A view of ArmA II multiplayer from a TF2, CSS, BF2 player

[sickboy 13]

Point out anywhere in that where he criticizes the mission and/or Xeno, and not the players/servers.

There's a lot more posts than just the OP's post, and there's more threads on the matter as well :)

[Zipper5 74]

He never referenced who "you" was in his post, so I presumed he meant the OP. To me it seems more like people are more annoyed with how often, and how, the mission is played. They don't actually seem to have a dislike for Xeno and/or his work.

[Bee8190 10]

Regardless of what some ppl think about domination I'd like to take this opportunity and say thank you, to Xeno, Benny and to whomever have been involved in creations of the mod.

I think its great starting place for absolute newcomers like I once was and while i can appreciate good SP mission, I always prefered MP.

It is the place where you get the chance to talk to ppl and say; hey dudes, after some fidling with singleplayer I'd like to take it to next level and see what's MP is about, so im open to all suggestions and your help ll be greatly apprechiated!

Newcomers playing domi needs something to begin with before they realize that this game offers various other mods too.btw,Honestly, how many of ya took the iniciative and instead of crying or you took a newcomer and said, join this channel i'm gonna take you trough and this is how we play:cool:

As of the nonperfection regarding bugs n stuff, I though arma itself has got some least to say

[Arksa 10]

There's usually 1 or 2 full warfare servers with 52 players after 2 PM (GMT) that require no addons to join, only optional ones.

Then again warfare might take some time to get a hang of.

What I was thinking when I saw Arma 2 on steam top sales the last few days was that what percentage of those players actually get to play on a good server with people that are ready to help them AND also a game type they like. I would say a lot of the people go "this game is dead blah only few servers with more than 10 I go back to CoD or whatever".

[Pummel 10]

I found the solution to all your problems! Click "Filter" and then in game type, click on "Capture the Island". Tada! The greatest war gaming experience you have ever seen awaits!

:)

[d3lta 10]

I Agree, ACE2 and a lot of mods, prevent players try and play the best this game has. Because this, I really like of scripts embedded in the missions, easy for editor, easy for players.

ACE'2 is a big problem to a newcorner to install and enjoy appropriately and quickly, always we needs pay hours of support. Sound packs, geometry packs, clothes packs, weapons packs, maps packs, too..

With a lot of difficults, in the end, we settled it is hard to enough players to test more advanced ideas!!

yes!! Domination is a mess with public servers, where many beginners end up knowing ARMA , and never come back....

Bohemia, we need´s better mod system, a auto installation mod system (AIMS). A better developer system for the missiomakers, too. ;)

Sorry, my english is not enough...... =(

Best regards...

---------- Post added at 06:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------

Getting lots of kills or a high score cannot involve teamwork, fair play, or fun?

I do not think so. Many tasks involved in this game not only kill, but protect, monitor, infiltrate, may end without firing a shot.

But, a centralized system of medals would be a good idea for Arma2 or 3. :)

Edited April 29, 2011 by D3lta

[maturin 12]

We don't need more control over players, we need control over MP server UI.

Mod servers should be strictly segregated from non-mod servers, and there should be a clearly-visible and intuitive checklist to accomplish this from the start, not an annoying filter search field.

[Pummel 10]

Domination is a mess with public servers, where many beginners end up knowing ARMA , and never come back....

Yes :(

[householddog 10]

I kind of agree with a lot of the points made.

For a start, there are far too few players, even on full servers, to justify the map size.

If we were talkign about 2500 a side pvp then the maps would be close to ideal.

In order to get a decent pvp experience you really need to limit the map sizes a fair bit.

I have been playing warfare BE, a fair bit. I could only say that, after 3 hours of playing, I actually was shot at once, by a human player.

For the most part Warfare is bot vs bot. The game becomes, a fairly poor, strategy game, rather than a combat simulator.

There is also the huge driving distances too. Which would be interesting, if you might actually be ambushed, or have to fight for the roads. Again though, the map is too large. There are too many opportunities to avoid the enemy, when moving from town to town.

There is also no incentive to setup ambushes away from towns, becasue there is a slim chance that anyone will drive by.

Again, this would not be an issue on a 2500 player map.

This is actually a real disappointment to me, in some ways. The weapon handling, in this game, is excellent.

Maybe I am just missing some game modes, that have fallen by the wayside, however.

Playing against, or with bots, is very dull.

[Arksa 10]

I have been playing warfare BE, a fair bit. I could only say that, after 3 hours of playing, I actually was shot at once, by a human player.

For the most part Warfare is bot vs bot. The game becomes, a fairly poor, strategy game, rather than a combat simulator.

There is also the huge driving distances too. Which would be interesting, if you might actually be ambushed, or have to fight for the roads. Again though, the map is too large. There are too many opportunities to avoid the enemy, when moving from town to town.

There is also no incentive to setup ambushes away from towns, becasue there is a slim chance that anyone will drive by.

Again, this would not be an issue on a 2500 player map.

This is actually a real disappointment to me, in some ways. The weapon handling, in this game, is excellent.

Maybe I am just missing some game modes, that have fallen by the wayside, however.

If you want to get shot more often than in 3 hours, get to the full 52 player servers that play Takistan and don't wander around instead go for a town that is under attack. I swear you get clipped every 10 minutes if you actually do what you're supposed but are bad at it :).

And where I play its not bot vs bot it's mostly player vs player with bots as a little backup. I've played about 1000 hours of this game mode and nothing else and still not bored with the "poor strategy game" you claim it is. Each to his own I guess.

Huge driving distance? Depends how bad your commander is at placing bases and then depends on what driving distance is huge. And if you think anything more than 2 KM is crazy, then this is the wrong game for you.

Slim chance that anyone will drive by? You mean after they take one of your towns, and are about to go for the next one? Will they go home after they took that one town or will they continue for the next? Again, only depends where you place your ambush rather than go to a random place between 2 towns.

2500 player map? People at the server think Takistan is TOO SMALL with 52 players. Remember they buy tanks, they move with vehicles that go 100 km/h even uphill and they buy choppers and planes. I don't know what game your looking for here. Probably the one where you will get shot immediately in 30 seconds after you join if you don't start running. This is warfare, not team fortress.

Okay, next, too many opportunities to avoid the enemy. With how many players again? Tell that to the guy in a Cobra that it's too easy to avoid it. Or the guy watching you with a Metis on a hilltop. Or Abrams. Where I play it's a problem sometimes to get out of base because of air domination.

And just because you can flank a town from a different direction other than the road doesn't really make it too easy to avoid. I would like to know more why you think this is a problem.

Did you stumble on the server with 14 players in it and then after 3 hours it was 8 players?

I know the game is not for everyone but anyone who actually plays warfare regularly in a full server knows that what you say doesn't really make much sense. Then again it's your opinion so you can have it but don't tell everyone what is what when people on the real servers love how warfare works and I believe they have way more game hours behind them.

Edited April 30, 2011 by Arksa

[householddog 10]

If you want to get shot more often than in 3 hours, get to the full 52 player servers that play Takistan and don't wander around instead go for a town that is under attack. I swear you get clipped every 10 minutes if you actually do what you're supposed but are bad at it :).

That is my point, however. All the action takes place in town.

The countryside you drive around rarely see's that much action, on the servers I play. 32 players solid.

In warfare BE it's mainly against bots to begin with. Which is fairly disappointing, considering the LOS issues the game suffers from.

I was sitting there letting my ai take out the other bots and I rolled over to see some of them firing at the enemy through tree leaves. So obviously there is some issue there.

Maybe I am not playing it right, but perhaps you could instruct me on what I am doing wrong?

And where I play its not bot vs bot it's mostly player vs player with bots as a little backup. I've played about 1000 hours of this game mode and nothing else and still not bored with the "poor strategy game" you claim it is. Each to his own I guess.

I like to play infantry, which is where I think this game really shines. For that you need a pretty large squad to remain viable.

Huge driving distance? Depends how bad your commander is at placing bases and then depends on what driving distance is huge. And if you think anything more than 2 KM is crazy, then this is the wrong game for you.

I had a number of times where I was spending around 7 minutes driving. Which is a bit of a slog, when you are trying to have fun.

Slim chance that anyone will drive by? You mean after they take one of your towns, and are about to go for the next one? Will they go home after they took that one town or will they continue for the next? Again, only depends where you place your ambush rather than go to a random place between 2 towns.

Again it centres 90% of the combat, in towns. Whereas I would like to see more countryside combat.

2500 player map? People at the server think Takistan is TOO SMALL with 52 players. Remember they buy tanks, they move with vehicles that go 100 km/h even uphill and they buy choppers and planes. I don't know what game your looking for here. Probably the one where you will get shot immediately in 30 seconds after you join if you don't start running.

This is warfare, not team fortress.

I have not insulted you, please do not insult me.

Lets look at it from this perspective.

If we are talking about a real life engagement. How many troops would you send to capture, and hold around about 20 towns, villages and airports?

How many troops, would the US send to this situation.

I would say 2500 would be a bare minimum.

I would love to see one a mod that was simply infantry, no bots, maybe light transport, and encompassing perhaps 2-3 towns. Then you would have firefights all over the place. In the town, mountains, roads etc etc

Okay, next, too many opportunities to avoid the enemy. With how many players again? Tell that to the guy in a Cobra that it's too easy to avoid it. Or the guy watching you with a Metis on a hilltop. Or Abrams. Where I play it's a problem sometimes to get out of base because of air domination.

And just because you can flank a town from a different direction other than the road doesn't really make it too easy to avoid. I would like to know more why you think this is a problem.

Did you stumble on the server with 14 players in it and then after 3 hours it was 8 players?

I was on a 32 player server. It was full.

games.on.net

I know the game is not for everyone but anyone who actually plays warfare regularly in a full server knows that what you say doesn't really make much sense.

Then again it's your opinion so you can have it but don't tell everyone what is what when people on the real servers love how warfare works and I believe they have way more game hours behind them.

Again, I must have touched a nerve somewhere. Could you please rephrase this, without insulting me.

It's not as if Arma 2 is the only thing in my life, but I have been playing it for a while and can see a few flaws in it.

To be honest I find your whole attitude pretty condescending. To anyone reading it, can make their own minds up, as to whether you posts are valid or not.

Although I have never really played Team Fortress, you post reminds me of that kind of player.

Using video games as some sort of status symbol, then pathetically trying to impress people in a forum with it.

Some reading for you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compensation_(psychology)

Sad.

(now I have insulted you)

Having said that, I am quite happy to debate my post with someone who brings up things, in a reasonable way.

Edited April 30, 2011 by householddog

[Birdseye 0]

another way to improve teamplay, is to make fatique / stamina dependent if teammates are in the area.

, and a parameter in the mission, which can set the range / ratio.

[sickboy 13]

ACE'2 is a big problem to a newcorner to install and enjoy appropriately and quickly, always we needs pay hours of support

If you need to pay hours of support re ACE2, then you're doing something wrong. The mod is designed for MP, distributed with easy to use tools designed for MP, documented etc.

You can even setup a single click solution for any server, to join directly with the required mods and settings. Next to non support needed.

If you need hours of support I'd recommend revisiting your strategy.

http://six.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Six_Updater+Communities

http://six.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Six_Updater+zSync_Setup

Example @ http://www.alphasquad.net

http://updater.dev-heaven.net/mods/nested/a546d346-a754-11de-b50f-0021855d3b6d (open in SU links)

Besides, there are plenty of non-ACE, or even mod-less servers out there.

Edited April 30, 2011 by Sickboy

[d3lta 10]

I kind of agree with a lot of the points made.

For a start, there are far too few players, even on full servers, to justify the map size.

If we were talkign about 2500 a side pvp then the maps would be close to ideal.

In order to get a decent pvp experience you really need to limit the map sizes a fair bit.

I have been playing warfare BE, a fair bit. I could only say that, after 3 hours of playing, I actually was shot at once, by a human player.

For the most part Warfare is bot vs bot. The game becomes, a fairly poor, strategy game, rather than a combat simulator.

There is also the huge driving distances too. Which would be interesting, if you might actually be ambushed, or have to fight for the roads. Again though, the map is too large. There are too many opportunities to avoid the enemy, when moving from town to town.

There is also no incentive to setup ambushes away from towns, becasue there is a slim chance that anyone will drive by.

Again, this would not be an issue on a 2500 player map.

This is actually a real disappointment to me, in some ways. The weapon handling, in this game, is excellent.

Maybe I am just missing some game modes, that have fallen by the wayside, however.

Playing against, or with bots, is very dull.

size of the map, is no problem. Missionmakers can to delimit a area for players, better, a random zone delimited. This is a advanced feature of Arma ,using scripts.

Best Regards.

---------- Post added at 01:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:19 PM ----------

If you need to pay hours of support re ACE2, then you're doing something wrong. The mod is designed for MP, distributed with easy to use tools designed for MP, documented etc.

You can even setup a single click solution for any server, to join directly with the required mods and settings. Next to non support needed.

If you need hours of support I'd recommend revisiting your strategy.

http://six.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Six_Updater+Communities

http://six.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Six_Updater+zSync_Setup

Example @ http://www.alphasquad.net

http://updater.dev-heaven.net/mods/nested/a546d346-a754-11de-b50f-0021855d3b6d (open in SU links)

Besides, there are plenty of non-ACE, or even mod-less servers out there.

Hi sickboy

I played in a great clan in the past, they had a guy just to teach beginners how to use tools SixUpdate, addonsync, Aceclipp, ArmaLaunch (mod selection), a manual not always efficient . This guy who gave support, spent more time helping everyone who wanted to play than actually playing, creating problems, nobody wanted this job in the clan. Time is money. I know many people who simply gave up after seeing so many things you need to configure and download MODs. Sure, it's super simple to us started, but who is beginning, it can be a demotivating factor and so, even when they only play TF2, CS, and other junk.

If the server had an automatic synchronization scheme, novice players simply would connect to it and download the updates, without anyone intervening. Quick play and be happy.

Best Regards!!

[sickboy 13]

Well people are generally lazy, like not reading, if you decide to make that your problem then sure you'll have few time playing and a lot of time supporting.

Admirable ofcourse, but it's a choice with clear consequence.

I kow all about it as i've done it for years too. At some point I decided not to be the one man personal support army anymore and instead use my time to develop documentation and tools, and it's working out fine in my community :)

Additionally, it is an inherent problem of the game, multiplayer, mods, people, etc, not limited to ACE.

IMO the solution is using all assets available to you, from tools to documentation and beyond, perhaps even a small package that handles everything especially tailored for your server/community, like Armatec does for CityLife, while making use of Six Updater.

Works much better than being support-slave, and it works uniformally - for all mods the same (at least when talking about Six Updater), and hopefully also for many servers the same at some point.

So instead of everyone having all kinds of manual steps and special support, you can rely on uniformal tools, documentation and procedures.

The game does not provide any of that at this point, perhaps in the future, who knows, but waiting for it doesn't solve your problems today.

Many people/communities/servers are experiencing these problems, and each is trying to fight it on their own, in their own way,

which might work out for some, and not for others, but I think together we can achieve it much better / greater.

Edited April 30, 2011 by Sickboy

[S-M 10]

The way i usually do it, is that i 99% of the time play public MP on one clans public server, they police it well, and things are usually done pretty tactically.

I run whatever mods they run (usually just ACE) so i have no need to mess about with shortcuts and such, if nobody is on the clans public server, then i will brave the public and run without ACE picking the most populated server available with the lowest ping.

This usually results in a game of Domination though ;) i have had a few "tactical" dom games, but they are few and far between in my experience.

Now i have to say this, in the past i have utterly bashed the Sixupdater to pieces for being IMHO totally crap and unfriendly to newbies, but the new version i installed a few weeks back after coming back to Arma was a joy to use, seriously if this version was released in the beginning then a lot more people would have been happier.

My main complaint back then was about the bloody confusing way you had to use it (confusing for the average bloke who just wants to game) i utterly hated it, i voiced my opinions about it, and was told by the clever people that i should basically become more clever and learn how to use, it was shit!

The new one is brilliant IMHO

I wanted to join a server with a setup i never had, it checked that i was all up to date and launched the game for me putting me on that server, fantastic.

[pathetic_berserker 4]

Way I see it , about 95% of this thread is probably offtopic.

There's no real need to mention, ACE, Dominatiuon, Warfare or mods in general.

I thought it was about offering a leg up, and more user friendly experience and better broader MP, to new players. The people who realy need to be heard here are mp mission makers and server admins (and thanks to those that have voiced). But it is now floping like a fish out of water between people bashing particlar missions or mods and the elietists implying that maybe we don't need to care about noobs because they're noobs.

Maybe instead of pulling what we have apart, people should sugest what it is that they want to see in a noob freindly server. And doable ways of getting info to those who want to get more involved.

There realy isn't any single solution to this as its unlikely BIS will be pulling a finger out on this one. They already do enough in other areas.

And its also unlikely that we would get broad agreement on some naming convention for servers or server intros wich can be used to diperse relevant info (ie.direct to noob thread here) as server admins also have enough on thier plate. All we can hope is that people put up enough contsructive stuff to be seen through the bull shit and that a mission maker or server admin (or heaven forbid BIS) sees it and thinks to themselves 'I can do that' and then does.

[RSF TheCapulet 59]

If you need to pay hours of support re ACE2, then you're doing something wrong. The mod is designed for MP, distributed with easy to use tools designed for MP, documented etc.

You can even setup a single click solution for any server, to join directly with the required mods and settings. Next to non support needed.

If you need hours of support I'd recommend revisiting your strategy.

http://six.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Six_Updater+Communities

http://six.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Six_Updater+zSync_Setup

Example @ http://www.alphasquad.net

http://updater.dev-heaven.net/mods/nested/a546d346-a754-11de-b50f-0021855d3b6d (open in SU links)

Besides, there are plenty of non-ACE, or even mod-less servers out there.

He might be talking about DL time included. For instance, I have DSL; great pings, but less than 750k download speed. It took me roughly 4 hours to download ACE.

And as far as setting ace up, never ever underestimate the stupidity of standard fps shooters. I'm in a med. sized BC2 clan, and convinced quite a few guys to buy CO. Out of the roughly 15 guys who bought it, I was able to get a whopping three to successfully install ACE. I explained SU to them. I walked them through every bit of it. Explained how to edit their ace config.

One thing that I think would make ACE releases so much better, not for me or a lot of other players who use it already but instead for the total morons who can barely manage to walk and talk at the same time without injuring themselves: ACE installer.

Create a consolidated EXE/msi file (With all ACE files, not separated packages) that automatically finds the users installation folder, automatically detects their profile name, edits the config accordingly, and installs the whole damn thing right where it needs to go. It'd be so much easier to bring more people in from my squad without putting a forehead sized hole in my keyboard after trying to talk them into following simple directions.

[d3lta 10]

Create a consolidated EXE/msi file (With all ACE files, not separated packages) that automatically finds the users installation folder, automatically detects their profile name, edits the config accordingly, and installs the whole damn thing right where it needs to go. It'd be so much easier to bring more people in from my squad without putting a forehead sized hole in my keyboard after trying to talk them into following simple directions.

Another solution, is create a little EXE/MSI (that automatically finds the source download, the users installation folder, automatically detects their profile name, edits the config accordingly,) to download the update automatically. With this solution, utilities how addonsync and SixUpdate lose their meaning, everything would be simpler.

Best Regards

Edited May 1, 2011 by D3lta

[sickboy 13]

Create a consolidated EXE/msi file (With all ACE files, not separated packages) that automatically finds the users installation folder, automatically detects their profile name, edits the config accordingly, and installs the whole damn thing right where it needs to go. It'd be so much easier to bring more people in from my squad without putting a forehead sized hole in my keyboard after trying to talk them into following simple directions.

That's what Six Updater does and much more, the same for every new mod version, and for any mod. ACE preset is even the default, only a single click on Run Updater away.

Otherwise anyone's free to make a tool, batch file, or what-ever, that does just what you need, with for example the existing stable .7z packages, make it available so people who prefer it can use it.

We provide and support several means, beyond that, it's your turn.

But really, recommended to get into SU, it provides it already plus a lot more, incl more incoming (http://dev-heaven.net/projects/six-arma-updater/roadmap).

If you provide me specific feedback on SU Issue tracker I will get on it.

Lastly, try the sixupdater:// links out from this page (after installed+running updater): http://six.dev-heaven.net/wagn/Six_Updater+Communities to get a feel of some of the possibilities.

With this solution, utilities how addonsync and SixUpdate lose their meaning, everything would be simpler.

I don't see how it would become simpler, SU does it all (not just per mod but for all needed mods for server or else, and much more), from a strong and growing world wide network (12 active mirrors already, perhaps more people or community sites could join in), with delta-patching at each update saving tremendous bandwidth for both the user and the hosts, and so much more.

SU is under constant development and gets better and simpler to use every day, incl language localizations and more.

Anyone can even host a custom repository with mods and versions to their choosing, e.g locking or forking a version, as you please.

You'd be better off investing and supporting in that, than to focus on individual MSI packages.

Really recommend getting familiar with all the in's and out's of SU (obviously talking about 2.x), if you then still feel there's room for improvement; drop your requirements/needs/requests at SU Issue tracker and I will get on it.

Very willing to get it up to spec, but I need to be pointed into the right direction sorta speak.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Sickboy

[d3lta 10]

I don't see how it would become simpler, SU does it all (not just per mod but for all needed mods for server or else, and much more), from a strong and growing world wide network (12 active mirrors already, perhaps more people or community sites could join in), with delta-patching at each update saving tremendous bandwidth for both the user and the hosts, and so much more.

SU is under constant development and gets better and simpler to use every day, incl language localizations and more.

Anyone can even host a custom repository with mods and versions to their choosing, e.g locking or forking a version, as you please.

You'd be better off investing and supporting in that, than to focus on individual MSI packages.

Really recommend getting familiar with all the in's and out's of SU (obviously talking about 2.x), if you then still feel there's room for improvement; drop your requirements/needs/requests at SU Issue tracker and I will get on it.

Very willing to get it up to spec, but I need to be pointed into the right direction sorta speak.

I agree, a tiny .EXE is a bit more simple for the user, but more complex for the developer.

Using SU and AS, if we can share the responsibility, then why not? I like tools how SU and AS, I use and is easy, but still prefer not having to use it.

Of course, I know it depends on the Bohemia to advance.

Best Regards

[sickboy 13]

I agree, a tiny .EXE is a bit more simple for the user, but more complex for the developer.

Using SU and AS, if we can share the responsibility, then why not? I like tools how SU and AS, I use and is easy, but still prefer not having to use it.

Of course, I know it depends on the Bohemia to advance.

Best Regards

That's the main issue; to really advance it for the public, BI needs to handle things in their game, even if it were just an API for external tools to use and allow server admins to configure preferences or so.

But nobody knows when and if, while community solutions are here today and are also moving forward, and could be moving forward even faster with your support.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Sickboy

[Cookieeater 10]

We need Dwarden(or anyone BIS related) to make a comment about this addon dependency stuff.

[Sirex1 10]

I think that instead of trying to compete with BF2:PR on their own turf i think we should be able to gear this game towards the more strategic size. The i atleast love most about playing BE Warfare is to be able to be a platoon commander, controlling 2-3 squads or tanks and orchestrating assaults. Love when my squads of riflemen on danger kills of rambos in towns. Especially fun when talking to other players who also plays like platoon commanders instead of playing solo without ai. And normal players being platoon commander or even company commanders is something BF2 has a hard time competing with and we should exploit it. How do people feel about this, what do you guys appreciate most with Warfare?

Atleast i feel that MP wise we won't be able to compete with BF2:Pr on the single person PvP area until Arma2:PR comes out. Unless ofcourse you play in a clan then it rocks Bf2:PR as a military simulation experience.

We have High command, ACE2, group and platoon system, artillery mod. So i have been thinking of doing a strategy mod for it, just not put the time down to it yet. How would people feel about that?

Edited May 2, 2011 by Sirex1

[celery 8]

Atleast i feel that MP wise we won't be able to compete with BF2:Pr on the single person PvP area until Arma2:PR comes out.

It already does, or would if there were missions that worked similarly and if people actually played them.