Bin Laden Is Dead

[spooky lynx 73]

"I don't believe!"©Stanislavsky

Hussain's execution was broadcasted everywhere. But where's the video which shows dead Bin Laden? Where are real photos? Was he really killed, BTW?

[Baz 0]

http://youtu.be/qqTwce_ZLDw

this is Kennedy making this speech, and he was assassinated.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Baz

[NoQuarter 0]

...and start to realize that there is not good or bad guy per say, its based on perception.

Did you really just lay down the Moral Equivalency card ...in relation to UBL?

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Americans being taught not to question authority?

Yes, but it is transitory period, comparable with Germany circa 1933. And I'm not sure people would like the solution for the transit that is being cooked up. ; )

[Baz 0]

Did you really just lay down the Moral Equivalency card ...in relation to UBL?

No, I speak the truth. In order for someone to be "GOOD" there must be a "BAD" if there is no "BAD" then more scrutiny is on the "GOOD" thus you create the "BAD" to remove the attention from the "GOOD"

[NoQuarter 0]

No, I speak the truth. In order for someone to be "GOOD" there must be a "BAD" if there is no "BAD" then more scrutiny is on the "GOOD" thus you create the "BAD" to remove the attention from the "GOOD"

Not really sure that I'm following you sport, so if you don't mind, a little help.

The World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders...good or bad?

The 9/11 attacks...good or bad?

[raynor 0]

No, I speak the truth. In order for someone to be "GOOD" there must be a "BAD" if there is no "BAD" then more scrutiny is on the "GOOD" thus you create the "BAD" to remove the attention from the "GOOD"

Can I get a ticket for the roller coaster of crazy you are riding on? Of course it is a matter of perception but the difference between good and bad is that a good person may seek a peaceful resolution to the situation such as protest/speech. A bad person starts blowing shit up and that is exactly what Osama bin Laden did.

That you would hold a blinder to your eyes and say it is just a matter of perception must be a grand sort of ignorance to live in.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

The World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders...good or bad?

Depends. Soviet Union is no more, there is no duality to counter-balance the monopoly of power, thus an enemy has been created to fill the vacuum.

The 9/11 attacks...good or bad?

Depends. Would they be good, if you were the one doing the insider short-selling prior to the event?

:O

[Baz 0]

"Of course it is a matter of perception but the difference between good and bad is that a good person may seek a peaceful resolution to the situation such as protest/speech. A bad person starts blowing shit up and that is exactly what Osama bin Laden did."

under that description one could very easally make the argument that what Bush did as a response to 9/11 was bad, and the extended drone attacks into pakistan by the Obama administration is bad, and the latest being the UBL killing being classified as bad.

I don't really see us engaging in a discussion with said people, we seem to be blowing not only them up but the civilians living there too.

Perception is power in the world we live in today. If you don't see how easally public perception is being manipulated to be in favor of endless wars and global destabilization. I pray you see it before its too late.

I mean hell, Stalin wasn't such a bad guy right? He helped us rid the world of the Nazis! Sure, 1 death is a tragedy and a million is a statistic in his eyes... But he was a man who helped bring down evil.

With this type of thinking... WW3 would have occurred, such things as MAD (mutually assured destruction through nuclear weapons) would never be mentioned as it would be high treason to THINK that nobody would have victory. And such a position as detante would never occur either.

With that type of a situation such as the cold war, in every smart persons mind the only way out was diplomacy. And what happened? The USSR collapsed because they went bankrupt from all their military spending and a futile war in Afghanistan.

We are starting to see a shift to the point where thinking is no longer necessary, the government and its agents and the corporations will do that for you and tell you what is in your interests.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Baz

[frederf 0]

Pretty much you can't have a word where there's no objectivity. Unless you have some irrational values (life is valuable, help others, pain is bad) then there's no way to judge any behavior at all.

Bin Laden wasn't a bad guy like you could put some skin cells under a microscope and see the "badness" but at least 50% of the population of the planet when polled would construct a set of irrational values (see above) that would condemn him more than accept him. In that sense he's a bad guy because he's done more harm than good.

[Baz 0]

but can you agree that without the "bad guy" there can not be the "good guy"

If Batman did not have Joker to fight, then what need is there for Batman? The cops can handle the small time crooks...

[raynor 0]

but can you agree that without the "bad guy" there can not be the "good guy"

If Batman did not have Joker to fight, then what need is there for Batman? The cops can handle the small time crooks...

Working with such extremes there cannot even be a bad guy because even the worst of people have some redeeming qualities otherwise no one would tolerate their presence. Without the bad guy there are still good people doing good things you don't even think about. Ever seen a person stop their car at a wreck to see if they can help even though they could easily pass by? Your view on this subject seems so cynical that it either has to be magic healing for fame or poison clouds for infamy for it to count in your books.

[frederf 0]

I do not agree. A good guy does more good than harm. There doesn't need to be someone bad (reverse) for that person to exist and act and be good.

[ralphwiggum 6]

This is a thread for discussion of Osama bin Laden's death, NOT US's policy.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Time to close... the two are inseparable. :/

[Baz 0]

well when i'm speaking about the good guy bad guy mentality is is the type that not only the media sells us but also governments use against their people.

I was in emergency services and I know of such situations where you describe, in that very same situation where someone thinks they are doing good by stopping and helping... By not being a trained responder you can very well by removing someone from a vehicle cause them permanent paralysis due to cervical spine injury becoming exasperated by movement of patient. Which is essentially, the person is permanently disabled for life. So I can make the argument that yes, you saved said person from death... But at the same regards you gifted them from your actions of pulling them out of said vehicle without properly immobilizing them on a backboard and neck brace, a life of permanent disability and handicap.

So perception is everything in this world we live in... And it is easy to change with the right techniques and tools. Which governments have learned after WW2 Germany, what you think the USA just made moon rockets using German scientists? Most likely we also learned of the Nazi propaganda techniques since it was so effective unfortunately on the German people.

§12) Do not type in all capital letters, all bold, or in a non-black font

Typing in all caps equates (according to standard net etiquette) to yelling. It is also difficult and obnoxious to read such posts. This also applies to posting all in bold or all in a certain font colour just to try to make your words stand out, if your point is interesting enough or well written enough it will stand out. You're welcome of course to use different colours for parts of your post if it helps clarify certain areas, but typing complete messages in any colour other than black should be avoided.

[ralphwiggum 6]

Time to close... the two are inseparable. :/

Why don't you stay away from this thread? That way people can actually talk about the event without engaging in politics?

§12) Do not type in all capital letters, all bold, or in a non-black font

Typing in all caps equates (according to standard net etiquette) to yelling. It is also difficult and obnoxious to read such posts. This also applies to posting all in bold or all in a certain font colour just to try to make your words stand out, if your point is interesting enough or well written enough it will stand out. You're welcome of course to use different colours for parts of your post if it helps clarify certain areas, but typing complete messages in any colour other than black should be avoided.

Think about WHY I did it.

[dmarkwick 261]

Time to close... the two are inseparable. :/

Indeed :) The reason OBL is dead is as valid a topic of discussion as the fact that he's dead.

[walker 0]

Hi all

The case of killing Bin Laden is for the American public in general, largely the issue that they shout: One of Justice.

Many others in this forum mix up what a Government wants with what the people want. Not surprising as in every nation we are taught from an early age to want what our Governments want and this is supported by our country's Media feeding us information to support the view of the world they are pushing.

So hense Iraquois Pliskin does what his government wants

DMarkwick does what his government wants

Baz does what his government wants

Frederf does what his government wants

Raynor does what his government wants

Lugiahua does what his government wants

RalphWiggum does what his government wants

Spooky Lynx does what his government wants

4 IN 1 does what his government wants

YOU DO what YOUR government wants

Walker does what his government wants

... does what his government wants

...

We are all manipulated by the inputs we receive.

I am manipulating you all now; by what I write in this post and you all do the same in your turn.

Bin Laden did it too.

Our minds adjust to the stimulus we receive same as any other Neural Net.

Stimulus = Response.

I invite you to read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

Bin Laden attacks you, you fight back or you roll over and present your throat. Your choice. Stimulus = Response.

Bin Laden attacks your neighbour. You aid your Neighbour or you join Bin Laden in attacking your neighbour or you stay well out or you bay at the sidelines. Stimulus = Response.

Debating in this forum you lay out your view of the world and those around you do the same. Some use reasoned argument. Some use insults to cow their opponents. Some Bay from the side lines egging others on to do their dirty work. Some troll to remove enemies and increase the chaos, perhaps hoping to catch a moment to grab the flag and run, pretending to be at the front and shouting Follow Me. The Bolsheviks did.

We do these things because of how we see the world and we want every one to see it our way because then it becomes easier for us to survive.

But none of us see the whole world or every-ones viewpoint.

If we are brave we try to see if the other person has a point

BUT news up people!

Sometimes another persons view of the world can kill you!

Or did you not know that?

Well me I wanted Bin Laden dead. I do not think Donald Rumsfeld or Dick Cheney or Karl Rove wanted him dead because at Tora Bora when they had multiple chances to kill him they did not. I think they wanted him alive as a bogeyman to excuse other wars.

I think President Obama took a different view and has presented a more successful policy on making the world safer. He stopped supporting the dictators and one by one they are falling. A much better and more successful policy than the wars policy of the previous regime.

I think a certain source that I am not alowed to mention on this forum has helped and has on occasions been used oportunisticly by the US administration as a catalyst for action.

I also think the internet has been one of the biggest sources of this change.

But in killing Bin Laden, President Obama has fulfilled the wishes of his people and shown himself capable of tough action when necassary; so good for him.

More News up people:

The Muslim world is not bothered, mostly due to Obama's successful policy on removing dictators in the Muslim world, and the fact that Bin Laden was not even Muslim, he was Wahhabi.

As to Bin Laden I think he was a danger TO ME AND MINE and that is why I think it acceptable to kill him in Pakistan.

I make my reasons for that clear in threads like this:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=72821

You might like to contribute there.

Kind Regards walker

Edited May 3, 2011 by walker

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

gTmqTnv_k0E

See you at the Victory Parade.

You are indeed correct as to the inputs and stimulation by the forces that are in control of such processes, such as, for an example - the demolition of three sky-scrapers, all three being, each, a steel-core assembly & outer steel shell reinforced buildings, reduced to dust in the event that had transpired many moons ago.

If an asteroid, five kilometres in diametre does land in the Pacific today, I would be taking the very same reactionary action, as in the in the above example with the sole difference between you & me being, that I most likely would be heading in the opposite direction of the rising and the expanding shock waves, and tsunamis among other things, probably seeking higher ground to wait out the cataclysm. Edited May 3, 2011 by Iroquois Pliskin

[walker 0]

Hi Iroquois Pliskin

Your video and if it is your view of the world; then it too, is out of date.

The world is far more fractured and diverse now.

Power groups you are missing:

Wahhabi Saudi Arabia and its satelites Pakistan being the main one.

Multinational corporations

India

the Internetati (all those people who present the views on forums like this)

Global Media empires

Google

Apple

Supranational bodies, eg WTO

etc

I think your view may be slightly stuck in a national/geographical time warp.

Kind Regards walker

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

walker, it is more monolith than ever: Multinational corporations with the support of supranational bodies (WTO, IMF, UN) against everybody else.

I'm not against what is happening, as I said, I welcome it, but you need to understand the underlying cause for it, it is for freedom, liberty, justice? It's a simple business decision being implemented via the military power - any resource, any where, at any time to be available to any one at any price that is being asked.

That's the way it is, that's the way I am, and I can't help myself by pretending to be delusional to support some rose-tinted fiction upheld by the masses. Everything else is sock-puppet circus. I hereby request a ban to be put unto myself, if I ever post in this thread again. ;)

[mrcash2009 0]

This is a thread for discussion of Osama bin Laden's death, NOT US's policy.

You can only discuss a mans death for so long, and then, hes dead. So if this is the case, lock the thread, make it a sticky.

Otherwise how can you possibly moderate a thread on that course alone and NOT get talk about policy or anything else surrounding this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13256676

Bin Laden was shot dead at a compound near Islamabad, in a ground operation based on US intelligence, the first lead for which emerged last August.

Mr Obama said US forces took possession of the body after "a firefight".

Bin Laden is believed to have ordered the attacks on New York and Washington on 11 September 2001 and a number of others.

A nice slab of newspeak, how touching. I watched Sky news for about 20 mins last night and, well, it was like watching Disney mixed with a story out of COD for the kiddies, fucking pathetic (my own view of course) ;) Edited May 3, 2011 by mrcash2009

[walker 0]

Hi all

The Muslim world is not bothered or indeed welcome the fact that Bin laden is dead.

Proof?

The biggest Pro Bin Laden demo in the Muslim world was 25 people and a Dog who turned up to a pro Bin Laden demo in Gaza

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/world/breakingnews/gaza-demonstrators-gather-to-memorialize-bin-laden-121143599.html

The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt said that his death will help stem terrorism:

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/middleeast/news/article_1636460.php/Muslim-Brotherhood-Bin-Laden-death-will-stem-terrorism

but it would be better if he had been tried in court.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/egypt-muslim-brotherhood-bin-laden-tried

Al Qaeda's power in the world is on the wane mainly because Muslims have realised that Wahhabism is not Islamic but also because the current US government has stopped supporting the dictators.

Saudi Arabia's support of Wahhabism will wane too due to pressure from other Muslim states to remove the burning of Islamic Korans by the Saudi Wahhabis in order to replace the Islamic Korans of Muslims with Wahhabi Korans that have the Wahhabi additions in them.

Bin Laden's Wahhabi Al Qaeda has killed ten times more Muslims than Crusaders. They are just Terrorists bent on finding a route to power for Wahhabism. It is all about Money and Power with Wahhabis.

The clamour for the Wahhabis to stop burning and shredding Korans will only grow in the Muslim world. Wahhabism will decline.

Kind Regards walker

Edited May 3, 2011 by walker

[mrcash2009 0]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1383025/Five-men-arrested-suspicion-terror-offences-Sellafield-nuclear-power-plant.html

Notice 5 men in 20's (they can do a lot I bet), notice no direct links, but notice it makes front-line news, links to terrorism and also is next to Nuclear plant. More on nuclear later it seems (seems to be the buzz link word at the moment)....

BTW you had a woman from a major security firm with plastic explosives at 2012 Olympics site, and that was swept quite quickly under the carpet, love the media, all good when it fits and is required.

Section 41 of the Terrorism Act 2000 allows a police officer to arrest any person whom he 'reasonably suspects' to be a terrorist.

Yeh, makes so much sense. How about targets and requires legal go ahead to arrest individuals known to be terrorists or linked pre arrest? Its also worthy checking out difference of "officer" and "constable" .. that is quite a big one. Effectively a singe officer has the mentality to suspect someone directly with "terror" .. that's basicly a man in a suite given power to make that judgement, and that's based on his perception of that term. And thus you have this latest news article (of which the "nuclear" part is its only reason for being pushed). Edited May 3, 2011 by mrcash2009