Do I still drop my equipment into the water?

[Sintacks 10]

I remember when I played Arma 2 last year with a buddy, he accidentally fell into the water in Chernarus near Cherno. I remember he climbed out and caught up to me and we noticed all his equipment was gone. We tracked back to the place where he fell in and saw all his equipment at the bottom of the ocean. He was able to pick it back up (after a few tries) and re-armed and equipped himself.

I fired up the editor (my other buddy thinks it's the coolest thing and attention to detail in the game blows him away) and put myself in the map with an MG and loaded myself up so I could show him the same thing but it didn't happen. I went for a swim and saw I still had all my gear. Maybe no one cares about these things but me..... I was just wondering if anyone knew if that's still a "feature" after patches etc or is it only in Scenarios/Campaign?

[sakura_chan 9]

I think I heard that they changed it a bit so you don't loose them as quickly, but I know it still works even in the latest version of Operation Arrowhead

[enad 11]

I think its still there, I wish they would drop, unless you were in a some river rapids you wouldn't just loose your gear like that.

[Laqueesha 474]

I think its still there, I wish they would drop, unless you were in a some river rapids you wouldn't just loose [sic] your gear like that.

Same 'ere, mate.

[Rough Knight 9]

No but you wouldnt be able to swim I doubt with a pack and rifle.

[Devil Dogs SF 13]

Soldiers are trained to swim with their gear.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

No but you wouldnt be able to swim I doubt with a pack and rifle.

It's not that hard.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

I figure that unless you're some kind of SF prodigy (which, now that I think of it, encompasses 99% of all the user-made missions around here), if you end up in water with your weapon, something has gone horribly wrong.

[AnimalMother92 10]

Thankfully we have TrueMods :)

[ProfTournesol 956]

I figure that unless you're some kind of SF prodigy (which, now that I think of it, encompasses 99% of all the user-made missions around here), if you end up in water with your weapon, something has gone horribly wrong.

Yes, but IMHO the point is that AI likes to take a bath when walking along the shore in formation.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Yes, but IMHO the point is that AI likes to take a bath when walking along the shore in formation.

Also a good point. Buggers must forget to shower beforehand. :)

[Beagle 684]

It's not that hard.

I can't do that.

---------- Post added at 08:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 AM ----------

Soldiers are trained to swim with their gear.

No, they are not.

There is a reason why there is so much effort in military operations around Bridges, boats, floats, pontons and the like. It is for a reason, or should the allies in WWII just have swom across the Streams?

Fully equiped Soldiers can't swim...all you learn in "swimming" lessen is to get rid of all your gear to not get drown.

Edited January 20, 2011 by Beagle

[vilas 474]

Yes, but IMHO the point is that AI likes to take a bath when walking along the shore in formation.

or even when not cross bridge, but crossing river

or when they stand in formation near lake /river - the same problem (few soldiers stand on beach, few swiming and loosing gear)

[maddogx 13]

Soldiers are trained to swim with their gear.

No, they are not.

That right there is the problem with this issue: there are two opposing groups of people in this forum who state two opposing views as fact. So are soldiers trained to swim with full combat gear, or aren't they?

[HyperU2 11]

Marines are trained to and qualify annually. There are those who claim you can't and those of us that have done it.

http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-43574.html

Edited January 20, 2011 by HyperU2

[wolfbite 8]

With full combat gear minus pack, swim 50 meters in deep water, with weapon slung across back (muzzle down). Stll its SF and without pack :s

Edited January 20, 2011 by wolfbite

[[frl]myke 14]

One have to differ between regular Soldier and Special trained Units. While the latter is trained to swim with a certain amount of gear, also has special equipment for this case, the regular Soldier isn't trained and also his regular gear isn't meant for swimming.

Swimming capabilities and combat-ready equipment exclude each other.

So yes, there are Military units that can swim. Specially trained units and also these do prepare for such a task. Either they start with reduced gear or they have a external possibility to carry the gear (small floating device which they attach with a cord).

For ArmA 2 this means: losing gear is nothing but realistic.

For those special units it can be done via scripting solutions which equals the swim preparation in real life.

And again, a fully equipped soldier has 30+kg gear which doesn't float, so fill a backpack with 30kg of stones and go swimming. Then come back to the discussion.

[HyperU2 11]

If I go for a swim do you promise we can change this?

[wolfbite 8]

If I go for a swim do you promise we can change this?

Photo's on the backof a postcard please :P

[[frl]myke 14]

If I go for a swim do you promise we can change this?

I can't make promises as you surely know (or at least guessed). But one thing i can promise:

if you go for a swim, fully dressed (Jeans, Shirt, Jacket, military style Boots), with a backpack filled with 30+kg (no wood or anything that swims itself, preferably stones) and swim at least 100 meters, goin into a combat situation right after, no one ever would claim it unrealistic.

Make sure you have Witnesses around and a rescue swimmer (or better 2) isn't a bad idea either.

I remember when we received the new suits and equipment in the swiss army (TAZ '90 for those who know), one of the benefits that was announced was "easier to get rid off when in water". You may guess why this was a valid point when evaluating for new clothes/equipment.

I think, here are 2 sides of knowledge that speaks for either one argument or the other:

- those who have own experience with combat gear votes against keeping gear

- those who have "Hollywood knowledge" votes for keeping gear.

Find your position.

:EDITH:

Photo's on the backof a postcard please :P

Prefer Youtube vid.

[HyperU2 11]

Myke;1838420']I can't make promises as you surely know (or at least guessed). But one thing i can promise:

if you go for a swim' date=' fully dressed (Jeans, Shirt, Jacket, military style Boots), with a backpack filled with 30+kg (no wood or anything that swims itself, preferably stones) and swim at least 100 meters, goin into a combat situation right after, no one ever would claim it unrealistic.

Make sure you have Witnesses around and a rescue swimmer (or better 2) isn't a bad idea either.

I remember when we received the new suits and equipment in the swiss army (TAZ '90 for those who know), one of the benefits that was announced was "easier to get rid off when in water". You may guess why this was a valid point when evaluating for new clothes/equipment.

I think, here are 2 sides of knowledge that speaks for either one argument or the other:

- those who have own experience with combat gear votes against keeping gear

- those who have "Hollywood knowledge" votes for keeping gear.

Find your position.

:EDITH:

Prefer Youtube vid.[/quote']

I'm on the "I've swam in combat gear and we should keep it" side. You're on the closed minded side. Worthless discussion though and it'll likely see me banned.

The following qualification standards and test procedures are applicable to Marine Corps combat water survival training. All testing procedures for will be accomplished while wearing full combat gear unless otherwise stated. Full combat gear will consist of boots, utilities, helmet, flack jacket, H-harness, cartridge belt, two magazine pouches, two full canteens with covers, rubber rifle, and a standard 40-pound pack, with frame, which has been properly waterproofed. Gas mask, first-aid kit, magazines, sopor mats, and sleeping bags will not be used during testing or training.

Combat Water Survival, Third Class (CWS3)

To qualify Marines as CWS3 involves teaching and testing. Emphasis is on personal survival under combat situations and while on maneuvers. Teaching occurs throughout instruction/evaluation.

# Enter shallow water (minimum 1 m) with weapon and wearing full combat gear.

# Walk 20 meters in shallow water (minimum 1 m waist deep) with weapon at port arms and wearing full combat gear

# Walk 40 meters in chest deep water wearing full gear and weapon (weapon slung around neck) using a modified breaststroke arm movement and modified combat stroke leg movement (bicycle stroke).

# Travel for 40 meters in deep water (over the head) with full gear and weapon.

# Enter water from height of 5 feet using the modified abandon ship technique, into deep water with full gear and weapon (weapon inverted at sling arms), travel 10 meters, remove pack, and travel 15 meters with pack and weapon.

# Jump from minimum height of 8 feet (maximum of 15 feet) using the abandon ship technique wearing utilities and boots only and travel 25 meters using either a beginner swimming stroke (on front or back) or demonstrating a basic knowledge of any survival stroke or combination thereof. This info is available in the USMC PT Guide.

This is the minimum of what every Marine must do to get through Boot Camp. No special forces, cooks and band members alike had to complete this. The only thing "Hollywood" about it was the slackers at MCRD San Diego.

I have no idea what the Army does.

Edited January 20, 2011 by HyperU2

[[frl]myke 14]

I'm on the "I've swam in combat gear and we should keep it" side. You're on the closed minded side. Worthless discussion though and it'll likely see me banned. Fucks.

Care to give more details? What exactly did you took with you when you was swimming?

Honestly, i don't know your equipment, i only know mine (which is standard infantry man equipment, nothing special) and i know for sure, even if i could keep myself on water surface for some very short time, i would sink pretty soon due to fatigue caused by trying to keep me on surface.

So basically i keep my point: regular soldier shouldn't keep full gear when swimming for some time. For special solutions, scripting can fill the gap if needed.

:EDITH:

Just saw your edit. Reading....

Edited January 20, 2011 by [FRL]Myke

[HyperU2 11]

It's listed above. I had to edit.

This video sucks, since it's a slideshow, but it's Marine Boot swim qual.

cR8wdiNBSJA

Way more recent than when I did it though. :)

Edited January 20, 2011 by HyperU2

[[frl]myke 14]

a standard 40-pound pack,

sopor mats

I'm sorry, i'm not english native and don't know what these 2 quoted things means. If you don't mind, could you explain to me please?

Do i read this correctly, the max distance that had to be mastered swimming in full combat gear is 40 meters? Just making sure i got it right.

[HyperU2 11]

The pack was full of standard gear, extra clothes, boots, tent half and tent stakes. It was waterproofed to provide some flotation aid. There were elements of the training with and without the pack.

The sopor mat is what you sleep on, we didn't have to swim with that or our sleeping bag attached to our packs.

Basically you would jump into the pool at one end, swim with your pack on you and then take it off and use it as a flotation aid to get to the other end of the pool. It wasn't much about distance as learning how to float in full gear. This is mainly a survival course since we deal with being on ship. With my unit we did more advanced swimming.

"sopor" mat

Edited January 20, 2011 by HyperU2