ASR AI Skills

[Hillsbills 1]

I've toned my AI accuracy down to a reasonable level just using the BI slider. Somewhere around 75-80%. When I had it at 100% and updated ACR on the last release I was getting those AI bullets that will hit you in the head every time even when you're strafing in an A-10, turning it down fixed that.

[aeggwards1 10]

Something to raise in the i44 thread then.

---------- Post added at 01:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 PM ----------

It is not an I44 problem though as it happens without any mods but ASR. I only mentioned I44 as that is where I first noticed it as their armour crew only has pistols. Remove the weapons for the crew in vanilla armour with ASR on and the problem is still thereq.

---------- Post added at 06:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------

Does it happen as well with AI rearming off?

No, if you turn off rearming via the userconfig or at the start of the mission via the radio menu the problem doesn't appear.

[metalcraze 290]

It is, because the AI regularly kills me with their first shot and they're neither snipers nor are we at short range.

If AI kills you with the first shot that means you are sitting still for too long in his view which gives him enough time to zero in on you.

And why should he miss? It's as easy as putting a red dot over enemy's body and pulling the trigger provided there's no strong wind (if playing with ACE). Effective range of most assault rifles is 300-400m which means there's no bullet drop within that distance. If a player can do it with ease why not AI?

Even then it doesn't happen most of the time. Do a test I've recommended and see that most of the time AI will not hit you with 1 shot. And often not even with 10.

Edited January 28, 2013 by metalcraze

[domokun 515]

If AI kills you with the first shot that means you are sitting still for too long in his view which gives him enough time to zero in on you.

And why should he miss? It's as easy as putting a red dot over enemy's body and pulling the trigger provided there's no strong wind (if playing with ACE). Effective range of most assault rifles is 300-400m which means there's no bullet drop within that distance. If a player can do it with ease why not AI?

Even then it doesn't happen most of the time. Do a test I've recommended and see that most of the time AI will not hit you with 1 shot. And often not even with 10.

1) I never suggested that I could drop an AI with 1-2 shots with ease

2) It's not easy when your target is moving, which I am except when I'm shooting

3) Shooting under battlefield conditions is NOT as easy as many people believe, especially at ranges past 200m (stress, fatigue, movement, visibility, etc.)

[medusacadenza 6]

It is, because the AI regularly kills me with their first shot and they're neither snipers nor are we at short range.

Empirical evidence suggests that large numbers of rounds are usually required to kill a soldier.

Thanks for the confirmation though that in order to reduce AI accuracy one if obliged to reduce their skill.

It seems rather stupid that BI goes to the trouble of creating 2 separate parameters (skill & accuracy) only to nerf the second and merge it with the first.

I don't want retarded AI, I just want less accurate AI.

Ideally I'd like smart AI but without the instant-kill effect.

So if anyone has any tips, I'm all ears.

I agree. the AI is too precise.

[metalcraze 290]

1) I never suggested that I could drop an AI with 1-2 shots with ease

2) It's not easy when your target is moving, which I am except when I'm shooting

3) Shooting under battlefield conditions is NOT as easy as many people believe, especially at ranges past 200m (stress, fatigue, movement, visibility, etc.)

With ASR AI it took AI ~60 bullets to even hit my soldier standing still at 200m distance and I used max skill in the editor + 1.0 skill in difficulty. Which is actually a ridiculously bad result and maybe even an issue that needs fixing in ASR? Need to run more tests. In vanilla and the same scenario 1.0-skill AI is very precise btw.

AI won't hit you when you are moving either. In any case too precise AI definitely isn't a problem with ASR AI unless you are sitting still and that said AI is within 50m and not under fire himself.

Maybe the issue here is that you have too many AIs vs. you?

As a side note - any, even slight numerical advantage on defenders side is dangerous for an attacker. A general rule is that attacking side must always have at least twice as many people to beat defenders with minimum casualties.

One thing is when 1 gun is firing at you, the other is when 3 do.

Otherwise I dunno man. Maybe try lowering skill slider in difficulty? I have mine at 0.75-0.85 for ASR (depending on how packed the mission with enemies is)

Edited January 29, 2013 by metalcraze

[Tonci87 163]

The AI isn´t that precise.

You know that ASR assigns a different skill to different unit types. A Spec Op will kill you quite fast, while a farmer will have some problems.

[kklownboy 43]

With ASR AI it took AI ~60 bullets to even hit my soldier standing still at 200m distance and I used max skill in the editor + 1.0 skill in difficulty. Which is actually a ridiculously bad result and maybe even an issue that needs fixing in ASR?

Wow you have some other issue if thats the results from 200m.....

[Robalo 465]

There can be very different results coming from mixing ASR_AI with other mods. For example when used with ACE the CfgAISkill from ACE is now used which results in less accurate AI. That's probably the only thing that is not shared in AI settings between ACE and my mod. In the future I will make sure to override the ACE settings so the results will be more common.

For now at least you can tweak as needed. If the AI is too accurate, chances are you're not using ACE or who knows what other conflicting mod each player might also have so no point in arguing here whether the AI is or not too accurate.

[metalcraze 290]

Yep I guess that's ACE after all.

I just thought ASR was overriding ACE since iirc both mods share stuff.

Need that update then.

[delta99 34]

Wow you have some other issue if thats the results from 200m.....

Agreed, something else is completely messed here.

[-Coulum- 35]

Yep ACE ruins ai's shooting ability. When I did testing a while back with ASR alone, I found ai with aiming skills of .1 took an average of 5.36 seconds to kill a standing target from a crouched stance at 200 metres. With an aiming skill of 1, it took an average of 3.16 seconds. Never did the ai kill in their first shot - the closest they got was on their second shot, which only happened once. The shooter was artificially fed 1.5 knowsabout on the target.

These results aren't bad and show that at their top skill, ai are about as good as/maybe a tiny bit better than a human and at the lower skill they are far worse. My average was about 3 seconds, but I expended less ammo, and was able to score more "first shot kills" than the ai.

Humans however will change their "speed to accuracy ratio" depending on their situation. Ai do not. TPWC Suppression helps with this to a degree.

However, neither ai nor player shooting ability reflect the ease/difficulty of aim in real life. In reality it takes me up to 3 or 4 seconds just to line up a single accurate shot and usually it takes two or three of those to get a hit. This is with irons sights and I am not a trained soldier though. But add in combat stress and fatigue and I think it is fair to say that both player and ai are very good shots compared to reality whether using ASR or not.

3) Shooting under battlefield conditions is NOT as easy as many people believe, especially at ranges past 200m (stress, fatigue, movement, visibility, etc.)

yes, but keep in mind that if the ai shooting ability is effected by combat stress than the players shooting ability should be as well. TPWC suppression does help to "simulate" this for the ai.

[grillob3 11]

I just made a mission to test ars_ai , zeus ai(ace version), tpwc alone and both separately with tpwc, all with ace. The hardest one was with tpwc alone! i got killed really fast (really good accuracy from vanilla) and was hard to kill the enemies because they would go prone. The easy one was ars_ai because ace seems to be breaking the accuracy! 2 times i was suppose to be dead but AI shot me like more than 5 rounds from 50mts or less and missed all! so i turned and killed them! The best one was with zeus ai and tpwc because they suppressed hard shooting like crazy but not the best accuracy!

I always played with asr and just started to play mso-ace. But if i leave asr on its just to easy! can i just delete ace_c_ai_skills.pbo?will this fix asr_ai accuracy?

Thanks

[metalcraze 290]

Just try it Grillob3. It's a sound idea actually.

[jiltedjock 10]

Just try it Grillob3. It's a sound idea actually.

It's not a sound idea. Disable the setskills in the ASR AI userconfig options.

[metalcraze 290]

It's ACE skills that are the problem. The idea is to have ASR ones.

[Tonci87 163]

Well can´t ASR override ACE? Or adapt to it if ACE is detected?

[jiltedjock 10]

It's ACE skills that are the problem. The idea is to have ASR ones.

My bad, I thought he was suggesting removing the asr skills pbo but I have now read his post more carefully.:)

[Robalo 465]

Well can´t ASR override ACE? Or adapt to it if ACE is detected?

Sure it can. But I need to tweak all the settings again so I get to a point where I like how the AI is performing after the change.

Need some time to test. I'll try to get a beta version out this week-end.

[soldia 1]

That would be perfect. ACE, ASR_AI and TPWCAS works really fine here but some tweaking to improve the compatibility is always a good thing.

[seba1976 98]

Being one that always got shot on the first AI rounds, I was wondering why some people here reported so different results. And then ACE was mentioned... :).

Seriously guys, we should not compare results between ACE and non-ACE players.

[grillob3 11]

Just try it Grillob3. It's a sound idea actually.

I tried but did not like the results! i could kinda like "run and gun" killing ai everywhere, not needing to look for cover or use tactics! so no go deleting ace_c_ai_skills.pbo. What i did to work decent but not the best was setting class asr ai sys_aiskill feature = 0; and tpwcas_skillsup = 0; (where ai will change stance but now skills) now is much harder! 2-5 shots from 50-100mts and i am dead! Its the best result for me for now!

[Robalo 465]

I tried but did not like the results! i could kinda like "run and gun" killing ai everywhere, not needing to look for cover or use tactics! so no go deleting ace_c_ai_skills.pbo. What i did to work decent but not the best was setting class asr ai sys_aiskill feature = 0; and tpwcas_skillsup = 0; (where ai will change stance but now skills) now is much harder! 2-5 shots from 50-100mts and i am dead! Its the best result for me for now!

You're basically voiding most of this mod's features that way, leaving you just with just the rearming. It's better to tweak the difficulty instead, it can be done both ways, up or down.

[grillob3 11]

lol yes that was stupid! Change on user config? class level etc...?

[-Coulum- 35]

I tried but did not like the results! i could kinda like "run and gun" killing ai everywhere, not needing to look for cover or use tactics! so no go deleting ace_c_ai_skills.pbo.

I think that ACE's ace_c_ai_dispersion would also cause poor aiming on the ai's part. I would try deleting that as well.