AI spotting enemys per clock

[MissionCreep 12]

Dunno what everyone is complaining about ... I believe the12 o'clock is along the direction/axis of advance. The further away you are from the caller and the closer the target, the less meaningful the clock direction will be. I consider the calls an alarm/warning rather than precision targeting. Be glad your squad even calls out threats. I find the distance is more important than the direction. Enemy 50 m is an immediate threat, so get down. A 50m or closer enemy can go quarter way around the clock in a few steps. Enemy 100 m is a big concern. Enemy 200 m or more less so. A mobile enemy at 300+m can easily maneuver (or teleport, after all, this is Arma) its position by the time you make contact, so you will likely have to use your map. The effective distances I stated, of course, are subject to the enemy's skill and level of Arma2 x-ray vision.

Edited April 6, 2011 by MissionCreep

[dmarkwick 261]

Dunno what everyone is complaining about ... I believe the12 o'clock is along the direction/axis of advance. The further away you are from the caller and the closer the target, the less meaningful the clock direction will be. I consider the calls an alarm/warning rather than precision targeting. Be glad your squad even calls out threats. I find the distance is more important than the direction. Enemy 50 m is an immediate threat, so get down. A 50m or closer enemy can go quarter way around the clock in a few steps. Enemy 100 m is a big concern. Enemy 200 m or more less so. A mobile enemy at 300+m can easily maneuver (or teleport, after all, this is Arma) its position by the time you make contact, so you will likely have to use your map. The effective distances I stated, of course, are subject to the enemy's skill and level of Arma2 x-ray vision.

Then you haven't experienced the re-orienteering clock? Where one unit shouts out a target and the game displays a clock, so you turn to face it, but then another unit shouts out a new target, and the whole clock is re-orenteered to a different direction? That's the issue, if the clock orientation remained fixed to the axis of advance then it'd be better, but it doesn't.

[Tonci87 163]

Well simply turn to 12 o clock, there will be something to shoot. Really can`t see the problem in this....

[dmarkwick 261]

Well simply turn to 12 o clock, there will be something to shoot. Really can`t see the problem in this....

If a unit shouts out enemy man at 4 o'clock where should I point? If the next unit shouts out enemy at 11 o'clock, and the whole clock is changed to a different direction, where do I point? I've had 2 enemy spotted, but only one can be found because between the two shouts the clock was changed around.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Then you haven't experienced the re-orienteering clock? Where one unit shouts out a target and the game displays a clock, so you turn to face it, but then another unit shouts out a new target, and the whole clock is re-orenteered to a different direction? That's the issue, if the clock orientation remained fixed to the axis of advance then it'd be better, but it doesn't.

Well, the axis of advance (I called it formation direction) may be quite different between 2 enemy reports, i dont really see the problem either. Just watch the clock.

[dmarkwick 261]

Well, the axis of advance (I called it formation direction) may be quite different between 2 enemy reports, i dont really see the problem either. Just watch the clock.

Ah, watch the clock. Just like in real life :)

I don't believe for a second (pun intended) that RL squads change the clock orientation for every unit spotted.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Ah, watch the clock. Just like in real life :)

I don't believe for a second (pun intended) that RL squads change the clock orientation for every unit spotted.

Well, personally i would prefer a north/east/south/west system but i doubt that we will get that now, and i would say that it is very playable. I just used the search function for posts by Suma and 'Formation AND direction' and it is ingame, not sure if the clock is tied to it but i assume so, that may need to be tweaked somewhat.

What annoys me much more is the 'medium' and 'far' distances instead of estimated distance in meters when they call out enemies, i have no clue how far 'far' is supposed to be. :p

Edited April 6, 2011 by NeMeSiS

[Tonci87 163]

If a unit shouts out enemy man at 4 o'clock where should I point? If the next unit shouts out enemy at 11 o'clock, and the whole clock is changed to a different direction, where do I point? I've had 2 enemy spotted, but only one can be found because between the two shouts the clock was changed around.

Well shoot the second bastard and let your Squad manage the other.

Maybe I don´t have such problems because I use a Souround Sound Headset. As soon as the enemy fires a shoot I know exactly where he is, I don´t even need that clock.

[MissionCreep 12]

If a unit shouts out enemy man at 4 o'clock where should I point? If the next unit shouts out enemy at 11 o'clock, and the whole clock is changed to a different direction, where do I point? I've had 2 enemy spotted, but only one can be found because between the two shouts the clock was changed around.

I'd say engage the closer enemy and/or assign someone to take care of one of them ... if you have 2 different enemies in 2 different locations, you can't engage them both yourself at the same time anyway.

Edited April 6, 2011 by MissionCreep

[metalcraze 290]

How do you enable/disable the clock hud? Mine appears for a short time whenever someone shouts out a direction.

Eh... so what's the problem?

But it goes away - would be nice to be able to toggle it on (or off)

Why would it stay longer? Many things may happen after only some 5-10 secs

[dmarkwick 261]

What annoys me much more is the 'medium' and 'far' distances instead of estimated distance in meters when they call out enemies, i have no clue how far 'far' is supposed to be. :p

I have a foolproof system:

Far = don't worry about it.

Medium = well let's have a look.

Close = lie down.

:)

[Joe98 90]

From this thread I wonder if we are all playing the same game!

The clock is a good idea but does not work.

-

[Lonestar 11]

A group must have a common 12 o'clock for a clock bearing to be productive.

I find clock bearings nice in game but sometimes I don't know where to look.

Edited April 7, 2011 by Lonestar

[NeMeSiS 11]

I have a foolproof system:

Far = don't worry about it.

Medium = well let's have a look.

Close = lie down.

:)

See, i do the same thing for close and far, but medium always worries me since i still have no idea if medium is 100, 200 or 500 meters. :p

And i just dont see the point, why give me less information than possible?

[MissionCreep 12]

See, i do the same thing for close and far, but medium always worries me since i still have no idea if medium is 100, 200 or 500 meters. :p

And i just dont see the point, why give me less information than possible?

Medium means "Press M". Mind you, the enemies don't always appear in the map (unlike in real life situations, of course :)), and someone at 100 m distance can maneuver quickly anyway, so you will have to proceed carefully. There is no lower feeling than pressing "M" and seeing someone right on top/under you.

Edited April 7, 2011 by MissionCreep

[NeMeSiS 11]

Medium means "Press M". Mind you, the enemies don't always appear in the map (unlike in real life situations, of course :)), and someone at 100 m distance can maneuver quickly anyway, so you will have to proceed carefully. There is no lower feeling than pressing "M" and seeing someone right on top/under you.

In my game they never appear on the map, i have that feature turned off because i think its lame. :p

[LeadCommando65 10]

Medium means "Press M". Mind you, the enemies don't always appear in the map (unlike in real life situations, of course :)), and someone at 100 m distance can maneuver quickly anyway, so you will have to proceed carefully. There is no lower feeling than pressing "M" and seeing someone right on top/under you.

Using the map can't be the solution since enemies wouldn't show up on the map in real life (like you mentioned). One should be able to determine the position of an enemy soldier solely by the information (and the clock, if information is based on it) provided by the friendlies.

My own experiences have me often open the map and check where the enemies are because I can't pin them down using the AI information. Compared with OFP I rely on the map much more than in A2/OA. Playing OFP I could just walk around and rely on the direction and distance given by my AI mates to locate the spotted enemy soldier and engage it properly. Now, in A2/OA I see myself in many cases opening the map, looking where the enemy symbols show up and trying to estimate the enemy's position (rather bad) in the game world.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Reporting contacts by clock bearing should be left only for crews in vehicles because they are facing/using all the same 12 o'clock direction.

With objects (walls/trees etc) between a group of soldiers its too difficult to know to where the contact caller is looking/heading at. His "12 o'clock" can be someone's "8 o'clock"...

Compass and relative bearing is the most common and understandable orientation system in use.

The distances are mostly + roughly estimated until the AI or human players are able to measure them more precisely (laser rangefinder).

Try the SP mission where you have to eliminate a officer. Your AI spotter is whispering you some information about distance/range to target.

[flattermann 12]

Compass and relative bearing is the most common and understandable orientation system in use.

The distances are mostly + roughly estimated until the AI or human players are able to measure them more precisely (laser rangefinder).

Try the SP mission where you have to eliminate a officer. Your AI spotter is whispering you some information about distance/range to target.

Well said, the Azimuth is the only reliable way. That "3'o clock, far" is pretty much useless

[DaveP 66]

Well, the axis of advance (I called it formation direction) may be quite different between 2 enemy reports, i dont really see the problem either. Just watch the clock.

The point of using clock rays is that when used effectively you don't need to read anything, they may as well be calling out 'enemy east', even then it's a more solid reference point than a constantly shifting clock

With other players it's a fairly simple proposition. Perhaps this is just me venting more about the difficulties of adapting such systems to a more logical format

We've all had the joys of listening to people read off mil-specific compass bearings, being told an enemy is 'by that tree' or 'over there', it's just a shame when it's often encouraged by the ai being just as useless about it as some players are

Edited April 8, 2011 by DaveP

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

Agreed, but not every unit carries a compass :)

Look on the map. Up is North, now you are oriented in regards to the headings given by your troops, compass or not.

-----------------

The problem with the clock thing is that unlike heading the clock is dynamic.

If you watch North (12oClock at the time) when a unit starts reporting, but you turn to 3oClock at the same time, 12oClock spotted enemy is suddenly 9oClock. Thats the issue. If they used heading it would never change.

However you can overcome this by pressing 2 and looking at the the enemy report. The oClock then will be in regards to where you are currently looking when you pressed 2 regardless of what the AI actually said.

[old_painless 182]

All, you should take a look here and see if some of the shortcomings of the current system have been eliminated:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=118629

-OP

[VISION1776 10]

Wish I could just turn off the calling out feature entirely. My player spots enemies that I cant even see on the screen. This is a huge no no for me since I like to spot enemies myself and hate all the radio chatter.

[gammadust 12]

The problem with the clock thing is that unlike heading the clock is dynamic.

If you watch North (12oClock at the time) when a unit starts reporting, but you turn to 3oClock at the same time, 12oClock spotted enemy is suddenly 9oClock. Thats the issue. If they used heading it would never change.

This is true, but misses part of the problem. My memory is a bit fuzzy now, but from what I remember when skimming trough the radio protocol what it does is exacly that but from different reference directions depending on god knows which:

Sometimes it is in relation of the squad movement

Sometimes it is in relation to the intended recipient of the message (squad leader)

Sometimes it is in relation to the unit's own direction.

EDIT: the fourth one I was forgeting is when the target called out is of the type "ENEMY 100m AT THAT BUSH/GRID"

(this is dealt with in the same region of the config.

These 3 are for sure, from what I remember, and basically, the engine chooses depending on how distant the emmiter and the reciever actually are, but it is not open to inspection.

What I could do was reduce the probability of one or other to be always the same, be it in regards to the player. Check my signature for more. :)

In regards to the muting of radio chatter I believe there are addons for that. You should be able to find one. ACE is one but is a bit of an overkill only for that...

Edited September 28, 2011 by gammadust

[wipman 1]

Hi, for me, the more clear method of communicate a contact, is by the clock in relation with the formation. So, if you're in Column or in Line (Line for CQB or urban combat) you'll always know to which direction you should look and add or remove an hour to the contact report with only two variables; the formation and who in the squad has reported the contact. It's much easyer/faster at the beginning with the Column, Line or Staggered Column formation than with others, but you get used to it in few time and it works. Let's C ya

*EDIT: this for distant groups or targets, once the effective fire begins and you stop with the suppressive fire, the info is almost the same but with a bit more detail, like: "One man/woman (if you're not sure of which weapon he/she haves) behind a big/mid/small rock 2 O'clock, low/mid/high (depending on the firing possition of the objective). But the detailed info is only and only, when the effective fire has began.

Edited October 3, 2011 by wipman