Bin Laden Is Dead

[ricbar89 0]

Hi ricbar89

Have you got source for what they were "Apparenty" doing?

Kind Regards walker

No, and why would i need one?

[walker 0]

No, and why would i need one?

Hi ricbar89

Because you just chastised me for making clear that I was expressing an opinion by stating "I think", and that you then, for whatever reason, mistakenly took as fact.

I clearly seperated what was opinion and personal belief from what was fact and used facts to support the views I expressed.

And now you are describing that something as if it "apparently" happened without providing proof it did.

Kind Regards walker

[ricbar89 0]

Hi ricbar89

Because you just chastised me for making clear that I was expressing an opinion by stating "I think", and that you then, for whatever reason, mistakenly took as fact.

I clearly seperated what was opinion and personal belief from what was fact and used facts to support the views I expressed.

And now you are describing that something as if it "apparently" happened without providing proof it did.

Kind Regards walker

Read my post again, i didnt say you didnt separate opinion from fact, i said was you make your opinion sound like fact.

Just an observation.

The last part i dont even know what you're on about. Why do i need proof for anything again?

[walker 0]

Hi ricbar89

Read my post again, i didnt say you didnt separate opinion from fact, i said was you make your opinion sound like fact.

Just an observation...

Hence why I use a phrase like "I think" to reduce the chance of such a wrong understanding.

...The last part i dont even know what you're on about. Why do i need proof for anything again?

Because by using the word "Apparently" you are saying your statement is: manifest, or in some way visible, or evident (in other words something for which there is evidence). Yet I can see no indication or source to support such a statement.

...Apparently they even went house to house in the surrounding area to make sure noone had done a runner, probably to collect info from the local population as well.

Unless of course you have some manifest evidence such as witness statements to that effect or a news report stating such or a video of them doing so.

Perhaps the word "Maybe" would have been a better choice of word to substitute? Or what about the phase "I think"

Kind Regards walker

Edited May 4, 2011 by walker

[ricbar89 0]

Hi ricbar89

Hence why I use a phrase like "I think" to reduce the chance of such a wrong understanding.

Because use the word "Apparently" you are saying your statement is: manifest, or in some way visible, or evident (in other words something for which there is evidence). Yet I can see no indication or source to support such a statement.

Unless of course you have some manifest evidence such as witness statements to that effect or a news report stating such or a video of them doing so.

Perhaps the word "Maybe" would have been a better choice of word to substitute? Or what about the phase "I think"

Kind Regards walker

My god are you really getting chippy because of the work i used. No i dont have proof, i recall reading it somewhere yesterday, and frankly i cant be arsed to find it. Im not looking for some huge debate i know you love.

And if were getting chippy over words "maybe" or "i think" would imply i was guessing, which i wasnt.

[Tostaky 10]

Hi all,

Sorry if it's a repost...

But for bin Laden, who might well have met martyrdom with many of his followers at Tora Bora, such was his megalomaniacal conception of his importance that he believed his greatest contribution to the movement would be to ensure his own survival, even as those around him were martyred for the cause.

It may seem an odd analogy, but I am put in mind of a former Hollywood celebrity who had long since been personally repudiated by the public, whose death a number of years ago was described unkindly by one wag as a "good career move".

The same might easily be said of Osama bin Laden. He might appear to have died with a bang. But he had long since died with a whimper.

Robert Grenier retired from the CIA in 2006, following a 27-year career in the CIA’s Clandestine Service...

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/05/20115272712668919.html

Does the death of Osama bin Laden announce the end of the war in Afghanistan ?

[max power 21]

I was under the impression that the "directed thrust" did provide directional control. I'll admit I'm no expert on it, and I've not worked on any NOTAR aircraft but every time its been explained to me and every time i've looked into it myself the direction of the exhaust has seemed to be a key aspect?

Oh, it does. It took me reading your conversation actually to figure out what exactly I thought about that system. I think I also thought what you're thinking. I even read a book that explains NOTAR quite clearly and still thought it had something to do with the engine exhaust. I guess it had something to do with ideas I had prior to reading the book, possibly when I first learned of NOTAR when I played LHX Attack Chopper at the age of 12. But, thinking about it rationally, (if I understand correctly) turboshaft engines don't actually produce much thrust from the exhaust, and I think the thrust is supplied by a fan that is driven by the transmission. I guess you can say that in a free turbine type arrangement that the transmission is driven by the exhaust, but I think it's not the exhaust itself that's coming out of the coanda slots. The book I was referring to says, "both the air needed for the tangential blowing and the jet nozzle are provided by a fan within the tailboom of the aircraft".

Edited May 4, 2011 by Max Power

[Mr. Charles 22]

Does the death of Osama bin Laden announce the end of the war in Afghanistan ?

Frankly, i hope it does not. As the leave of NATO troops would mean that the Taliban would take over again and the last ten years were useless work.

[mrcash2009 0]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13287977

No release of Bin Laden photos

US officials had been discussing whether to publish pictures of Bin Laden's body to counter conspiracy theories that he did not die.:581:

Dear me I think its more about he died way before this, I think that was the point ... haha, dear me, media rules. Funny how Sadam who had nothing to do with 9/11 was hanged and put on TV with it almost for all to view and his brothers etc like some reality TV show, I mean that would insight people to come over and have a go wouldn't it?

the leave of NATO troops would mean that the Taliban would take over again and the last ten years were useless work.

Doesnt that answer itself like a snake eating its tail? Edited May 4, 2011 by mrcash2009

[Zipper5 74]

Funny how Sadam who had nothing to do with 9/11 was hanged and put on TV with it.

Footage of his hanging was leaked onto the internet, rather than officially released.

[mrcash2009 0]

And it was never blocked at any time either (and media made it fully aware it was online to watch), and doesn't alter the fact we had his brothers slapped on TV, point being that when it suits its fine and when its massively inconvenient its lock down, .... or .... its bollocks :)

Edited May 4, 2011 by mrcash2009

[Mr. Charles 22]

Doesnt that answer itself like a snake eating its tail?

Not a native speaker, what do you want to say? :o

[gammadust 12]

I believe he means that your argument supports those who raised the question: Why go there in the first place?...

That is, the argument bites you back, blowsback in the hands of who uses it.

I agree.

[Binkowski 25]

thread title says it all.

awwyeah.

[Opticalsnare 12]

I wanna know what the helicopter that crashed was.

[Akira 0]

I wanna know what the helicopter that crashed was.

Stealth Blackhawks are apparently operational.

[wolf359 19]

after the pieces slowly come together my respect for the potential scale and bravery of the operation grows more and more. This was probably the most important and daring special operation in recent years.

As the stakes were high as can be and the preparation took many years some equipment may have been specially designed for this mission (Sir Barnes Neville Wallis did this in another global war before). We may have seen a historic raid similar to the raids on Eben Emael 1940, the Pegasus Bridge 1944, Son Tay 1970 or Entebbe 1976. (see airborne raids: http://www.airpower.au.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1984/mar-apr/shani.html)

The following is far-fetched speculation on events a few nights ago based on some facts:

The stealthy "Beast of Kandahar" (RQ 170 Desert Prowler) makes much more sense now in this context for stealthy ELINT or relais purposes in Pakistan:

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2011/05/report-rq-170-spied-over-osama.html

The question why there were F22 fighters in the middle east that did not take part in the Libya operations may have been answered:

http://aviationintel.com/?p=556

How did the unknown Helicopter look like and what did it potentially do?:

Not well known photos of the tail section providing scale information:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?197635-The-mysterious-helicopter-involved-in-the-Osama-Bin-Laden-raid/page23

Silenthawk concept aircraft:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=155097

http://i56.tinypic.com/2zqr4us.jpg

other designs

http://cencio4.wordpress.com/2011/05/04/black-helo-down/

http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=9714

The unknown helicopter landed in the compounds "trash burning location" (http://media.star-telegram.com/smedia/2011/05/02/11/BinLaden.standalone.prod_affiliate.58.jpg) inside

the 10 feet wall as can be seen on Sat-pictures taken 10 hours after the raid:

http://maptd.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/geoeye-abbottabad-satellite-image-zoomed-in1.jpg

crash landing a helicopter in a compound was done before in the assault phase Operation Kingpin of Operation Ivory Coast - the Son Tay Raid of 1970 to get an assault team of 14 men in quickly. I would expect this to be much faster than fast roping more like an assault glider raid in WW2.

Details on Son Tay:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ivory_Coast

http://home.earthlink.net/~aircommando1/SONTAYRA1.htm

Let´s even go a step further:

Why were the tail rotor blades not damaged on impact ? It almost looks that those were not turning on impact:

http://sitelife.aviationweek.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/0/14/8065b635-752f-4a63-ae97-84beaff28a19.Full.jpg

Most tail rotors have an override clutch that is used in the case of autorotation to stop the tail rotor using up valuable kinetic energy of the main rotor.

Deliberately autorotating a (damaged or undamaged ?) stealthy helicopter inside a compound with armed terrorists and a very high value target would be one of the most unusual special operations there ever was.

It is hard to imagine a noise and LO treated helicopter coming in to land from high above silently in a HALO mode without engine noise and the interaction of the rotors and dropping the initial assault team.

see a video (loud) of a helicopter assault on a compound similar to Casa Osama (see the helicopters arriving at 1:14)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-eA_7dSTDQ&feature=fvst

See a Video for Autorotation training on spot landing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2a9H8Xw8Mo&feature=related

listen to the noise of a noise treated main rotor blade:

Eurocopter Blue Edge Rotor

Listen to the sound during autorotation:

http://exposureroom.com/members/paulcronin/ba4943104eec42589941f87b5624914c/

I do not know if the Blackhawk stops turning it´s tail rotor during autorotation: OPERATOR’S MANUAL FOR UH-60Q HELICOPTER

http://www.flyboys.com.br/flyboy/acervo/Manuais/Helicopteros/UH-60Q%20Blackhawk%20Operator%20Manual.pdf

This silent approach makes operational sense and I would like to "Take On" this crazy mission BI ! :)

[walker 0]

Hi all

Army Times is saying it was a Stealth Blackhawk:

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/05/army-mission-helocopter-was-secret-stealth-black-hawk-050411/

I think wolf359's analysis of auto rotation to reduce noise in the final phase of ingress has considerable merit.

Kind Regards Walker

Edited May 5, 2011 by walker

[Heatseeker 0]

Looking at the past decade it seems highly hypocritical to celebrate Osamas death with the enthusiasm im witnessing, celebrating the death of a man responsible for taking ~3000 north american lives while the former US president is responsible for the loss of ~4500 north american lives in Iraq alone? In Afghanistan some 1500 north americans have been lost since 2001 too so simply put 6000 Men were sacrificed to avenge 3000, and lets not forget the tens of thousands of wounded, the coalition losses, aid workers, media..

Now i cant be bothered to look up how many "terrorists" the US/NATO/Coalition Forces eliminated because im positive that these numbers are hard to get (and are probably way off) but im pretty sure that by invading foreign countries the number of "terrorists" increased dramatically.

And ofcourse the worst part, the civilians of said foreign countries, the dead and wounded. 100.000? 1.000.000?

I dont feel for Bin Laden but if you ask me this BS war of terror isnt worth it.

[Akira 0]

Oh yeah.

Let us not forget that we just crashed a top secret helicopter that few knew was on the drawing board let alone operational in a country that is none to happy with us right now.

[Laqueesha 474]

A stealth Blackhawk helo? Didn't even know such a thing existed. Now that I think about it, the debris in the photos look odd for a regular Blackhawk, such as the shape of the fins and tail rotor, etc.

[Dosenmais 10]

Bin Laden is dead for 10 years :rolleyes:.

Imagine the old Bin Laden with all his liver and kidney diseases, carries a dialysis machine in on hand, an AK in the other and had his final showdown with the Navy Seal Hitteam.

This story will save obamas re-election.

If you want to know whats going on:

Bin Laden Family Evacuated

FBI 'was told to back off bin Laden family'

FBI.gov : Most wanted : Usama Bin Laden

Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam,

Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. These attacks killed over 200 people. In addition, Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world.

If you want to take the blue pill:

Yeah, Team america, we got them, yeaaah

Edited May 5, 2011 by Dosenmais

[maturin 12]

If you want to know whats going on:

Bin Laden Family Evacuated

FBI 'was told to back off bin Laden family'

Because Bin Laden's family is immense and most of them have no ties with him. (They are friends with the Bushes instead.

)

[/url]

So you take the word of random Pakistanis on the street, yet the entire U.S. government is lying. Now we know what's in those red pills.

[Dosenmais 10]

yet the entire U.S. government is lying.

Nooo, the government would never ever lie to us. :D

Hey, you need an ID Card for those living areas. The higher middle class lives there, also some military and ISI officers in their a little bit rotten official residence, no way Bin Laden lives there for 5 years. No Way.

These People in these countrys don't live like we live. We living in this oversized cities and even don't know our neighbors, but they know each other. They know their neighbors, what they are doing and in most cases even their families.

So, their is no way Osama could live their for 5 years and nobody would notice this. No way man, no way.

Stupid propaganda circus.

[rangerpl 13]

The bin Laden family is a very large Saudi family, many of whom are wealthy, law-abiding citizens and subjects of the Saudi King. They are not linked to Al Qaeda's activities. Osama Bin Laden is a member of this family, however he is not supported by them and has been "disowned".