CM Operation Flashpoint 3 announced | "Oops, they're doing it again..."

[Baff1 0]

- DR MP was a ghost town within 2 months.

- DR was in the bargain bins with 1.5 months.

- Stores are accepting returns on opened copies of DR.

- DR Fansites shut down within 2 months, some with front page messages saying the game essentially sucked.

- 90% or more of the DR forum members ditched (Or were banned) before the final patch was released.

- DR Youtube videos are overflowing with negative comments about the game.

Posting all the reviews in the world won't change the facts... DR SUCKED

LMAO at youtube comments!

I think this one comes down to what you were expecting.

If you were expecting it to be the next World of Warcraft, a game which is also widely bad mouthed on youtube by the way, a game which also gets many returns, then you are right.

We are not trying to make the case to you the OpF DR is the best game EVAR!!, just that it is a decent enough title for the money.

A cheap console port.

P.S. ArmA MP is also a ghost town. Really I advise to check out dedicated MP games such as Battlefield if it is MP you seek.

Searching the internet for all the most negative comments you can find. Will provide you with a load of negative comments.

If that is all you look for, that is all you will find.

So if you do this, be aware that it says more about what you were looking for than it does about what you found.

---------- Post added at 01:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:40 PM ----------

fine if it makes you so happy the general consensus review scores are comparable. That said, i remember when helios announced a major mag review on their forums the day before the game was released and surprise -it was like a 97%. .

LMAO!

---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------

Heh, great to see you know more about me than I do. The fact it's called OFP takes a backseat to the business practices of CM. Even if RR turned out to be the best game of the decade I wouldn't buy it because I don't support frauds.

Man, I was supposed to drop the issue of CM's business practices, but as I said before, the subject of the game and the subject of its developer really do go hand-in-hand...

Oh, and Arma 2's campaign wasn't broken on launch. As I've said many times before I have no idea what strange contorted methods of playing you people were using but I did everything I was told to do in the missions and played it error-free from start to finish in v1.01 beta, even the Warfare missions. Search on YouTube and you'll find another guy who recorded it, if you need more proof.

So all those people in the tech support forum were lying?

All those patches that fixed it, didn't?

It was broken mate. I'm glad it didn't affect you.

As for CM's business pratices, I suspect the reason you despise them is also out of some misplaced loyalty to BIS.

And ultimately going to be about as grounded in fraud as other peoples comments about bad reviews and no driveable vehicles. That's the level of it round here. The people who do it, aren't all rushing to admit that (full kudos to Froggy BTW).

Edited January 1, 2011 by Baff1

[Zipper5 74]

The game wasn't broken, it had issues, that's what the patches fixed. Broken means non-functioning, it functioned. Some people ran into issues, those were almost entirely ironed out. I don't know how it screwed up so badly for them as I didn't once see it, but I'm glad that BIS worked hard to get them fixed post-release.

My "loyalty" to BIS is hardly misplaced, they are the only developer which has remained PC exclusive (aside from OFP:E), and they are one of two developers who support their titles properly these days. I might be "loyal" to them, but they've certainly proven that they're "loyal" to us in return. I can hardly say the same for Codemasters.

[Baff1 0]

I read almost all of the major reviews for both games, and their content and criticism were vastly different. The point is (and you know it) is that the consumers widely panned DR and even their diehard Legends and advocates deserted it after seeing it was not the game that had been advertised especially before the desertion of their lead programmar. Read between the lines mate -you seem to have a need for either pedantical "I told you so nah nah nah" discussion or your just trying to be provocative to pass your days.

You know as well as i do (being a long time CM forum member myself) the game failed and all have left.

I don't judge a game by how active the forums are. That's not my criteria.

I fully recognise that many people who bought the game complained about it.

But I take that with a little salt. After all shed loads of people complained about COD and WoW and ARmA and inded every game ever released.

If you listened to only the multitudes of bad feedback about WoW for example, you wouldn't think that it is in fact a groundbreaking, well made, well designed and world record breaking game that takes more money than the average African nation and single handlely sells more game copies than every PS3 game combined.

And if you read about WoW primarily at the Forums of it's rivals say...Lord Of the Rings online for example. You would mainly hear about how shit it is and many many bad reviews woould also be brought to you attention.

You would in fact think it was a POS rip off game and that Blizzard was defrauding everyone and acting criminally etc etc etc.

I'm sorry Froggy, but I've heard all this before about too many games by too many rival fanboy types.

In fact, I've even done it myself in the past.

I've seen games that really have sunk under a mire of bad feedback from the customers and DR isn't one of them. Sorry. (Matrix Online springs to mind).

I completely accept however that you can find plenty of bad feedback and that for many people it was a big disappointment.

I also accept that it is a pretty disposable title with comparatively little replay value. I expect RR to be the same.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Baff1

[Perforator 10]

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/operation-flashpoint-dragon-rising-mission-editing-modding-chat-zone-123

Thats what I stay for.

Scripting!

Well I must admit that not many people your age have an interest in learning scripting so I'll give you a high five for that.

I reckon a career in the gaming industry would suit you perfectly Ben.

[Baff1 0]

The game wasn't broken, .

Broken.

No excuses.

Broken.

The campaign did not work.

How much time and effort does it take to play test your campaign?

Sorry.

The reviews they got, they deserved.

You talk about business practises. Selling a game with game breaking bugs

is piss poor business practise and demonstrates utter contempt for the customer.

I hope they have learnt their lesson is all I can say. Judging by the expansions I bought they have seemed to.

It really cost them in sales.

I think there is a culture on this board where bugs are considered acceptable. Where dev's are congratualted for all the patches fixing them and that any who complain about them are squashed by the consensus here who talk of WIP and joining the bugtrackers or fixing it yourself etc.

I think this is a culture of complacency myself. I think it has cost BIS many a GOTY for ArmA 2. Which is a great shame. All that fabulous work let down by nothing more than a poor attitude.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Baff1

[Zipper5 74]

You just really like making stuff up, don't you? Cough up some proof. Provide a link to a review that says Arma 2's campaign, Harvest Red, was broken at release. If you link to Tiscali I think you might just get laughed at. Also provide a link that shows me Arma 2 suffered in terms of sales because of it.

We accept the bugs because we know BIS are dedicated to fixing them, which is very rare in the current gaming industry.

[Baff1 0]

.

My "loyalty" to BIS is hardly misplaced, they are the only developer which has remained PC exclusive .

Nonsense.

Men of War.

Civ.

Total War.

Relic

Blizzard.

Egosoft.

I too applaud BIS for remaining PC exclusive, but there are others too.

---------- Post added at 02:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 PM ----------

You just really like making stuff up, don't you? Cough up some proof. Provide a link to a review that says Arma 2's campaign, Harvest Red, was broken at release. If you link to Tiscali I think you might just get laughed at. Also provide a link that shows me Arma 2 suffered in terms of sales because of it.

We accept the bugs because we know BIS are dedicated to fixing them, which is very rare in the current gaming industry.

Eurogamers, review off the top of my head, described the game as a must play that is ultimately critically broken but still needed to be seen by all PC gamers or some such.

I think PC Gamer magasine was the other one I read although that may have been PC Format.

As for showing you a link that it lost sales. Show me a link that it didn't.

Bad (or rather worse than they could be) reviews cost you sales. You can't link to common sense.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Baff1

[Zipper5 74]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/arma-ii-review?page=1

"Awesome moments. This is real war. Give the AI a medal! The campaign - absolutely incredible! So atmospheric. Landscape almost real. I killed a rabbit! Thank you so much BIS. Heaps of bugs. Buy this game."

They mention bugs in the campaign, but they don't call it broken once, and then they end the review with that.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=217542

They don't even mention issues with the campaign in the above PC Gamer review. Heck, a member of PCG's staff is a big Arma 2 fan, Evan Lahti.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Zipper5

[Perforator 10]

We accept the bugs because we know BIS are dedicated to fixing them

And it's the reason BIS will continue getting my hard earned money. I purchased 2 copies of Operation Arrowhead, and that aint BS.

I didn't need 2 copies, it's just my own little way of saying thanks and showing some appreciation for their loyalty to the community.

[Zipper5 74]

As for showing you a link that it lost sales. Show me a link that it didn't.

Bad (or rather worse than they could be) reviews cost you sales. You can't link to common sense.

http://kotaku.com/5308790/pc-sales-charts-arma-ii-vs-the-sims

In the week of it's release, Arma 2 was number 2 (after Fallout 3) on Steam, and number 1 on Direct2Drive, beating games like The Sims 3.

http://www.actiontrip.com/rei/comments_news.phtml?id=071509_6

The following week it remained number 1 on Direct2Drive, and dropped to 4th on Steam.

Combine that with the inevitably high sales during their recent sales on Steam and Sprocket, as well as OA and then the DLC, I'd say BIS have made quite a bit off of the Arma 2 series.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Zipper5

[ben_s 11]

Scripting!

Well I must admit that not many people your age have an interest in learning scripting so I'll give you a high five for that.

I reckon a career in the gaming industry would suit you perfectly Ben.

lol, Did that 1 little fact completley change your views on me?

Yes, I know LUA, VB and (learning) C#

@topic,

Yeah, Dragon Rising failed after a while. But at no point was it "broken", ArmA II WAS broken upon release with numerous things not working like the campaign, but thank god patches fixed that, and thats the differnece between DR and ArmA, Support. Mod tools, editor support, patches, and extra things taken straight from the community. THATS What makes a game, a great game.

[Perforator 10]

lol, Did that 1 little fact completley change your views on me?.

Not entirely, I just have a soft spot for nerds.

Mod tools, editor support, patches, and extra things taken straight from the community. THATS What makes a game, a great game.

Codemasters really messed up by not releasing mod tools. I love testing out all the new mods made by the BIS community, keeps the game fresh.

[ben_s 11]

Yeah, Mods are really one thing that keep a game alive. If a game can be considered "a blank slate for the community to create ideas on", the game will always come out with a long life.

[Baff1 0]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/arma-ii-review?page=1

They mention bugs in the campaign, but they don't call it broken once, and then they end the review with that.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=217542

They don't even mention issues with the campaign in the above PC Gamer review. Heck, a member of PCG's staff is a big Arma 2 fan, Evan Lahti.

They might not, but I did.

And I'm a big ArmA 2 fan also. Loads of big ArmA 2 fans mentioned it. You need search no further than these very forums to find many more big ArmA 2 fans who have mentioned it.

You can be the worlds biggest ArmA 2 fan if you like, but the bugs were still there.

---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 PM ----------

http://kotaku.com/5308790/pc-sales-charts-arma-ii-vs-the-sims

In the week of it's release, Arma 2 was number 2 (after Fallout 3) on Steam, and number 1 on Direct2Drive, beating games like The Sims 3.

http://www.actiontrip.com/rei/comments_news.phtml?id=071509_6

The following week it remained number 1 on Direct2Drive, and dropped to 4th on Steam.

Combine that with the inevitably high sales during their recent sales on Steam and Sprocket, as well as OA and then the DLC, I'd say BIS have made quite a bit off of the Arma 2 series.

And you still don't think ArmA 2 would not have sold more if the reviews had not called it buggy?

If it had got an average review score of 85 not 77 or 95 not 77?

If that Youtube video with all the borko AI wasn't doing the rounds making the game a laughing stock.

Do you really need this spelt out to you?

If your game is buggy, it will get worse reviews.

If your game gets worse reviews it will sell less than if it gets better reviews.

You do not need to search Google to understand this. You do not need to link me to anything.

It is obvious.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Baff1

[dm 9]

If your game is buggy, it will get worse reviews.

[Cynic mode]

If you dont pay for your reviews, then your game will get worse reviews, regardless of how good/bad/buggy it is.

[/Cynic mode]

[froggyluv 2136]

Eurogamers, review off the top of my head, described the game as a must play that is ultimately critically broken but still needed to be seen by all PC gamers or some such.

They might not, but I did.

:rolleyes:

Sounds like it's time for you to also man up mate and accept your mistatement. The fact that you called out two reviews yourself, only to have your statements decimated by the actual fact check as well as the sales report...

[ricbar89 0]

You just really like making stuff up, don't you? Cough up some proof. Provide a link to a review that says Arma 2's campaign, Harvest Red, was broken at release. If you link to Tiscali I think you might just get laughed at. Also provide a link that shows me Arma 2 suffered in terms of sales because of it.

We accept the bugs because we know BIS are dedicated to fixing them, which is very rare in the current gaming industry.

Erm you dont need reviews, takes 30 seconds in search to find plenty of people saying the same thing...

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=77294&highlight=broken+campaign

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=74005&highlight=broken+campaign

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=83360&highlight=broken+campaign

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=81592&highlight=broken+campaign

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=83656&highlight=broken+campaign

And theres not many responses that seem to argue with it.

[Perforator 10]

Maybe I judged Red River too early, it looks better, far better, than what I expected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnSVf06zuhI

[jblackrupert 14]

Maybe I judged Red River too early, it looks better, far better, than what I expected.

How bout that background image. That has to be a placeholder image surely :butbut:

[froggyluv 2136]

No, Im pretty sure thats the in-game backround. They're going for dramatic stills me thinks.

[celery 8]

[ben_s 11]

Release is late April, by the way. 21st for Europe and Asia, 26th(?) for US.

And who re-opened this thread? I can't see it going well.

Whilst its open :

Like 20 seconds of uncut gameplay. Litteraly, 2 months before release..

There was a press day yesterday; So expect some more footage of the game soon. On another note; I did have a chat to Zarif over steam. He felt the game played well. But didn't say much else. :(

Edited February 25, 2011 by Ben_S

[Perforator 10]

A cool feature is the way enemy positions are relayed to your team with an appropriate delay of info as it is passed up the chain of command. Ai seemed to be much tighter with enemies diving for cover and performing flanking manoeuvres within intricately designed mud compounds offering infinite flanking and ambush potential. Ill post some more of my observations later as Im pressed for time. Im missing tajikistan already!

Just found this interesting comment posted over at the Codies forum by a guy that played Red River at Codies Press day.

[Zipper5 74]

BIS are better than Codemasters at making storylines and believable characters, it seems. I'm just waiting for a guy in a white suit and an African American woman to appear as the other two characters.

Besides, game still lacks a mission editor and won't have mod tools. There's no reason a non-Battlefield/HALO/Call of Duty game like that to be around for longer than a couple months these days.

[max power 21]

[imghttp://www.picdrop.net/images/redriver_vs_arma2.jpg[/img]

Are you implying that Red River is the real sequel to Dragon Rising, and not ArmA 2? Or are you saying that OFP 2 is not a real sequel? I think Dragon Rising had everything in your feature comparison except a real life location, and we all saw how that turned out. I don't know what GFWL is and I wonder why I should care about it.