Editor Unit-Loadout concept

[wamingo 1]

It has been probably 8+ years since a gear or loadout menu was first suggested and it has been asked for, ever since.

Is it time?

Here's what I think it could look like...

This is just one possibility! Better ones probably exist.

Feel free to change/add to the image.

Class names in this mockup are inaccurate.

The main reason for this style (over eg the ingame gear menu) is it's universal - meaning it would work for any type of unit: infantry, vehicle, ammo crate, etc.

Are you sceptical?

1. Automatic indexing of available gear

BIS item class names can be found on assorted wonderful sites like ofpec, armaholic, some of them even on the biki. But what about mods? Needing lists from all over is a bother.

A loadout editor could (should) most probably be able to index it it all for you, and be able to tell you exactly what magazines fits where.

2. Streamlining = Polish

Polish is what sells games and it is also what will make people use the editor. An addition such as the loadout editor could help a lot of people do something very basic that probably ought to be easy and intuitive.

discuss

[PuFu 4591]

while customizing gear is fairly easy done via scripts, i am all for such an editor upgrade.

It should be fairly easy implemented.

Unfortunatly, the one major step since OFP was the unfinished 3d editor that came with A2, but which remained untouched so far. I can't really see it happening to be honest, as i guess the editor upgrades are on the bottom of priority list for BIS atm for one reason or the other

[katipo66 94]

Should be at the top imho

[Toasticuss 10]

I am all for it!

Edited July 25, 2010 by Toasticuss

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I don't see any benefit here. Scripting/code is much faster to use (for experienced editors) than your proposed GUI, and while you can argue that it's only for novices, well at some point if they want to make more advanced scenarios they're going to have to learn how to do this stuff anyway.

Code has many more advantages than a GUI, and it's not at all difficult to learn the basic stuff like removing and adding weapons/magazines. It's simply not worth it for BIS, any way you look at it.

[Toasticuss 10]

I don't see any benefit here. Scripting/code is much faster to use (for experienced editors) than your proposed GUI, and while you can argue that it's only for novices, well at some point if they want to make more advanced scenarios they're going to have to learn how to do this stuff anyway.

Code has many more advantages than a GUI, and it's not at all difficult to learn the basic stuff like removing and adding weapons/magazines. It's simply not worth it for BIS, any way you look at it.

While I agree knowing how to do it with code is great, it can get tedious having to switch back and forth getting class names and typing in code when if you used his GUI everything would be one click, which would save a lot of time it looks like.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

one click, which would save a lot of time it looks like.

One click? It's not one click. It's a click for each weapon, each magazine (unless you have a "count" field where you can type in the number for each type), etc... I highly doubt it will increase your workflow.

In my experience, typing is a lot faster than clicking. Classnames are easy to remember, the naming conventions make plenty of sense (except when mods mess them up). Also, the editor will remember classnames you recently used, so that further expediates things (you can use tab to autocomplete, so much faster than navigating through menus).

[mr burns 131]

Get´s my vote!

Something between Ghost Recon & Lock:On loadout selectors would do just fine.

[katipo66 94]

One click? It's not one click. It's a click for each weapon, each magazine (unless you have a "count" field where you can type in the number for each type), etc... I highly doubt it will increase your workflow.

In my experience, typing is a lot faster than clicking. Classnames are easy to remember, the naming conventions make plenty of sense (except when mods mess them up). Also, the editor will remember classnames you recently used, so that further expediates things (you can use tab to autocomplete, so much faster than navigating through menus).

Because you can code/script and remember class names doesn't mean that its easy for everyone else to learn...

It would be great to be able to customize some things from the GUI for those that, just dont want to learn a coding language, dont have the time, or actually do find coding/scripting difficult...

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Similar idea that have some support:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/10729

My idea of an improved unit editor/placer that goes beyond loadout only:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/10757

Deals with some highly common things to do on editor placed units to simplify or eliminate the need for scripting, especially suited for the newcomers. It's not "perfect" since I'm staying within the paradigm of the current editor and just expanding on the idea. A "whole new system" can tend to get better, but the "idea" in OP is very badly laid on the table. I.e. where does the text "30x5.56" come from? It's not in the config in this form. And consider how addon makers may not use the vanilla format, it would be impossible to know how to "derive" this short format.

Although it is nice for an editor upgrade to choose loadout items, it's really not that useful doing it this way. You're limited to "doing" one unit at a time (multi selection would be nice, but it will not happen in a long time if ever), and you can not see what another unit have to compare with. For "serious loadouts" I always resort to scripting even if it does take a considerable amount of time to do - not for the scripting itself, but all the gameplay wise considerations that goes into it.

[katipo66 94]

^^ Nice...

Ive always seen the editor as the real game, with campaign included... i dont understand why this great piece of software isn't given more priority?

[NoRailgunner 0]

+ for userfriendly editing and interface design we're now in 2010 not in the 80's or 90's :p

+ include customizable gear/backpack templates

[wamingo 1]

"Not worth it" ?

Compared to what?

Since forever have some people been kicking and screaming: Don't do this! don't do that! BIS have better things to worry about!

- Typically wanting BIS to prioritise simulator-related stuff like AI and Damage Models and such.

If you're part of this crowd, then I believe you are a part of a tiny, albeit loud, minority.

The overwhelming Majority however, really only care for one thing: Overall polish.

They give a flying fart about speed or other advantages of style, they want the ability to do it without having to resort to forums and other complex documentation (which affects speed, y'know?). It shouldn't just be possible to do it, it should EASY to do.

And it should Look good when doing it! It should Feel good, be Accessible, still Functional yet Easy. Hard edges should be smoothened. Basic things should be streamlined. Every stone should be turned and meassured.

I contend, that is what people will pay money for, and that is what will make them use the editor - rather than skip it.

Besides, we'll still have the init field to copy and paste in.

The "GENERATED CODE" field, in the mockup, would be copyable as well, preferably.

So yes, I think it would be worth it. It wouldn't be an overly complex thing to do, and it would benefit a lot of people - probably You included.

Carl, I wrote specifically that classnames in the mockup were inaccurate - I don't care about shortform.

By the way, I'm sure you can tell, that I used your idea for inspiration. ;)

NoRailGunner, I agree templates might be cool - just have to be wary that some soldiers have less inventory than others. Perhaps a red number when out of bounds would suffice?

ie if you add 2x M16, it could go red.

[kylania 567]

ArmA Edit has a Unit Wizard that does this kind of thing.

[Otterbear 10]

It has been probably 8+ years since a gear or loadout menu was first suggested and it has been asked for, ever since.

Is it time?

Here's what I think it could look like...

This is just one possibility! Better ones probably exist.

Feel free to change/add to the image.

Class names in this mockup are inaccurate.

The main reason for this style (over eg the ingame gear menu) is it's universal - meaning it would work for any type of unit: infantry, vehicle, ammo crate, etc.

Are you sceptical?

1. Automatic indexing of available gear

BIS item class names can be found on assorted wonderful sites like ofpec, armaholic, some of them even on the biki. But what about mods? Needing lists from all over is a bother.

A loadout editor could (should) most probably be able to index it it all for you, and be able to tell you exactly what magazines fits where.

2. Streamlining = Polish

Polish is what sells games and it is also what will make people use the editor. An addition such as the loadout editor could help a lot of people do something very basic that probably ought to be easy and intuitive.

discuss

Obviously a bit basic, but I TOTALLY agree. The editor, and possibly other areas of the game SHOULD HAVE an area that allows you to personalize you load-out and those of your squad mates. I understand that Picking a TYPE of individual solider helps, but I always end up lacking vital/important gear, such as a laser designator, or binoculars and other such equipment. I have no desire to learn a new programing language just to switch gear!:rolleyes:

I have been playing this game for about a month now, and reading post till my eyes cross, and STILL cant figure out how to place a weapons crate on the ground to change load-outs/weapons at my base.

I'm fairly hopeful that BIS is working on this.

Dealing with all the various mods and their setups may be another whole ball of string to deal with but, it COULD be done.

[Macadam Cow 1]

Damn it would be awesome, that's the kind of thing I'd like to see incorporate before any new units.

[Von_Lipwig 10]

Definitely a good idea, and I would endorse Carlgustaffa's second (and first ;) ) ideas he posted on Devheaven as well. It would make editing so much easier, especially for newcomers but also for more intermediate users.

Saying it is not worth it and unnecessary because people can do it 'easily' now too seems strange to me. The editor is NOT intuitive for novice users. I loved that advertisement video that BIS made showcasing how easy the editor was to use, showing all kinds of lists and classnames in the second video that 'we will not show you HOW to do it just now, all that matters is that you know they are there'. :P Talk about frustration!

It would make the editor much easier to get into if some aspects of it were streamlined. Of course a fully functional 3d editor that can export missions to MP is high on the wish-list but for now a streamlined and polished 2d editor is more than we can wish for, and this would be a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.

[upredictable 10]

I approve this idea !!!

[Otterbear 10]

I also concur with all of CarlGustaffa's suggestions.

I registered to vote for them, but something is amiss with my setup or something as I cannot log on at the moment.

It is important that we keep the "New" player in mind.

Firstly they are the ones who BUY the game, and as has been mentioned before, will quickly loose interest when they realize that its not a Game but a new language that they will be learning. Lets face it; the game isn't that hard after a little practice.

Adding in more modules and an intuitive interface; as suggested, would make this much easier for newcomers and INCREASE the desire to learn more about the incredible flexibility of this game.

The improved editor scripting sections would also solve a tremendous amount of headaches for me.

[Flash Thunder 10]

I made a Ticket on DevHeaven.net about this concept

Easy to use Weapon Loadouts

Not everyone wants to spend 30 minutes setting up the code for everyone.

I was hoping for this with OA or a DLC.

I mean how hard could it be to make it, this kind of Polish is whats expected from people now. I learned the script myself but most people wont and they will come on here and bitch and then the vets on here will give them the usual

Learn to script

One feature I truely believe would be significant BIS.

Heres the Link Please VOTE UP if you haven't already.

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/10729

Further note: If you read BigDawgKS comment on the ticket he does have a good point, both options should be available scriptless interface for choosing the gear similar to Dragon Risings Weapon loadout UI, and the current setup of using Classname functions in the Init line.

Both have their own benefits and shortcomings.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Flash Thunder

[enad 11]

I would love this. Would make giving units different weapons MUCH easier and MUCH less time consuming.

[Nutlink 10]

Love it. I can't remember class names for the life of me, and I use the editor a fair amount. Most of my scenarios are basic, but this would definitely be a step up from taking the lazy mans way out and just placing various ammo boxes at the spawn point.

[jgbtl292 0]

i vote it.

and the same for copters and planes ;)

[nikita320106 0]

voited up +1

[Gunter Severloh 3950]

I'm all for it, it would add to the already versatile editor, and improve one's ability to create more refined missions,

and possibly quicker.