China Hijacks the Internet

[walker 0]

Hi all

China has been accused by a report to the US congress of hijacking US Defense Internet traffic.

China internet hijack: a guide

2:18PM GMT 18 Nov 2010

Cyber terrorism is a growing threat, and of increasing concern to governments around the world. But just what did the latest alleged cyber attack by a Chinese telecommunications firm involve, and what purpose did it serve?

China Telecom, a state-owned business, has denied US claims that it hijacked 15 per cent of the world’s web traffic for a total of 18 minutes earlier this year.

This included traffic to and from the websites of the US Army, Navy and Marine Corps, the office of the US defence secretary, the US Senate and Nasa, as well as more general internet traffic.

It is unclear whether the company was denying that traffic passed through its web servers at all on April 8, or simply that it was not diverted through its servers on purpose...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/8143286/China-internet-hijack-a-guide.html

As always follow the link for the original text in full

In the light of China's current negotiations on trade, the Chinese Submarine appearing in the middle of the US Fleet, China's campaign to boycott the Nobel Peace Prize and what many thought looked like a missile launch off the California coast are we entering another cold war?

the full report is available here

http://www.uscc.gov/annual_report/2010/10_annual_report.php

Regards walker

Edited November 19, 2010 by walker

[shobhit 10]

There have been reports of succesful chinese attacks on Indian defence sites as well. the hackers made off with quite a bit of classified bit of information. China has developed a doctrine to effectively stall and jam a nations communications and information networks using cyber attacks. scary

[vilas 477]

China want to be superpower, more close to OFP2DR :/

not only hacking, but also putting on our market poisoning products which are stopped in difference countries by "health agencies, health inspections" (in US it is called other way "Departament of healt" ???, but some children died , it was written in news about one product, in my country it is "Trade Inspection" "Sanitarian Epidemiological Inspection")

customer not knows too much, cause customer in shop has "already filtrated" products, but when you know someone who works in such "Trade/health/whatever named agency" you are angry on China companies

[[frl]myke 14]

Well, call me racist but i try to avoid products "made in china" wherever i can. I'm not a patriot either, i just look that products i use are made with a certain quality and workers are fair paid (whatever that means these days).

[Baff1 0]

If they put up trade sanctions against China, I would expect a Cold War.

The thing I like about products from China, is after I buy one that costs me £2.50, the guy sends me at least two personal emails and thanks me for my custom.

He really wants my money.

I can't see the point in paying 10 times as much to someone who doesn't even appreciate it.

[vilas 477]

I can't see the point in paying 10 times as much to someone who doesn't even appreciate it.

but than unemployment in US and Europe begins

people without work > more problems, worse life, more anger , etc etc

[walker 0]

Hi all

The US officially owes China over a Trillions of Dollars, more than half the US's Sovereign debt all of it was run up during the Bush administration; which Cheney ran up on the philosophy of "Reagan proved deficits don't matter" yeh right.

That is beside US Business Debt to China.

The Bush administration essentially put the USA's economic testicles in the Chinese governments hands.

I think much of what we see now is China reminding the USA what the situation is.

President Obama has been paying off chunks of it since he came to power and trying to shift more of it to friendlier powers but China just keeps buying any that is on the Market often through intermediaries, without a massive increase in US taxes it is going to be a slow and painful process, that could take decades.

Regards walker

Edited November 20, 2010 by walker

[MehMan 0]

China wants to invade the US. I better go investigate, just let me get my disguise and sidekick.

HERRO, HERRO PREASE!

[walker 0]

Hi MehMan

China does not want to invade the US they are not going to kill the goose that is laying them the Golden Eggs, of X% interest on all those loans.

China is just flexing its muscle particularly those that hold the USA's economic testicles in their vice like grip.

China does this to say it will not allow the US dollar to devalue against Chinese Yuan. It also uses it to tell the US to tow the Chinese line on human rights. Of course since Guantanamo etc. the US no longer holds the higher moral ground on that.

The US wants to devalue the Dollar as part of a program of Government Bond Seigniorage essentially taxation by inflation. You sell people lots bonds in your currency at exchange rate X to their own currency then cut the value of your currency. This means you make lots of money at their expense.

Of course china is not dumb and has pegged the Chinese Yuan to the US dollar.

A recent study showed that Government Bond Seigniorage had become bigger than money Seigniorage as a portion of GDP.

Kind Regards walker

Edited November 19, 2010 by walker

[Tonci87 163]

Anyone remembers Command&Conquer Generals where the Cinese had those Hackers?

Back then I thought Chinese Hackers WTF? But today.......

[Ulanthorn 10]

China want to be superpower

You may not have noticed...but China IS a superpower already.

Trade sanctions do not work, since there is no country in the world. including the USA that is not directly dependent on Chinese tradeware.

just a example...Without chinese premanufactured parts or chinese steel most of the german Industry would have to cease production.

There would be no I-phones, no I tablets no macs no personAL computers...no consumer high tech anymore.

China rules the world trade already and it got there unnoticed just because a few western individuals made profit with it.

Thats why there will never be any sanction against China...since China can devaluate the US dollar as retaliation at any time it likes.

Edited November 19, 2010 by Ulanthorn

[walker 0]

You may not have noticed...but China IS a superpower already.

+1 On that.

Kind Regards walker

[Tonci87 163]

Yes thats true, China is one of the biggest (I would evven say the second biggest) superpowers in the world

[mrcash2009 0]

If they put up trade sanctions against China, I would expect a Cold War.

China’s hawks demand cold war on the US

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article7017951.ece

The next bout of world manipulation is on the way then.

China rules the world trade already and it got there unnoticed just because a few western individuals made profit with it.

Thats why there will never be any sanction against China...since China can devaluate the US dollar as retaliation at any time it likes.

Setup?

[nodunit 397]

Sorry wrong thread.

[shobhit 10]

Trade sanctions against China is the second worst idea after Justins Bieber's Mom and Dad thinking of having kids. Almost all of the major manufacturing plants of western brands and companies are in China. There are massive manufacturing "districts" where the workers of the plants live and work (China's ability to mass mobilize is awesome). Impose sanctions on China and risk running your own corporations to the ground. To actually muscle in on China, the whole manufacturing base would have to slowly shifted and divided between other countries (provided they are ready) but I doubt China would allow that. Chinese Hackers is just a small part of the puzzle in their goal for information supremacy. Cyber warfare reminds me of the 1st splinter cell. Good times :)

[Ulanthorn 10]

China is not solely a production location anymore, it's has consumers in masses...the three best known car manufactureres of germany sold more cars to China last year than to Europe or USA alltogether. Volkswagen, BMW, Mercedes. May sound strange for some here that stil have a old fashiojned picture of China, but China is currently oen of the largest costumer for german engeering goods like Train Systems, manufacturing machines or luxury cars....we wait for copies soon ;)

Edited November 20, 2010 by Ulanthorn

[-Snafu- 78]

+1 On that.

Kind Regards walker

Not quite there yet. Only when it has large aircraft carriers and the ability to project military power at any point in the globe will it be one. It may have economic power but it needs military power to back it up. A bit like the USA in the early 20th Century. Economically powerful but not much of a military power bar the USN.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Snafu

[walker 0]

Not quite there yet. Only when it has large aircraft carriers and the ability to project military power at any point in the globe will it be one. It may have economic power but it needs military power to back it up. A bit like the USA in the early 20th Century. Economically powerful but not much of a military power bar the USN.

Hmm

An Aircraft Carrier Groups ability to project power may not be all it is cracked up to be.

The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

By MATTHEW HICKLEY

Last updated at 00:13 10 November 2007

When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible shield to detect and deter any intruders.

That is the theory. Or, rather, was the theory.

Uninvited guest: A Chinese Song Class submarine, like the one that surfaced by the U.S.S. Kitty Hawk

American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.

By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492804/The-uninvited-guest-Chinese-sub-pops-middle-U-S-Navy-exercise-leaving-military-chiefs-red-faced.html

As always follow the link to the full story in context

I sure hope our western political leaders do not just believe the Aircraft Carrier hype. They may be of use against third world and perhaps even some 2nd world nations but stealthy subs with cruise missile or ICBM and even submarine launched sea skiming missile capabilities trump them every time and give you full power projections capabilities.

Snafu the fact that China can put a submarine undetected in to the middle of the USA's most powerful and advanced carrier strike group, within a strike range of seconds on the carrier iself, makes your assertion sound hollow.

I resubmit that China is a super power already and further it will be the supreme super power by the end of this century and on par with the US in less than two decades.

Kind Regards walker

[-Snafu- 78]

Hmm

An Aircraft Carrier Groups ability to project power may not be all it is cracked up to be.

Obviously, aircraft carriers are not the be all and end all of naval warfare, however, there are only three reasons to have an aircraft carrier. Those reasons are power projection, power projection and power projection. If you can't project a significant amount of military power anywhere in the globe then you are not a superpower. Submarines and ICBMs are useless against land assets under threat from, say, militia or another nation. To secure them China would need to deploy troops and those troops need air cover and that means they need a mobile airfield, in other words, an aircraft carrier! It will have to deploy troops overseas and you can't do that without an aircraft carrier. It is only in the early stages of carrier development and if it wants to be a superpower it needs that power projection ability or it will never be able to defend its future significant overseas interests.

The 'superpowers' of the Cold War were the US and USSR. 'Superpowers' in that they were the only two nations able to match each other politically, militarily and economically around the globe. The Chinese aren't quite there yet. A nation can't be a superpower on economic power alone.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Snafu

[shobhit 10]

China is not solely a production location anymore, it's has consumers in masses...the three best known car manufactureres of germany sold more cars to China last year than to Europe or USA alltogether. Volkswagen, BMW, Mercedes. May sound strange for some here that stil have a old fashiojned picture of China, but China is currently oen of the largest costumer for german engeering goods like Train Systems, manufacturing machines or luxury cars....we wait for copies soon ;)

True. We should not overlook China as MASSIVE consumer market.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

So, after the ridiculous debt that bush and obama have given us, the united states is finally falling to its knee's. Couldn't see that coming... :rolleyes:

People who still think we are above china and even the top super power are delusional. We may be the richest guy on the block, swimming in our toys and technology, but we are also the most indebted to the neighborhood. We are nothing but a homeless guy with a HUGE impossible to pay loan. Our only way of getting rid of this debt is to monetize it, which really pisses of china because there pegged yuan is dropping like a waterfall.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

tactical,

I don't reckon a gentleman indebted with $13+ Trillions along with $50+T unfunded obligations to various entities as being the richest guy on the block.

To this day, starting from... times immemorial, or was it the 1973? US owes it's standard of life to the Asian countries, China in particular.

The Federal Reserve Note of the Federal Reserve Bank of United States of America is still viewed as a world reserve currency -- the only reason this hold true is due to the fact that the Chinese haven't unpegged the Yuan, nor have they done a whole lot with their FRN cash reserves, which are in the range of a few Trillion.

Not to mention that Mr. Chairman of the FRB and chairman of FRB NY are working real hard to devalue the USD for some unfathomable reason known only to them, or cynic few who watch this grandeur spectacle unfold. :clap:

tl;dr version: Does a war break out before, or after the announcement of a one world currency. In the best traditions of the United Nations, formerly known as The League of Nations, I'd put my wealth on the former.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Iroquois Pliskin

[tacticalnuggets 24]

tactical,

I don't reckon a gentleman indebted with $13+ Trillions along with $50+T unfunded obligations to various entities as being the richest guy on the block.

To this day, starting from... times immemorial, or was it the 1973? US owes it's standard of life to the Asian countries, China in particular.

The Federal Reserve Note of the Federal Reserve Bank of United States of America is still viewed as a world reserve currency -- the only reason this hold true is due to the fact that the Chinese haven't unpegged the Yuan, nor have they done a whole lot with their FRN cash reserves, which are in the range of a few Trillion.

Not to mention that Mr. Chairman of the FRB and chairman of FRB NY are working real hard to devalue the USD for some unfathomable reason known only to them, or cynic few who watch this grandeur spectacle unfold. :clap:

tl;dr version: Does a war break out before, or after the announcement of a one world currency. In the best traditions of the United Nations, formerly known as The League of Nations, I'd put my wealth on the former.

Thats exactly what I said lol. The standard measure of GDP is flawed.

[walker 0]

...Not to mention that Mr. Chairman of the FRB and chairman of FRB NY are working real hard to devalue the USD for some unfathomable reason known only to them, or cynic few who watch this grandeur spectacle unfold. :clap: ...

Hi Iroquois Pliskin

As I pointed out in an earlier post replying to MehMan the reason Mr. Chairman of the FRB and chairman of FRB NY are trying to devalue the US Dollar is something called Seigniorage; which a primary income source of national banks such as the FRB.

In particular Government Bond Seigniorage, you may note the nationality of the author though the US FRB is happy to take the old fashioned cash Seigniorage too.

Seigniorage is a form of Inflation Based Taxation policy. Some also call it a Ponzi scheme. The Republican party has always favoured this as its primary taxation method in the US; as it is stealthy and does not affect those who are wealthy enough to shift money's out of the country or into assets and commodities that accumulate value during times of inflation.

Essentially it is a tax on the poor and middle classses or those who are rich but do not know, or are too nationalistic to realise the purpose and effects of inflation. It is also a flat rate Tax; in that those who are poor pay the same percentage per dollar as those who are rich and or stupid enough to have too much cash when the inflation tax is applied. It is also a way of redistributing wealth to the wealthy as the real value of wages are driven down. While those in the know shift to foreign investments then return and buy up cheap assets.

Importantly Signiorage is great way of exporting taxation to those who buy your currency and or bonds have to pay it. A recent study showed that Government Bond Seigniorage had become bigger than money Seigniorage as a portion of GDP. Which is where China comes in!

Of course China is no longer so dumb as to fall for the Ponzi Scheme and just pegs the Yuan to the US dollar. It also buys enough dollars and US Debt which it can forclose on and thus ensure it can wipe out the US dollar if US bankers push too hard.

China has been spending an awful lot of money on education and in particular in training and retaining economists. Some of the best economists in the world are Chinese. Government Economist is one of the best jobs in China and they are linked to the Chinese PLA; so that gives you an idea of how seriously China takes foreign exchange as a defense issue.

Kind Regards walker

Edited November 21, 2010 by walker