoying his games, Steam cannot in any way be the problem? Since you're a Bohemia Interactive employee/contractor, it's not the best PR to imply that a segment that has voiced its worries in this same thread is incompetent and should stick to consoles when they would have had zero problems if Arma 3 wasn't Steam-exclusive.

First of all, i am not speaking here for BI, i dont have a mandate for such thing nor do i seek it, i only voice my own personal opinions.

Secondly, if somebody is unable to setup ones computer properly, then he clearly is incompetent of such thing, no shame in that.

When somebody wants to drive a car, he must first learn how to drive a car, and if he doesn't want to learn, or he is unable to do so (be it for lack of time, or just because its difficult for that person), he still has the option to take a taxi (ie. let other people do it for him). Would you blame a company, that makes cars, for your inability to drive a car?

I admit it may not be relevant enough as an argument, but the only people i know of having problems with Steam, are the people who are incompetent to maintain their computer (note: "incompetent" is not a dirty word :))

The problem is that Workshop will likely become the main hub for mods because it's one click away when you have Steam open, and that's where the "magic" of stolen addons, unauthorized uploads, unfriendly user interface and disillusioned mod makers happens.

Let's take Skyrim for example, there is the Steam Workshop (having 13893 entries), and then there is the Skyrim Nexus (having 23393 entries), so i wouldnt bet on Steam Workshop becoming the main hub for mods (it might, but... maybe not - especially if ppl find its user interface unfriendly as you mentioned).

And even if the Workshop becomes the main hub, how is it worse than any other repository? It's the internet, if some ppl think there are no rules, their actions are not limited to one website, or Steam Workshop, it happens everywhere.

And yet this is the biggest problem. Some people simply don't want to use Steam and that should be reason enough to convince you that going Steam-exclusive is a bad thing for the consumer.

I cant agree - if you consider the reasons mentioned on bistudio.com, you are basically saying that the consumer would be more happy with game release significantly delayed, or maybe even no game at all, instead of releasing the game as Steam-exclusive.

But i understand what you mean - yesterday, one of my friends wrote to me, outraged that BI dares to make the game Steam-exclusive, stating that he will not buy it just out of a "principle" - even though he doesn't have any problems with internet connection and is competent enough when it comes to handling a computer (so no Steam problems for him), but no matter what, he just hates Steam.

When i asked what does he have against Steam so much, he started complaining about Steam being a "spyware", about the possibility of having ones account suspended (and why not? if somebody is pirating, hacking, hijacking, phishing, making frauds, etc., i am all for suspending that persons account! YES!), then he added it wont be possible to play offline (where did he get that idea anyway? its not true, it is even written on bistudio.com that it will be possible), and some other nonsense i already forgot.

And as a cherry on top - he never ever used Steam before, yet he still knows "everything" about it... funny, right?

From what i've seen, not all, but majority of those who complain about Steam, are just being childish or afraid of something they don't know, without valid reason.

[runforrest 10]

@Bota:94 Thanks alot, that should do it :bounce3:

@Topic

Imho Wolle hits the nail on the head.

Most of the games i have within Steam, i dont care about any more (maybe except Skyrim), most of them were short-funstuff, or it turned out it was lost money (BRINK - oh i would love to slap splashdamage for that pile of sh.., refund? No sir!)

But with ArmA its different. I want FULL control over the ArmA that i bought, i dont want to be depended on anything. All that listed "pro points" for Steam, i never needed them in the past, i DONT need them right now, and i wont need them in the future! (Jea i know hard to believe for the facebook-sheople-crowd) I want a guarantee from Steam, that i will be able to play ArmA3 in 10 years, with whatever gameversion i will prefer, on my dedicated server or offline, with my chosen addons. I will be able to do that with ArmA2! Chances are high we wont be able to do that with ArmA 3 bound to Steam. Maybe there is no more Steam in 10 years - and dont anyone dare to tell me that is out of scope - lol. Everything is possible within the financial system on this planet, the elitist scumbags that developed and established it, had that in mind.

[rs_specter 1]

everyone whos moaning about steam, reminds me on that picture http://imageshack.us/a/img706/8077/stopcrying.png lmfao

:cool:

A lot of hate towards steam here. A lot not willing to understand that:

1. ArmA3 has an expire development date. BI is a business and they need to put their product on sale sooner rather than later. If Steam solves at least part of the logistics, i do understand the call

2. ArmA franchise kept alive for as long as it is due to its modding, and (partly) on going fixes and development process. There has been tons of requests regarding a better mod handling, an easier join server ability and auto-mod download, or at least switching mods on and off based on server preferences . I know sickboy has that fixed to a certain degree via his six upadter /play with six. That said, it is always better to have an integrated solution for it. I guess those are another part of the reason BI took the Steam linked route. Easier patching, easier mod implementation. I am a bit worries about what bink said about the IP rights and mods landing on steam workshop by people who put them there rather than the actual developer. I hope BI will have a hand in this and try and manage this resource by themselves (if possible). If not i do foresee increased issues with the modding scene.

3. Games will go towards digital download. Unfortunately, this is more than a trend, it is a a fix to the logistics and distribution problems. Yes, steam is going towards a monopoly, but for me the reason is that they have no competitors because no one else will reacg that high rather than they have a good one which they sacked on purpose. Same goes with microsoft and apple if you want. Why reinvent the wheel and spend time and money developing (and possibly failing) your own competitive solutions when there is one already free and available on the market.

4. Regarding licenses: If you were to read you DVD A2 EULA, you are licensed to use the software. You don't own the software. Surely, it is easier to give it to a friend to play it now, but than again, buying second hand games for online play is a big no no (just like with buying keys).

I do respect people who have a very stiff approach towards steam (being it pro or against) due to principles or personal or technical issues. Like Wolle, celery, xeno and so on.

There is, at least from my POV, when you put the upsides in balance with the downside, a lot of advantages for both the developers and the clients than drawbacks by using Steam and their connected services.

Very well put. I understand some people have issues with Steam, but this is what Bohemia thinks is best for their company. They have been working their asses of for us to make this beautiful game. They have been loyal with this series forever. It really pisses me off when people say Bohemia doesn't care about consumers and have "changed." No. All they are changing is the way they distribute the game in order to save themselves time and money.

[5133p39 16]

Play offline with the requirement to check once every 30 days if the conditions haven't changed and I sell my soul to Valve.

There is no requirement - it just says you should do so, to keep yourself informed, but the game will work even if you didnt go online to check any possible new conditions.

[Kuskov 1]

There is no requirement - it just says you should do so, to keep yourself informed, but the game will work even if you didnt go online to check any possible new conditions.

Are you absolutely certain about this? If I can get a 100% guarantee that this information is correct then I will have no qualms whatsoever about making the purchase. Maybe we can get a dev to verify this, I really think it would make a lot of people less apprehensive about buying the game if it's true.

[jw custom 56]

I did say yes in the poll, but not because i like Steam, but because i want the only game that means something on the market of shallow bullshit games.

Well that poll was bullshit but atleast the "i luuuve steam" / "i hate steam" text is removed, now we just need a "maybe" option. I voted NO as currently i'm leaning more towards no than yes.

First, i do not aprove of selling game you played...

I recently sold my PS3 with 25 games, should i have thrown those games in the bin?

Edited February 24, 2013 by JW Custom

[zopzodeman 2]

Okay since some people want a reason, here are three:

Aha. So I have to log into Steam at least every 30 days to check if there were no points added to the agreement in which for example I grant Valve the right to use my created content (Missions or addons) for free when- and wherever they want. If I don't do so, I agree to everything added within the 30 days. And if I don't agree to everything they add, the only way is to cancel my account - and lose my games. Decline and continue to the old conditions is not an option.

Offline mode? Yeah sure.

So if I decide to cancel my account I lose all my games, no refund, no option to give the game to someone else. Poof it's all gone! (My money too, of course)

If tomorrow I cancel my BI Store account I will still be able to use my games, I'm just no more able to download them.

So Valve can cancel my account at any time, with no reason. In which case I lose all my games and spent money (of course). It might be enough that a support clerk doesn't like the way I communicate with him.

"Nah that's not gonna happen" you say. Yeah maybe not, but the possibility is there right?

Seriously, do any of you actually read what you agree to or just click okay and hope everything will be alright (aka 'screw this wall of text, I wanna play now!!!)? Obviously, else some of you wouldn't tell us such stuff like "Steam EULA is not worse than others".

If I don't agree to the BI Store terms anymore I still have my games, no matter what. If I purchased a physical copy I have the game no matter what changes the distributor adds to his conditions.

I have four good reasons now not to use this crap. But feel free to continue praising Steam as the perfect platform which ain't that bad after all...

And now imagine STEAM suddenly decides to have a monthly subscription fee for using it , lets say 10 Euro.... all people that couldnt afford it or dont want that, loose all their games they PAID for...

[cuel 25]

Okay since some people want a reason, here are three:

All of those reasons are pretty laughable and I hate to say it but you're being very naive about this entire topic.

[tonygrunt 10]

First, i do not aprove of selling game you played, it just feels wrong, but thats only my opinion which differs from your opinion, meaning its only a matter of opinion, so we cant use it as a general reason in this discussion.

Giving away is another thing, there i tend to agree with you, yet not completely as i am still little reluctant to think it is perfectly ok to buy game, play it till the end, and then denying more business to the devs by just giving it away - it probably sounds too harsh, but if i would have to use an example: imagine you go to movies, you pay for the ticket, you watch the movie, and then you want to give the ticket to another person so he can also watch the movie. Thats not how this business works, and in my opinion it doesn't even feel right, if you want to give something to another person, nothing prevents you from buying extra ticket just for him.

So by your definition, if you bought a DVD/Bluray movie or a music CD you would never give it to another person or watch it together because it denies more business to the media holders. No movie night with your family before you buy one copy for each of them. Want to hear some music on the stereo, all the rest must leave the house.

Bought a movie and you liked it, tell your friends how good it is and they should buy it or rent it but never give them your copy. At least if he buys his own, you can meet and watch it together. Strange concept.

Or do only games have this special treatment. Why, because they don't break over time? My electric generator is 25+ years old (probably will outlive me :) ) and I borrow it to friends and family when they need it, shouldn't by your definition feel bad that I stop possible sales of generators. Really strange concept.

[zopzodeman 2]

All of those reasons are pretty laughable and I hate to say it but you're being very naive about this entire topic.

So loosing money or things that belong rightfully to you is laughable? Maybe you have money you can afford to loose? can i give you my bank account number and you send me some of that money?

Its people like you , that are responsible for the ever diminishing rights to consumers , did you ever think of that?

[eddieck 10]

All of those reasons are pretty laughable and I hate to say it but you're being very naive about this entire topic.

... You're paying full price for what is effectively a game rental. Do you not see a problem with this?

(Also, I realize Steam does discount games quite often, but I think everyone here intends on or did intend on purchasing on release day, or close to that. And while BIS hasn't announced any pricing, I find it unlikely that the price will be anything less than usual.)