ARMA 2: OA beta build 77159

[nkenny 1057]

Ghost recon has been mentioned earlier in the thread and it is an excellent source material. It must be mentioned by Ghost recon I mean OGR (Old Ghost Recon) not the 'advanced warfighter' nonsense.

Now I present these as an overview-- not as a wishlist to be cut-pasted into ARMA2. Unlikely at best of times anyway.

USER INTERFACE

Now obviously Ghost Recon didn't have to contend with player controlled vehicles nor huge expanses of terrain-- yet on the small-scale infantry level OGR shined.

In ghost recon the human commander would control two sliders each with three settings. The options were ROE and Speed

Rules of Engagement

- Suppress // the AI would pour all available firepower in the direction of the enemy. If engaged the AI would HOLD.

- Normal // AI would move until fired upon-- then change speed to HOLD.

- Hold fire // AI would not fire unless spotted and move until enemy was spotted-- then change speed to HOLD

Speed

- At all costs // AI would not HOLD for any reason.

- Normal // AI would move at a tactical pace

- Hold // AI would remain static and attempt to get behind cover/concealment

By manipulating these two sliders the commander could get pretty much any tactical approach he could want for!

FORMATIONS

Now Ghost recon dealt with much smaller formations of men. Three maximum, a far cry from the typical 6-13 man squads we see in Arma2. Yet Ghost Recon (and its predecessor Red storm entertainment) games offered a valuable lesson here as well.

When the AI came upon impassible terrain, meaning terrain which broke up the formation somehow, the AI would practice what I call squeezing. Namely they would SQUEEZE in behind the Squad Leader- Its safe to assume he has a route planned out isn't it? Squeezing prevented the sometimes ridiculous situations you get in Arma2 where a flanking soldier (typically when moving slowly) suddenly performs marathon to remain in perfect 'formation'. In combat this usually ends with the soldier dying.

The improvements of beta 77159 are substantial, but they are a still a step away from being an AI that can be depended on to perform in high risk scenarios (such as PvP warfare maps) or with such utter intuitive simplicity that anyone can use them.

-k

[twisted 128]

Ghost recon has been mentioned earlier in the thread and it is an excellent source material. It must be mentioned by Ghost recon I mean OGR (Old Ghost Recon) not the 'advanced warfighter' nonsense.

Now I present these as an overview-- not as a wishlist to be cut-pasted into ARMA2. Unlikely at best of times anyway.

The improvements of beta 77159 are substantial, but they are a still a step away from being an AI that can be depended on to perform in high risk scenarios (such as PvP warfare maps) or with such utter intuitive simplicity that anyone can use them.

-k

that brought back just how good that part of GR was (the tactical and ROE). Not sure how that could be incorporated in arma2 graphically though .

[nettrucker 142]

Tried your repro, i confirm the issue.

I can confirm this too. Seems also that the different formations are a bit messed up, but need to do some more testing.

kind regards

[fabrizio_t 58]

I did some thorough testing in missions i've run dozen of times.

All in all build 77159 is a nice step forward for AI led groups / AI in general. Units definetely take cover faster and work better as a group.

Still (old news) AI acts quite dumb in CQB: looks like units spend a lot of time to "identify" a threat before opening fire.

Also AT units keep switching weapons for no reason.

I hope these problems will be fixed soon as well.

Obviously my biggest gripe with this build is the broken group formation handling when player is leader.

Edited January 24, 2011 by fabrizioT

[mrcash2009 0]

I can also confirm this long elongated V formation that happens in danger mode, also happens in stealth mode with "go covering" etc ... ??

I may need to test this more. Anyway for now getting to cover is good, but this elongated V formation that you cant seem to break from in danger mode is not quite right. they still need to keep a formation you last assigned them as they follow you and move in danger mode, not this fixed long V ahead of you.

At the moment you dont want to get close as in the back of your mind your thinking ... "ok, if they spot and go into danger they are all going to run ahead of me out of formation" ... which isn't a good feeling.

I was thinking that maybe this behaviour instead of auto, could be assign to "find cover" command, so then you can have AI stick to formation pre this beta but have that specific behaviour for that set command, or at least a balance between AI finding cover and still sticking to same formation they were set to before danger kicked in. Like I mentioned before, if they are line form, then into danger they cover, but then follow me in line and never go ahead of me unless instructed too.

Edited January 24, 2011 by mrcash2009

[NoRailgunner 0]

Just wonder why the AI on "Aware" - without any enemy contacts don't stay on the road?

Is the AI pathfinding messed up with aware (+danger/+stealth) behaviour or are there some more issues with the roadnetwork and -connections/crossroads on default A2+OA maps (islands)?

[NeMeSiS 11]

Just wonder why the AI on "Aware" - without any enemy contacts don't stay on the road?

Is the AI pathfinding messed up with aware (+danger/+stealth) behaviour or are there some more issues with the roadnetwork and -connections/crossroads on default A2+OA maps (islands)?

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/AIBehaviour

[NoRailgunner 0]

@NeMeSiS perhaps AI (or maps/roads) needs some pathfinding tuning especially close to airports and crossroads. You can see the AI going off a road/zigzag through these areas - even on "safe" behaviour. ;)

In general its imho much better if the default AI stays on the road unless they got the information about:

- roadblock or objects where they can't drive through/over

- a possible threat eg mines, IED, ambush

- beeing attacked and there is no way AI could stay on road using speed and "aggression" = break through

- heavily damaged vehicles and/or wounded AIs

[NeMeSiS 11]

@NeMeSiS perhaps AI (or maps/roads) needs some pathfinding tuning especially close to airports and crossroads. You can see the AI going off a road/zigzag through these areas - even on "safe" behaviour. ;)

In general its imho much better if the default AI stays on the road unless they got the information about:

- roadblock or objects where they can't drive through/over

- a possible threat eg mines, IED, ambush

- beeing attacked and there is no way AI could stay on road using speed and "aggression" = break through

- heavily damaged vehicles and/or wounded AIs

Well i never said it was perfect. :p

I am happy with the aware behaviour as it currently is though, if the mission/player leader requires units to stay on the road then thats easily solved.

That said, the pathfinding itself of vehicles is still not 100% reliable, though you can expect them to go where you want them, the way they go there may be somewhat... Unexpected at times :D

[stupidwhitekid75 11]

Vehicles have been bugging me like crazy lately, I really hope some work goes into them in the next beta/patch. With the regular AI improvements it's made infantry battles a lot more intense and fun, but trying to use vehicles with them..trying to use vehicles in general actually is just down right annoying.

[mrcash2009 0]

Put AI into "safe" then patrol in a compact column on a road, pure bugged, needs to be fixed :)

As regards driving, I think AI do pretty well in column formation set to safe, but when you start turning and they all realise they also need to turn and be aware of one another turning, this is the ends results "literally" :

I dont even joke. I wonder if BIS had this in mind as a hidden joke :)

[Posta 10]

I dont even joke. I wonder if BIS had this in mind as a hidden joke :)

Haha, spot on! :)