ARMA 2: OA beta build 78927

[.kju 3240]

my take:

1. lower run and sprint speed

2. make both more different to one other

3. make the weapon aim more stable while walk

4. reduce exhaustion (duty) and up recovery + up weapon sway in stand and crouch

[mr.ben 11]

I see one bug when using the Scar, and switching from lowered to raised weapon. Once raised, the hand jumps into another anim.

With regards to new anims speed:

In short I am extremely against them, and find it very disheartening to see, IMO, such drastic changes to gameplay and feel.

Reasoning and results of tests... When I bought this game, I did so because of my love for OFP and Arma. I loved the balance it offered between usability, fun and realism. If I wanted anymore, it's generally something I can script into a mission, or use a mod. As it happens, i don't use any realism or gameplay altering mods, because I am happy with the balance that BIS has created. The anims for me, completely change the feel of the game I bought. I am sad, and somewhat angry if these changes will be in full effect, as I will be forced to use it, and play a style of game I did not buy.

I think the main points that have been singled out for really all the anims, is that they are too fast, particularly AT and weapon changes. I would pay for and play an arcade for this, or some other popular FPS.

All changes that have been made in new patches, by the brilliant and continuing support from the BIS team to the game, have been steps forward, in fixing bugs, and adding wonderful new features to play with. This however alters the feel of the game itself, which IMO and judging by the fuss it has caused is not a positive move forward for the game and the majority of it's players.

I feel the anims at this speed don't smoothly flow from one to another, partilcularly the switching from stances and to movement.

I also see that the noclipping for the gun has been introduced in some form. This is actually bugged for me. Sometimes it seems to lower and raise my weapon at a rediculous speed when i walk sideways through a door. Or I seem to jump through it like a 20cm warp past the door frame. I do not like this also. I have never found it a problem to point my gun in the corner of a door, and swing round. I always liked the fact I had to do this, since it made the gun have real physics, rather than games that let it clip through. It's like playing Duke Nukem 3D again ;p Where my gun is just pasted over the top. People can have this feature and reduce realism by DLing such mods like STMovement, and does not affect the feel of play for others. Please do not implement this feature.

As for the FPS improvements with scopes, they are ok, i dont get a massive change, but it is noticable.

On the whole the patch seems as ever to bring some good and well needed fixes and improvements, but as for the "noclipping gun" and speeded anims, I do not like them, and find they are not smooth.

[SaOk 112]

Great to see the camera.sqs now adds semicolons (; ) at the end of lines, but it dosent do it yet for the last line - "_camera camCommitPrepared 0".

[nkenny 1051]

AI+Interface

The Target/Engage quick-command feature is non-intuitively weighted. AI that have been given a target will default to 'engage' (ie: leave formation; run like a headless chicken; die). This is inconsistant with expected result -- moving -- and therefore non-intuitive.

In this beta the AI will still get stuck with sidearms (in fact prefer them at close ranges).

reloading a rifle, new system takes about 3 secound, IRL depend on what type of reload and how much you train for it, you can do it in between 2.5 secound for a speed reload to a 5.5 for a tactical reload(where you have to retain the mag, which most soldier needs to whenever possible even if they empty the mag since their mag are GI stuff, or are expensive stuff like a PMAG), personally I would like a happy medium between 4 to 4.5 secound of time taken

Fine. Now replicate that speed in a Norwegian forest, laying prone, -32 Degrees C, whilst being shot at by russians, and its at night. That said 4-5 seconds sounds good.

I find PvPscenes suggestion, with the exception of #4 which I don't understand, to be spot on. Lowering run speeds and making sprinting more different will make the game more deliberate and feel more 'weighty' at close ranges.

-k

[SaOk 112]

I think the shorter reload times work better for gameplay. Else AI soldiers are time to time over easy targets in close combat.

[Beagle 684]

I think the shorter reload times work better for gameplay. Else AI soldiers are time to time over easy targets in close combat.

RPG spamming is better gameplay? How? For what kind of game? for sure not for a MilSim that aims at represanting a believable combat environment. Maybe the focus has just shifted last month and the last sentence does not count anymore for this series.

Faster is not better especially if something woks out 5 times faster in game as it would in "a believable combat environment".

BTW: someone reloading somthing without cover has to be a easy target...there has to be a instant punishment for doing stupid things and using the wrong approach like standing in front of a MBT und pumping 3 RPGs into its front in 15 seconds while runningn left and right and still making it out as the winner

The game is already much to forgiving for such arcade tactics...reloading a MG belt while running is in the same league.

Beeing able to perform such arcade actions now even faster is NO IMPROVEMENT for the type of game this was supposed to be and advertised.

Slowing reloads down and removing the reload on the move for anything heavier than a FN-FAL would be the right approach for better gameplay IMO.

Edited March 14, 2011 by Beagle

[maturin 12]

BIS has already tried to prevent us from reloading on the fly. Rifles slow you down and machineguns immobilize you. Of course, they somehow neglected to realize that if you are already moving you can do it all at a sprint.

But still no running while pistol-switching.

[Beagle 684]

But still no running while pistol-switching.

and still no holstering of that annoying pistol after you've lost the rest of the gear. Only A.I. can do that miracle thing.

[crazyirish93 10]

And i was hoping they would reduce reload speeds for all weapons rifles machineguns and AT launcher they are too fast. Proper reload animations for the main rifles would have been nice too.

[Tom_Pynchon 10]

I tried the beta patch last night and got the impression that it had afforded the game a boost in performance. AI movement "appeared" a bit smoother and more coherent. I've not had the time to do benchmarks and check actual framerates, though. There was,in any case, a good deal more GPU activity as evidenced by a significant increase in GPU temps -- from an average 67°c to around 75°c on both cards, which I take as a good sign. (My PC is spotlessly clean at the moment, so I cannot attribute the added heat to poor hardware maintenance. Also, I tested other games and did not see any increase in GPU temps playing those.)

Like most everybody else, however, I'm a bit put off by the new animation speeds. Better framerates need not mean faster AI movement, after all.

My PC specs are as follows: i7 870 @ 3.2 GHz, ASUS Maximus III Extreme motherboard, 2 x GTX 470 (x16/x16 SLI), 4GB RAM (CL7 GSkill Ripjaws), 64-bit Windows 7 Ultimate.

[4 IN 1 0]

AI+Interface

The Target/Engage quick-command feature is non-intuitively weighted. AI that have been given a target will default to 'engage' (ie: leave formation; run like a headless chicken; die). This is inconsistant with expected result -- moving -- and therefore non-intuitive.

In this beta the AI will still get stuck with sidearms (in fact prefer them at close ranges).

Fine. Now replicate that speed in a Norwegian forest, laying prone, -32 Degrees C, whilst being shot at by russians, and its at night. That said 4-5 seconds sounds good.

I find PvPscenes suggestion, with the exception of #4 which I don't understand, to be spot on. Lowering run speeds and making sprinting more different will make the game more deliberate and feel more 'weighty' at close ranges.

-k

Its my bad that I didnt including saying that my comment only covers standing and crouching in a warm place where forest are not covered in snow, just like what it is in arma2 standard island.

[nkenny 1051]

I was just making a point that very little combat happens in warm and pleasant places. The 'police missions' undertaken in places like Afghanistan or by Special Forces have very little in common with what actual conventional warfare would look like.

> The worse the weather, the more you are required to be out in it.

> Weather ain't neutral.

4-5 seconds is however an appropriate timeframe given the current limited animations and metagame.

-k

[Rg 0]

I find PvPscenes suggestion, with the exception of #4 which I don't understand, to be spot on.

4. reduce exhaustion (duty) and up recovery + up weapon sway in stand and crouch

The way I understand this is to add a little more shake/sway to your arms/weapon when standing/crouched, so you don't have a perfectly stable shot (holding the "breath" button would actually have more use now). Then reduce fatigue (duty) in those stances, so you don't have your arms/weapon jumping all over your screen in extreme amounts when fatigued. It would be a much better system.

[.kju 3240]

Exactly.

Better, more demanding gameplay and maybe even more realistic.

[Prodavec 10]

+2 For noclipping guns and anims.

Probing FPS changes.

[eosteric 10]

DEVS, PLEASE TAKE NOTE:

The vram issue, the latest stable patch (non-beta) detects VRAM wrong for me, on my 5870, as it does with many other ATI users. It detects lower than it should and it screws up LOD of textures, and messes with performance.

NOTE that going into my ArmA2OA.cfg and setting LocalVram to 0 and starting the beta detects the correct amount of LocalVram and LOD texture issue is gone.

If I fire up non-beta again it will detect LocalVram wrong again, and the issue is back. Everything is fine as long as I keep playing the beta.

So please note this beta corrects this and detects LocalVram properly for ATI users, and include this fix in your official, regular, non-beta patch.

The beta patch I'm talking about is 78927, so make sure whatever fix included there is included in upcoming patches as well.

I guess it might have been fixed since this beta: [76930] Fixed: More reliable VRAM detection on Vista/Win7 (using DXGI). (http://dev-heaven.net/issues/16163)

But just make sure to include this in regular patch, really important fix for ATI users.

[Defunkt 431]

USERS, PLEASE TAKE NOTE:

When we think we have a fix for something we incorporate it into our patch betas.

Then when it turns out it actually works and nobody's bitchin' about it we add it to our next stable release. That's how it works.

D'uh.

[eosteric 10]

That's simply not true. Countless times something have been fixed in one patch then the same issue pops up in the next one.

It's important to bring attention to the most pressing matters, this one really messed up the game for many ATI users, especially those with high end cards.

[Defunkt 431]

Presumably so important that the forum rules simply no longer apply to you.

§9) Do not cross-post

Do not post duplicate threads in more than one forum simply to get an answer quicker or to draw more attention to your post.

§12) Do not type in all capital letters, all bold, or in a non-black font

Typing in all caps equates (according to standard net etiquette) to yelling. It is also difficult and obnoxious to read such posts. This also applies to posting all in bold or all in a certain font colour just to try to make your words stand out, if your point is interesting enough or well written enough it will stand out. You're welcome of course to use different colours for parts of your post if it helps clarify certain areas, but typing complete messages in any colour other than black should be avoided.

[eosteric 10]

Let the moderators do their job, won't you. I think users with this problem will be happy I gave them the fix. As obviously, not everyone knows it.

[Zipper5 74]

Let the moderators do their job, won't you. I think users with this problem will be happy I gave them the fix. As obviously, not everyone knows it.

Still, there's no reason to post the same message in 3 different places. Please don't do it again. :)

[smookie 11]

Extremely happy with the changes so far.

[eosteric 10]

Still, there's no reason to post the same message in 3 different places. Please don't do it again. :)

Fine, what I'm wondering though, is why isn't this fix in an official patch?

When the fix was introduced in beta 76930.

When was that beta patch released?

[duckmeister 10]

DEVS, PLEASE TAKE NOTE:

The vram issue, the latest stable patch (non-beta) detects VRAM wrong for me, on my 5870, as it does with many other ATI users. It detects lower than it should and it screws up LOD of textures, and messes with performance.

NOTE that going into my ArmA2OA.cfg and setting LocalVram to 0 and starting the beta detects the correct amount of LocalVram and LOD texture issue is gone.

If I fire up non-beta again it will detect LocalVram wrong again, and the issue is back. Everything is fine as long as I keep playing the beta.

So please note this beta corrects this and detects LocalVram properly for ATI users, and include this fix in your official, regular, non-beta patch.

The beta patch I'm talking about is 78927, so make sure whatever fix included there is included in upcoming patches as well.

I guess it might have been fixed since this beta: [76930] Fixed: More reliable VRAM detection on Vista/Win7 (using DXGI). (http://dev-heaven.net/issues/16163)

But just make sure to include this in regular patch, really important fix for ATI users.

This issue has already been fixed in the beta. The standard operation procedure is to include all beta fixes (that work) into the next official patch. Since they've obviously fixed it, why do you have to let everyone know?

That's simply not true. Countless times something have been fixed in one patch then the same issue pops up in the next one.

It's important to bring attention to the most pressing matters, this one really messed up the game for many ATI users, especially those with high end cards.

I can't think of a single time where a valid fix was undone between a beta and an official patch. This is silly.

Let the moderators do their job, won't you. I think users with this problem will be happy I gave them the fix. As obviously, not everyone knows it.

"I gave them the fix"? Are you kidding me? You did nothing but complain about an issue that's already been solved. You get no credit for not knowing how the patching procedure works. And you especially don't get any credit for acting like you were the driving force behind a fix. It doesn't matter whether or not "everyone knows it", as it has already been fixed.

Fine, what I'm wondering though, is why isn't this fix in an official patch?

When the fix was introduced in beta 76930.

When was that beta patch released?

The beta was released just before 1.57. With the animation fiasco, 1.58 has not been officially released, and currently we are waiting for 1.59. Just be patient.

[=kct=blackmamba 44]

4 in 1

i agree with u abouth the weapen reload speed and switching between rifle and shoulder weapen is way to fast..