Single (as in one) player turreted vehicles

[Murklor 10]

Just thought about something out of the blue, didnt we have single manned tanks in OFP as an option? I mean controlled like in the Battlefield series, turret with the mouse and body with the keys. I may remember TOTALLY wrong, I dont know.

I've really been missing this in A2. Of course having all those different seats is "realistic" and this version of the tank should still be there as usual, but its not exactly fun when you want to have a tank vs tank battle with your friends, or something. Filling the seats with AI make it more like a battle vs your own crew :rolleyes:

[maturin 12]

If you play as the commander yet drive the tank, you can simply use the target menu and left mouse button and your AI gunner will be superior to any human in most situations.

Hitting anything with a tank in third person is impossible as is, so allowing one person to control a tank would be a pain in the ass to set up, as well as utterly unrealistic.

[Xerxes-17 10]

Alternatively, I tink it's SLX mod that adds the "silent tank commands" so that if you are the gunner, you can send orders to your driver so seamlessly that it feels liek you are doing what you propose, providing you're in the gunner seat.

[Mudkip 0]

You can be commander but sit in the gunner's seat and control the tank at the same time.

[kireta21 13]

Just thought about something out of the blue, didnt we have single manned tanks in OFP as an option? I mean controlled like in the Battlefield series, turret with the mouse and body with the keys. I may remember TOTALLY wrong, I dont know

There were 1-AI tanks (M1A1 and T-80) in OFP config, avaliable in editor with installed Editor Upgrade. While AI manage to use those tanks relatively well, they were quite useless for player because: 1. Driver view - no gunner sights. 2 Hull followed turret, so aiming at other direction than foward lead to whole tank turning in that direction.

[Murklor 10]

Hitting anything with a tank in third person is impossible as is, so allowing one person to control a tank would be a pain in the ass to set up, as well as utterly unrealistic.

Well, allowing one guy to switch through all positions in seconds in order to shoot, drive and command is equally unrealistic and that's what is in the game. There's nothing stopping you from taking off alone in an M1 and it is a pain in the ass to do.

At least having an optional auto-tank would make it fun. And obviously, it'd be nice if BIS did it WITHOUT the flaws of OFP...

The problem with the AI is that:

- AI gunners are too accurate to make tank vs tank battles fun. There's no challenge in letting your AI shoot.

- AI commanders omni-spotting. I'm not interested if a cockroach is hiding beneath that basket 2000m away. A player commander will have much more of a challenge spotting enemy tanks and allow for tactics.

- AI drivers inability to follow your commands to the letter. If you order them "left" and "forward", they will probably do all kinds of wiggly manouvers. Player drivers are so much less indecisive and slightly less dumb on average.

If you can fill all positions with human players, great! Fantastic even! But if you cant, you're going to suffer the AI or have an incomplete tank. It would be better to have a version that left ALL control to the player (the commander is made redundant).

Yeah I know that infantry is teh shiznit in Arma 2 (using ground vehicles is almost some sort of taboo in the popular Domination missions), but I for one would enjoy seeing like 100 vehicles duke it out in the desert.

[maturin 12]

- AI commanders omni-spotting. I'm not interested if a cockroach is hiding beneath that basket 2000m away. A player commander will have much more of a challenge spotting enemy tanks and allow for tactics.

I wish. They're blind as bats in my experience. Once enemy vehicles get close in, they become dumb as bricks. I have spent thirty seconds frantically right clicking on a BMP 100m distant, waiting for my Commander, Gunner, even my own shadow AI detector, to register the armored threat practically filling up our screens and periscopes.

[MirindoR 10]

i agree, being anything toher than gunner in a tank ius outright boring, and frankly i dont care if its realistic.

asking for a driver in a multiplayer game is a joke and noone will come drive for you to the AO and then just sit there while you take out all the baddies..

just do it BF2 style it worked and it was fun.

to those that propose being commander and pointing out targets out of the radio menu, well theres hardly any satisfaction..

up to now what ive always done is switch seats. ai simply cannot be relied upon to do anything properly in arma.

mouse for turret, keys for tracks. nothing simpler nothing better.

and if u dont like it then just stick to how it is and dont download the would-be-mod.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

The thing is, the thread starter wants BIS to make it as a feature. To that, I say hell no. This is a MilSim, not BF2.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

@MirindoR: So if "BF2 style worked and was fun", why don't you go play BF2 instead? This game is supposed to be realism oriented, it's what makes this game fun for the rest of us. What you find boring, I find thrilling. I'll happily be the driver for people I know, but not for the likes of you who just wants to go out there and "kill stuff".

If this got into the game, I'd just leave - no more sense of realism left. In fact, I'd like it to be even worse; no seat changing to/from the drivers position at all, you should have to exit the tank to get in as driver. Not because of its realism, but to get rid of this soloing tendency we currently have (at least in public games). BF2/CoD gamestyle has ruined the public games...

[Wolfrug 0]

I think this was something that disappeared with the "turret" system of ArmA, since I've understood it's complicated the creation of various driver-also-gunner ground vehicles ever since. So for modding purposes, it'd be rad to be able to both drive and shoot (e.g. Mechs). For the core game; nah. But never forget the modders!

Regards,

Wolfrug

[kremator 1065]

Could be put in as a scripted entity. Using mouse to control the turret while using WASD to control the direction would be fun.

Melodrama Carl, leaving the game for an alternative mode? Get a grip :)

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Melodrama? Not at all. I'm in it only for the realism (oh well, and the editor moddability system I guess). If one man tanks became the standard method of control, then sure, I'd knew this game has evolved into the "wrong kind" and pickup something else. Civilization maybe... :) Maybe I'm just getting too old for this...

[Murklor 10]

In case you missed it, WE HAD THIS IN OFP. You know that unrealistic arcade game... Oh wait.

F**k realism, its about gameplay. And it would be OPTIONAL vehicles. Dont want to use them in your mission? Then dont.

If I can add flying Tusks that shoot backpacks in a custom mission, would you stop playing Arma 2 then?

[NeMeSiS 11]

In case you missed it, WE HAD THIS IN OFP. You know that unrealistic arcade game...

As an addon. I think it came with MFCTI. (Though only used for enemies i think)

You are free to make your own addons.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I don't remember solo tanks in OFP. At least I've never been in one. My point was that I wouldn't want to see this for the normal tanks, not even as optional vanilla tanks. I say leave it to the addon makers, that way I can at least stay clear of such missions with ease instead of figuring it out after some time in the mission.

But the technology support for doing it? Yeah sure, I don't mind. Could even have purpose for special kinds of vehicles. I just don't want to see it for normal tanks.

[Pain0815 10]

Using mouse to control the turret while using WASD to control the direction would be fun.

Thats the way it is atm, if youre the gunner and AI drives.

How about the ability to use the gun as guner only with WASD? Would make it more realistic.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Pain0815

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Not really. When you give a W command to your driver, there is no saying what he will actually do.

I used WASD in ACE2 for Arma2 to get the turret more responsive, then fine tuned with mouse. Can't use only WASD due to being digital; too slow or too inaccurate.

[Pain0815 10]

You need a functional fcs for that but irl the turret is controlled with a joystick not a mouse.

Aside what you call out for your driver, youre able to move like you are the driver of the tank...

Just use wasd to drive and mouse to shoot atm in arma, ignore the calls. But i dont like that, too.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Pain0815

[Murklor 10]

Just to confirm that this type of tank is in OFP, I installed it, went through 4 damn patches and reluctantly tried to play without womiting over the poor graphics, lol.

And yes, the auto tanks is in OFP by default - no mod needed. Its just not revealed in the editor. You have to place it with createVehicle. Its not that good because while you move the turret with the mouse, the body of the tank will auto adjust to where you're aiming. Its not fixed forward, but you cant fire sideways while driving forward. This would of course have to be changed.

But WTF BIS?!?! Why dont we have the OFP turret controls in Arma 2? :(

It looks ALOT more realistic seeing the turret move at a steady rate, rather than stutter fast/slow depending on how the player moves it.

And WTF #2 BIS?!?!? In OFP the tank was affected by weapons fire (ie it rocked when firing). Did someone say Arma 2 had better physics? :/

[CarlGustaffa 4]

WTF #1: Wasn't much into tanking in OFP, and still aren't. Not sure what what you mean by turret control, but I'm perfectly able to set keys to rotate turret at a fixed speed (except it varies with zoom).

[sprayer_faust 0]

For a game that calls itself a simulator such a feature would be a regression. A step in the right direction would be fixing/improving the problems you listed in your second post and adding proper systems (detection, FCS). It is a fun idea though, but it should fall under mod requests, not feature.

[Murklor 10]

WTF #1: Wasn't much into tanking in OFP, and still aren't. Not sure what what you mean by turret control, but I'm perfectly able to set keys to rotate turret at a fixed speed (except it varies with zoom).

The turret in OFP was handled by the mouse.

The mouse moved the aiming cursor to a position, but it didnt move the turret directly. It was a "requested move", sort of speak, not instant response. The turret then moved by itself from its last position to the "requested" position, in a smooth and steady movement. It looks so much more like the turret is being driven by an engine, rather than the hand of a player.

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

Just thought about something out of the blue, didnt we have single manned tanks in OFP as an option? I mean controlled like in the Battlefield series, turret with the mouse and body with the keys. I may remember TOTALLY wrong, I dont know.

I've really been missing this in A2. Of course having all those different seats is "realistic" and this version of the tank should still be there as usual, but its not exactly fun when you want to have a tank vs tank battle with your friends, or something. Filling the seats with AI make it more like a battle vs your own crew :rolleyes:

One man tank = A infantry guy with more armor, better weapons and faster speed. I am not claiming I am some uber player or anything, but I remember a years ago old BF2 match where I more or less dominated the whole enemy team in a tank because there tank player was crap (1 tank pr side map).

Its unfair and boring to everyone not in a tank.

Besides, unless you choose a heavy tank in Arma you still only need to push two buttons, considering most people will use 3rd person while driving, to get into the gun anyway. Change to gunner seat and right mouse button. Aim, shoot a tow missile. The end.

[Murklor 10]

One man tank = A infantry guy with more armor, better weapons and faster speed. I am not claiming I am some uber player or anything, but I remember a years ago old BF2 match where I more or less dominated the whole enemy team in a tank because there tank player was crap (1 tank pr side map).

Its unfair and boring to everyone not in a tank.

In BF2 you didnt have a tracking Javelin that could hit the tank from 2km distance and insta-kill it, where said tank cant even see the infantry. Infantry in Arma2 is insanely powerful while ground vehicles are generally weak as hell.

Personally I wanted to use the "auto tank" in a mission that has at least 5x vehicles than players (got to count all the choices). I am certainly not talking about 1 tank per side.

Besides, unless you choose a heavy tank in Arma you still only need to push two buttons, considering most people will use 3rd person while driving, to get into the gun anyway. Change to gunner seat and right mouse button. Aim, shoot a tow missile. The end.

Exactly. Why make a half-arsed seat-swapping unrealistic version when you could have two good ones, a realistic one and one aimed purely at gameplay?

Edited August 7, 2010 by Murklor