Large Number of AI and heavy firefight, physic simulation and game engine limitation?

Can the developer comment on this? I am really running out of ideas on how to make this game "playable" in scenarios involving large number of AIs and heavy firefights. With around 50 to 100 AIs and all settings at ultra and 5KM view distance, my PC is able to muster at least 50 FPS. If I double or triple the number of AIs and a firefight begins, everything slows to a crawl to less than 20 FPS no matter what graphics settings and view distance.

This seems like the engine is struggling to cope with the large number of bullets and ballistics simulation? Is there anything I can do to improve this?

AI, ballistics simulation PhysX, that is all computed on the CPU. Viewdistance also has a heavy hit on the CPU, so you might want to lower that if you really must have such large scale firefights. Or try to Overclock. You must understand that even powerfull PCs hit a limit if you put enough AI on the Map.

Get a faster/better CPU, otherwise you could reduce object/terrain quality or VD, that would take some of the load off of the CPU. I mean, 5KM VD is massive, especially with the higher object quality settings. Do note that you're not expected to be able to run Ultra settings (and 5km is ultra as it gets) in this game with hundreds of AI. Until the devs rewrite the engine to make AI run in parallel on multiple cores, you're stuck.

As you increase the number of AI, you increase the amount of computation required on the main thread running on its single core, and this thread is the limiting factor for FPS for most players (and for you in this scenario, clearly). The longer this thread takes each frame, the slower the frame, because this is the bottleneck for your system. Reducing IQ or VD will help because this same thread also handles draw calls, which are decreased with decreasing scene geometry (lowered object/terrain IQ and VD).

I don't know why you need more than 100 active AI, but if that's what you want, well, that's the deal. Drop your settings, drop the number of AI, or drop some money on a high-end overclocked processor.

He's already using a 3970x according to his sig. Anyway, clock it further than 4.2 :P

Arma can't be maxed, and yeah, 100 v 100 fights can be problematic, like in any game, although it runs a lot better now than a few months ago.

Can the developer comment on this?

Oh you!

related link: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?147533-Low-CPU-utilization-amp-Low-FPS

Thanks for the feedback and I am disappointed to see that the AIs are all calculate on one thread. My CPU is already top of the line and as a matter of fact my entire system is built to run Arma 3 as smooth as possible. I tried running the CPU at 5 Ghz but the improvement is minimal at sub 35 FPS and decided to tune down the overclock as the heat and extra voltage will affect the longevity of the chip.

Get a faster/better CPU, otherwise you could reduce object/terrain quality or VD, that would take some of the load off of the CPU. I mean, 5KM VD is massive, especially with the higher object quality settings. Do note that you're not expected to be able to run Ultra settings (and 5km is ultra as it gets) in this game with hundreds of AI. Until the devs rewrite the engine to make AI run in parallel on multiple cores, you're stuck.

As you increase the number of AI, you increase the amount of computation required on the main thread running on its single core, and this thread is the limiting factor for FPS for most players (and for you in this scenario, clearly). The longer this thread takes each frame, the slower the frame, because this is the bottleneck for your system. Reducing IQ or VD will help because this same thread also handles draw calls, which are decreased with decreasing scene geometry (lowered object/terrain IQ and VD).

I don't know why you need more than 100 active AI, but if that's what you want, well, that's the deal. Drop your settings, drop the number of AI, or drop some money on a high-end overclocked processor.

Oh, you can also play the mission in MP, host it on a dedi server, then play it by yourself. Not sure if this is for SP, but that will load the AI off onto a separate core/thread.

500m View distance makes me run this game on MAX settings with 40+ FPS.....feels very stupid that Bohemia even included a option to increase it to 12000meters

is there a description how to set up this dedicated server?

Oh, you can also play the mission in MP, host it on a dedi server, then play it by yourself. Not sure if this is for SP, but that will load the AI off onto a separate core/thread.

yea try that. i have yet to tr that myself but it should help.

Check servers subforum or the wiki. I'm sure it's somewhere around here...

500m View distance makes me run this game on MAX settings with 40+ FPS.....feels very stupid that Bohemia even included a option to increase it to 12000meters

Yeah, because computer performance haven't stepped up very much since e.g. Arma 2 was released in 2009, and nobody plays THAT game anymore :)

Sorry, you're probably new to the series. You'll see that you're still gonna play this game when you've upgraded your rig twice or more. By then you will ask why BIS was stupid enough to limit the viewdistance to 12000 m...

I am going to try the dedicated server approach and see how it works. I have a i7-980X box sitting unused and it will do great as an Arma 3 server!

is there a description how to set up this dedicated server?

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?147537-Tutorial-How-to-run-ArmA3-on-a-dedicated-server

I don't know why you need more than 100 active AI, but if that's what you want, well, that's the deal. Drop your settings, drop the number of AI, or drop some money on a high-end overclocked processor.

I and others want more AI because of the expansive map and unlimited freedom for movement! That is the whole point of the game to simulate large scale war as accurately as possible. I hope the dedicated server route will be improve things!

I just played the same mission via dedicated server and there is a minor improvement. Although on the dedicated server, only one CPU core is maxed out and the rest is idle @_@

I don't know why you need more than 100 active AI, but if that's what you want, well, that's the deal. Drop your settings, drop the number of AI, or drop some money on a high-end overclocked processor.

That is the whole point of the game to simulate large scale war as accurately as possible

Ultimative Military Simulation

"Unique and comprehensive AI combat system for large-scale battles"

I've been reading articles and guides on how to increase the CPU core usage on the server side without luck :( Flags such as -cpuCount=6 -exThreads=7 doesn't seem to help...

I guess i have to buy another copy of Arma and try the headless client route...

Yeah, because computer performance haven't stepped up very much since e.g. Arma 2 was released in 2009, and nobody plays THAT game anymore :)

Sorry, you're probably new to the series. You'll see that you're still gonna play this game when you've upgraded your rig twice or more. By then you will ask why BIS was stupid enough to limit the viewdistance to 12000 m...

haha, even todays computers, 4-5 years down the line, can't run ArmA 2 close to it's maximum settings, although you're right, better to be there, just in case. :)

yea try that. i have yet to tr that myself but it should help.

I've actually tried that, hosting a local dedicated and connecting and playing a mission as a client on the same PC and get worse performance generally than just playing the mission normally.

I've been reading articles and guides on how to increase the CPU core usage on the server side without luck :( Flags such as -cpuCount=6 -exThreads=7 doesn't seem to help...

I guess i have to buy another copy of Arma and try the headless client route...

The game engine code isn't that multi threaded, you can't make it so with just some flags. ;)

In early Arma 2 it was possible to have LOTS (thousands) of AI idling or in combat but imo that number started to decline with patches.

The AI is definitely better in Arma3, but it does not justify a ~80% performance reduction.

Just loaded up good ol Arma 2 OA (latest) and had a 288 men battle in Chernogorsk >20 FPS. On Altis a 60 men battle equals <20 FPS.

I've actually tried that, hosting a local dedicated and connecting and playing a mission as a client on the same PC and get worse performance generally than just playing the mission normally.

Are you hosting both the dedicated server and playing the game on the same box?

Are you hosting both the dedicated server and playing the game on the same box?

Yes, I thought that was the point considering your average user doesn't have a spare system to run as a server to make up for the shortcomings in the game...

Yes, I thought that was the point considering your average user doesn't have a spare system to run as a server to make up for the shortcomings in the game...

I think running dedicated server + headless client and playing the game on the same box will further decrease the performance as your CPU and IO system are taxed with multiple tasks. What I am trying to do is to push this game to the extreme and hence running the server and headless client on a separate box.