Fields of War: Normandy 1.00 and beyond WIP thread (formerly The 31st Normandy mod)

[Enigma85 2]

Yep i understand that.

FH has inspired me so much.

I just hope to get to the standard of skins they produce at somepoint.

Oh by the way.

The Cromwell is over 4 years old from OFP. :)

[T_Roc 0]

That cromwell is very old. There are new textures today.

[jojimbo 0]

Topas is bang on, thats definately Montoya's FH texture on that Cromwell, nice job guys

[Enigma85 2]

Topas is bang on, thats definately Montoya's FH texture on that Cromwell, nice job guys

I could see how the untrained eye can see that.

There are obvious differences between the two.

so lets not go jumping to conclusions.

I recall T-Roc was having someone work on the textures for him.

How do you not know that it wasn't Montoya provided T-Roc with the texture from the Cromwell?

At the end of the day we have 2 Cromwells so if there is a problems with this (highly unlikely) we can just switch to the other.

So lets not try to assume in others threads to start crap.

At the end of the when you assume you know you the saying

make an ASS out of U and ME

If there's a problem it will be solved before release,nice try guys.

Anyways I've taken the screen down and will look further into it.

Edited December 3, 2010 by XxEnigmAxX

[Waxbutter 6]

To avoid personal confrontations,

i am departing from this MOD (Fields of War).

Waxbutter

[mr pedersen 41]

To avoid personal confrontations,

I am departing from this MOD (Fields of War).

MrPedersen

[T_Roc 0]

The only honorable thing i can do is to leave this mod and the community.

So bye bye.

[JdB 151]

I could see how the untrained eye can see that.

There are obvious differences between the two.

so lets not go jumping to conclusions.

I recall T-Roc was having someone work on the textures for him.

How do you not know that it wasn't Montoya provided T-Roc with the texture from the Cromwell?

At the end of the day we have 2 Cromwells so if there is a problems with this (highly unlikely) we can just switch to the other.

So lets not try to assume in others threads to start crap.

At the end of the when you assume you know you the saying

make an ASS out of U and ME

If there's a problem it will be solved before release,nice try guys.

Anyways I've taken the screen down and will look further into it.

No assumption was needed, only some people that are experienced texture artists. No one accused the mod of using the artwork without permission, the similarities just brought up some questions regarding the permission status. This questioning may have been influenced by the fact that this also isn't the first time that tanks from other mods/games have been used in 31st Normandy/FoW without permission (I'm not judging whether it was intentional or not). I44's Panther and Stug III were also donated to the mod a few years ago by someone, which may be the biggest flaw in the open minded nature of the mod, it hurts the reputation of the mod among other mods and addonmakers.

[Comparison]

Ten striking texture effects that are shaped identically. You might get the odd similar effect as another texture artist, but never at least ten that are plainly visible on a single screenshot, and all in the same place as in the other author's vehicle.

Not saying any member intended to use it without permission, but the fact that you are looking into it does seem to point out that the origin of this artwork wasn't know to the team as a whole, or the leader(s).

Edited December 3, 2010 by JdB

[beton 2]

This seems to become a black day for WW2 addons in arma2. :(

I know for shure that troc would never release stuff which is based on other peoples hard work without permission simply because he doesn´t have to. Hopefully the community has not lost another talented modeler.

[topas 1]

Now in which point did this become what it is now?

:eek:

I made a simple question; just because I was curious - if this originates from Forgotten Hope. I did not accuse anyone of anything; and even if it looked as such to anyone - was not meant to...

It's just that from experience and to my best knowledge (which may be only partial, I know) Battlefield mods are not keen on sharing their work... Seeing BF-native artwork in here just made me ask this question.

Simple as it is... I'm no watchdog to visit threads and ask if addons shown are legit or not. Grown-up men are doing these, it's their responsibility and conscience, not mine

What's the deal with people leaving the crew now?

:j:

[stephsen 79]

The only honorable thing i can do is to leave this mod and the community.

So bye bye.

NOOOOOOOOOOO:eek:...thats the wrong way let others chat this is just teasing

ww2 mod vs. ww2 mod is not the more,not take it so seriously,no one here was like when you go...come on T_roc:butbut:

[T_Roc 0]

Hello everyone

I am not going to leave, but cant work in this mod anymore.

For this 4 year old crime i am quilty sorry for this.

But this very old mod (ofp) was something i did privatley for my own use.

Some people asked me for it and i gave it out on the restriction the no pics or download should happen.

This is now broken i have tho take punisment for it

Maybe i thrusted some people for it too much, but all others have kept their promise.

For this they have my respect.

For future complaints about this please keep it privatley and send me it on my private messages.

I will answer you there.

Edited December 4, 2010 by T_Roc
Spelling what else

[rip31st 98]

Too many people here are overly concerned what the other is doing. These addons are free. They are for our own use. No one is making money from them.

I don't investigate every model offered for my mod. I won't, there is no time to do it with 7 kids and a full time job.

I don't compare our mod to others. I don't think our mod is above anyone elses. I am not worried about how many people will use it. Maybe the same mentaility should be shared community wide and then, maybe then we could all get along.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

7 kids and a full time job? How the hell do you have time to sleep let alone do addon making?

[abs 2]

7 kids

Holy shit! Are you serious?! :eek:

Abs

[jojimbo 0]

I don't investigate every model offered for my mod.

Thats why people are too overly concerned, BIS has a serious policy about intellectual rights I suggest you read it, seein' as you're meant to be a mod leader;)

Maybe the same mentaility should be shared community wide and then, maybe then we could all get along.

I would never plagarize anyone elses work or ever share the mentality you suggest, taking on board any addon as a dumping ground is not acceptable.

[beton 2]

Hm...

as far as i can say none of the members of "Fields of war" has used or plagiarized anyone´s ip. The picture that was posted by XXEnigmAXX was a picture of a very old model made for private purpose only. It came up as an "this is how the tank should look like" example. Since we all know about the quality of the models from FH it is out of question that they are state of the art.

The picture and only the picture was just shared for internal reference and was not meant to be shown in public in any way.

I would never plagarize anyone elses work or ever share the mentality you suggest, taking on board any addon as a dumping ground is not acceptable.

None of the members of this mod would do that either or what would you think? Your comment implicates the opposite.

By the way.. Fields of war is not a dumping ground... don´t let this become a mud-wrestling, please.

But in the end it´s always the same... somebody is crying and somebody is laughing... right?

[rip31st 98]

Thats why people are too overly concerned, BIS has a serious policy about intellectual rights I suggest you read it, seein' as you're meant to be a mod leader;)

I would never plagarize anyone elses work or ever share the mentality you suggest, taking on board any addon as a dumping ground is not acceptable.

and now...the overly concerned appear!

[JdB 151]

and now...the overly concerned appear!

Seeing as you used both Invasion 1944's Panther and Stug III tanks before without permission, and claimed not to know the mod even existed before you were contacted (for the Stug III, only to be contacted again later on for unauthorized use of the Panther), it makes perfect sense for addonmakers to be concerned, especially when their mod deals with the same period in time, and is therefore more susceptible to being Ripped-off. One instance never shows a pattern of behaviour, but after a few times, combined with the attitude shown in your could instill the idea that there is an ulterior motive rather than ignorance to those who are susceptible to such ideas. It makes perfect sense for people to "donate" other people's addons without asking them if the founder of the mod displays such a lack of respect for the Intellectual Property rights of the original authors.

You may have a very open attitude to sharing and re-using content, but not everyone is like that, and won't appreciate the mod's donation "don't ask don't tell" use. Very easy to replicate all of WW2 with such an attitude.

Edited December 4, 2010 by JdB

[PacUK 1]

I wouldn't usually stick my oar in but with about 15 years modding across various games I felt it worth noting a few things here...

These addons are free. They are for our own use. No one is making money from them.

This does not exclude you from intellectual property right laws, a number of mods and freeware games have been forced to cease production for acting outside them. There's also a big difference beetween your own private use, and publicly releasing the content.

I don't investigate every model offered for my mod.

The possibility of having someone submit unoriginal works leaves you open a range of possible issues, many games include in their terms of agreement that content, even modded content cannot be ported to another game engine in some cases. A lack of time doesn't excuse not knowing the origin of material you release. Also content doesn't only relate to models but sounds, textures, scripts and coding.

The fact is an image of a tank from another game was posted on public forums plastered with badges of Fields of War that claimed it as work of the mod giving both a false impression of the quality of your own teams work, as well as taking credit for another persons hard work.

While I'm sure the FoW team don't intend on this to happen and this incident was an apparent mistake/miscommunication between team members, an open submission policy with no effort to ensure original work is being provided leaves the mod very vulnerable to others submitting any content as their own while you're left in the firing line.

As a member of another WW2 mod I have concerns over our work being ported into another mod without consent or credit, and when some of our members have been working on this content since Op Flashpoint days, I'd say they have every right to be overly concerned when an incident such as this occurs.

[Enigma85 2]

What everyone seems to have over looked is that the model was never submitted to us.

and would have never been submitted to us.

It was a Private use model from T-Roc that only he used.

The mistake was made when it was posted in the forum containing Normandy Armor.

Seeing a Finished model in the section I made the Media screen up.

and posted away.

The model however was posted as a reference pointing out the "Little Details"

on the models and how much of a difference it makes to the final texture.

Looking back into the thread i saw that and took the Blame for the mistake.

T-Roc has left due to somehow feeling mistrust towards the mod for a honest mistake on my part.

Was and Pederson have left on integrity grounds for the same reasons,

They don't feel they can trust the mod because of the problem.

However. We can never control fully what gets donated to us.

People come on board send something and we take there word for it.

It's only when posting that someone says.

"Hey, Is that XYZ model" Then we have to look into it.

If we investigated every model then there would be no time to even get work done.

INV44 as you say,

I remember the Stug incident,

Although i don't remember the panther from your mod.

But i remember a panther donated to us that was from a 3D modelling site.

But that's neither here nor there.

They were all dealt with,Removed from the mod and apologies were given.

I know this isn't enough for some.

Who want to see us Hung Drawn Quarters And then Stapled together and Crucified for every thing that comes up.

well to be honest,

This isn't the time to be Sticking the oar in.

It's reasonably obvious that our mod is in trouble.

Community mod or not.

We don't need any more help unless it's throwing us a paddle for the brown creak were on ;).

Enough with this anyways.

What happens,Happens.

An Honest Mistake, Is still a Mistake.

And i Publicly will come out and say i am sorry for:

1: Confusing people with a render that was never for inclusion in the mod.

2: Posting the Screen without express permission from T-Roc

3: Making the mistake which could ultimately be the end of the mod,

4: Causing Trust Issues within the team which should have never Happened.

5: Finally Causing the Walkout of T-Roc, Waxbutter And MrPederson.

Once again i Apologize to the community.

To anyone I've inconvenienced.

To the Forgotten Hope Guys,For the whole problematic thing.

But Most of all.

To the Fields Of War Team.

Who i feel I've hurt the most.

Now lets just leave this be please.

There is no need to continue on with topic.

We'll continue to keep the community informed no matter what.

Thanks,

Enigma

Edited December 4, 2010 by XxEnigmAxX

[JarmenKeLL 0]

Every member of FoW team is sacrificing from their special time and making some good job here. Nobody denies that. We was making good progress until this case showing up. There was no released stolen goods or something like that, its just a mistaken render and its not the first time to showing up these cases on community.

We has very good future plans and good stuff to donate all the community until this case. This team has very good progress and good job on the mod and only thing we care about is enjoying our mod "together". Everyone has mistakens of their past time. But acting like whole mod is "stolen" is worst thing i ever seen. People here is clearly showing their bad intent to the mod.

By the way i really dont care who is leaving the mod so "suddenly" or who has bad thinks against us. I love this game and i will continue making addons to this game. I dont care anybody here or what they talking about us. I'll continue giving life to my dreams on this game with my mod members.

[rip31st 98]

Our mod is community contributed material. I take peoples word for what they donate as either their own originally authored work, or they have gained permissions to use that material.

I have tried to be respectful throughout. The panther issue was quite some time ago, it was addressed. Again it wasn't my material, another person submitted that work. It was removed from the mod.

The fact that you bring it up, go hunting these various sites for possible copyright infringement, shows you have a lot of time on your hands for something as simple as a video game that provides entertainment for people to have fun.

IF in fact these donators have not authored original material, and you feel your intellectual property rights have been violated. I suggest then you seek legal representation, pay a retainer, and suit them in a court of law.

Otherwise, stop complaining like a bunch of whining children and get out and go play on all those servers running INV44. You should be happy with your own success.

[Defunkt 431]

If I44 have been wronged they can seek the redress available via BIS moderation, if they feel others have been wronged they can inform them (and leave them to pursue their own redress). I'm sure FoW are aware of the environment they operate in and I don't see how they could possibly intend to release others' IP here as their own. I for one appreciate their less-than-precious approach to modding and the measure of their integrity should be their willingness to put things right when mistakes are made and this to me seems evident. IMO it would reflect poorly on the I44 team if they continued to make over-much of this issue here especially as it would appear they're not even the injured party in this matter.

[max power 21]

The fact that you bring it up, go hunting these various sites for possible copyright infringement, shows you have a lot of time on your hands for something as simple as a video game that provides entertainment for people to have fun.

IF in fact these donators have not authored original material, and you feel your intellectual property rights have been violated. I suggest then you seek legal representation, pay a retainer, and suit them in a court of law.

Otherwise, stop complaining like a bunch of whining children and get out and go play on all those servers running INV44. You should be happy with your own success.

You're quite fortunate to have such caring and perceptive people looking out for you, Rip31st. If this 'render mistake' was to get published in mod form before it was noticed, there may have been consequences. Here is the deal: We have a community that cares about the rights of creative people. If you can't handle people piping up when you post screenshots of others peoples' work without their knowledge or permission and claim it's your own work... find a different community? I don't quite what advice to give here. This is a discussion forum, after all. From what I see, the people who brought this up weren't even being jerks about it.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Max Power