Use of purchased / commercial mesh's / 3d models

[[aps]gnat 28]

Obviously you can buy all sorts of meshs/3d models (with or without textures) from various web sites like TurboQuid and The3DStudio (which I've yet to ever do), but do the conditions of their purchase prohibit;

- an addon being made using that model as the basis?

- the same addon being distributed to the community in binarized form, for no commercial gain?

I'm not familiar with the exact terms and conditions of these types of purchases.

- Do T&C's vary within a web site, but dependant on author?

- Are there specific sites that allow purchase and "game" type use?

- Are they all, or just some based on a "Royalty per use" type scheme?

I ask because theres various good quality models out there (with lower poly count to suit the game) that I'd be quite willing to purchase and turn into community addons.

PS: I dont wish to debate whether "binarized" meets the specific T&Cs of the commercial purchase, I'd just like to know what the actual T&C's say.

In RL I administer a couple dozen contracts in the 100's of $millions ..... I can do the interpreting myself ..... not to say I'm not interested in what you think it means.

.... and any real life test cases of such use.

Cheers.

[[frl]myke 14]

IMHO you should be on the safe side if you contact the respective site admin/webteam and ask directly if it's allowed or not. Make sure you clearly state it is non-profit, non-commercial.

:EDITH:

Take a look at this site:http://www-roc.inria.fr/gamma/gamma/download/download.php

There are a few pretty good models in 3ds format and as far as i understand it, free for non-commercial, non-profit use.

[max power 21]

I was reading some licensing information on TS a while ago, and it seems like the licenses are customizable by the artist or seller to a certain extent. Some may allow derivative works, some may not, is what I got out of it.

[[aps]gnat 28]

OK, thanks guys. Given it seems possible, I would have thought maybe a few more people would have used such methods in this community by now .....

[max power 21]

It's probably the cash involved. People have been taking models from free 3d sites, or borrowing them from other games for a while. Robert Hammer is a good example of a legit user of 3rd party 3d files. Stalker game files are also up for grabs and have been used. In the case of the latter, it seems like they need some TLC before they can be used in ArmA and that also seems to be the deterrent for non-artists. For artists, I think the exercise is mainly the art side and not so much the making a billion addons side.

[EricM 0]

Quality models are usually very expensive on Turbosquid, probably way too much for a non-profit use. On a commercial project I can swallow the pill and recoup it on whatever I bill the client, but for a free mod, it's not usually worth it.

Then most of it is very highpoly with subpar topology and/or textures (there's almost always a catch), so you really have to work a lot to make this usable in a real-time engine.

The best you could do with this is maybe use it as a 3D blueprint, to rebuild your mesh around that, in which case I don't think you would infringe any copyright if there are actually no original polygons or textures used and it's based on a real-life design (if you copy an original design, it's another story).

Stalker, Counterstrike and FS planes have the advantage of being already meant for RT engines.

From my little experience, if you know how to model in a 3D package, it's not really worth the cash investment and converstion work for a free mod.

[PuFu 4591]

Quality models are usually very expensive on Turbosquid, probably way too much for a non-profit use. On a commercial project I can swallow the pill and recoup it on whatever I bill the client, but for a free mod, it's not usually worth it.

Then most of it is very highpoly with subpar topology and/or textures (there's almost always a catch), so you really have to work a lot to make this usable in a real-time engine.

The best you could do with this is maybe use it as a 3D blueprint, to rebuild your mesh around that, in which case I don't think you would infringe any copyright if there are actually no original polygons or textures used and it's based on a real-life design (if you copy an original design, it's another story).

Stalker, Counterstrike and FS planes have the advantage of being already meant for RT engines.

From my little experience, if you know how to model in a 3D package, it's not really worth the cash investment and converstion work for a free mod.

I agree with that completely. Additionally, you could use one of the HD models on commercial 3d websites to bake the normals, but taking it down to LP (at least on a mesh you haven't built yourself) is not an easy task

[[aps]gnat 28]

Nice feedback, thanks.

I guess in general, I'm low on free time and skills (read: patience! ), so I'm more willing to part with cash (i have some the wife tells me! ) to get a few IDEAL and very usable/suitable addons into the game.

I seem to find time to do major mesh overhauls on most of the stuff I release (because much of its not mine), but I doubt I have time to rebuild a whole mesh from scratch and am very unskilled in textures and UV mapping.

I guess if I find good lower poly models with good textures, I'll ping the author to see whats my options.

[f2f_bho 10]

yeah, ran into this problem as well, and when i contacted the author/company,(mind you after i had already purchased the Model). and was promptly clipped in these very forums by some senior members, anyway i found out that i had a conditional lic, on the product i purchased. I then asked the Author/Company what where the terms of using the Mesh in a RT 3d environment where, and they stated a price in the 2-3k range that quickly dashed that project from my list of to do items.

[[aps]gnat 28]

Ouch! So with some suppliers, the price changes for a variation on usage .......

Hobby pricing that isn't, I won't have that much cash.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

I would be very careful using the site Myke linked to, as many of these models appear to be ripped De Espona models. (They've been loose for a decade, hundreds of sites have them, some don't even know the origin of the files)

[ziiip 1]

It sounds logical that you can use the model you bought that you paid for in the process addons, doesnt it.

[NutzMcKracken 17]

You have to be careful in how you state your use, as soon as the licensee find out you are using this in a commercial product they want money but their EULA or policies might state otherwise. Beware your rights as a purchaser at the time of the agreement and its clauses, as these might enable you to use the model.

The license is only as good as what it states at the time of purchase and what clauses are implemented.

On the morally grey side of things (which I'm not comfortable with so much personally); as long as you aren't using it for a personal commercial gain ($) and Bohemia isn't gaining anything commercially, which realistically from the largest mod if BIS did gain anything it would be at best equated to peanuts. All custom content does is maybe increase "replay value" which in legal terms is very very hard to define, thus negligible.

So make your own judgement call I feel. After all the quality models I've seen are costly enough for the hobbyist pursuit.

[PuFu 4591]

the reason for some licenses not allowing the use of the said content in addons is the distribution that comes with it, and no other reason (and to be fair, i understand it).

When you buy a model, most licenses allow you to use it in your commercial work as long as it doesn't get spread between numerous people. I clearly understand that.

[[aps]gnat 28]

... doesn't get spread between numerous people

Is likely the problem though.

Some Distributors interpret "addon distribution" a little differently no doubt.

Questions would arise about if its a "secure format".

[PuFu 4591]

Gnat;1873284']Is likely the problem though.

Some Distributors interpret "addon distribution" a little differently no doubt.

Questions would arise about if its a "secure format".

don't want to start this again, but there is no such thing as secure format, no matter what game engine we are talking about...guess that is the whole issue about, and not what one is allowed to do with it (being it commercial or not, pending if the license makes the distinction between the two).

[DaveP 66]

It sounds logical that you can use the model you bought that you paid for in the process addons, doesnt it.

Consider two 3d modellers

Person A is a 3D animator who enjoys making short films about his pet kangaroo; one day he wants to make a short film where the kangaroo is recreating part of Platoon, and so in turn wants an army helmet for him. He goes on to turbosquid, buys the license for a helmet model, uses it in his film, and 1000s of people see it. If he credits the modeller from Turbosquid, maybe they even get some good business

Person B is a modder for Half Life 2 who enjoys making new player models for Counter Strike Source. One day he decides to make a WW2 airborne infantry model, goes on turbosquid, buys the license for a helmet model, uses it in his model, and 1000s of people download a copy of it. There's a possibility someone will open up his work and take that helmet to use in their own work, without the original licenser's permission. If he credits the modeller from Turbosquid, he might get some extra business, but not enough to outweigh the risk of his work getting ripped off (as, of course, there is no truly secure 3D model format, just as much as there really is no truly secure file format in general)

There's very different applications for 3D models, and the licenses need to reflect this

[granQ 293]

i was also considering buying some models that seemed perfect for the game (good detail, but low on faces/poly and intreseting models).. however I managed to find the user directly and with some google (sweden got very much information), i managed to send an SMS to his daugther :) anyway, got the models for free.

Thats reply since gnat asked why he haven't seen this more.. and I think its the license thing, its crazy when you think about people making so good quality stuff "for fun", but then they don't let go of it because they know it could mean money.

Wish we could see more "creative commons" 3d models.

[NutzMcKracken 17]

Here's a spin on this as well, ArmA is very niche in the broad spectrum of gaming, let alone First Person Shooters, tactical, what have you... Were not here to make a profit, and I feel that if you paid for a said model on TurboSquid or other and that artist gets paid opposed to passing him up and finding one that free, I think you're in the right.

I get the distribution bit and all and that even binarised models aren't secure. That's not the deal I think. Its more of where the focus is. If ArmA ever got to be as popular as BF2, BFBC2 etc, etc MW2...list goes on, then there's concerns, but even some mod stuff in BF2 was "ripped" and no one raised a big stink.

Depends on size of target audience and exposure, mixed with ease of reproduction to other formats. Yes it can be done but is it easy...no, probably just as much work to export and implement for other needs.

[max power 21]

Well, under the usual agreement between mod makers and developers, those ripped models from BF2 mods are the legal property of DICE. AFAIK, BIS is very unusual in that it does not profess to own the products of its tools.