Please make the at4 ammo only take 0-2 slots in the inventory.

[Drumheller 19]

Why does the at-4, which doesn't even really have ammo(it's pre-packed in the launcher) take 6 slots for the round while the SMAW and MAAWS rounds only take 2 slots each?

Please make the at-4 round take between 0 and 2 slots of inventory space and be destroyed after one shot to be more consistent if possible with the next update.

[Crierd 24]

ACE II has already done this but yeah, it's such a crappy launcher unless your up close and personal so why make it use SO MANY ammo slots.

[MavericK96 0]

Maybe they did it primarily as a weight thing? So you couldn't carry an AT4 and then a ton of ammo/satchels/whatever in addition.

Not that it makes sense overall, but this is my guess.

[Militant1006 11]

They have made the AT-4 disposable in ACE and it only takes up the lancher slot, which makes it a good choice for a lightweight punch, but on vanilla ArmA 2 and OA, it is really annoying because it takes up as much room as a Javelin!!!

It is ridiculous that they expect anyone to use it, i personally would rather use a SMAW or MAAWS because its somehow more lightweight than the AT-4

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Yeah, except in more realistic missions you can forget about everyone getting any MAAWS/SMAW. As long as the AT4 remains reloadable, it has to use the rather bad 6 slot ammo system. In the mission I'm working on I have only one MAAWS gunner (in the "support team") and one Javelin gunner and machinegunner (both in the weapons team) - all of these also have an assistant with additional ammo. The MAAWS gunner and his assistant will quickly develop a big "target" sign over their heads, and demands pretty good players to stay in the game.

But, these "specialist weapons" are fairly easy to control flow over. The M136 is different - you'd want reasonably good access to it in case the MAAWS/Javelin gunner slots are not in play. Not having them in play should make the mission harder and more inconvenient, but not impossible. At the same time you want to prevent them from becoming "high level tank killers" by letting everyone grab 3-5 "rounds" (irl, would be tubes - impossible to carry and fight with).

By having it 6 slots, it becomes the players choosing - how badly do you want to kill that vehicle, or would it be wiser to let somebody better suited for it do the job? Not many wants to haul along a bloody tube, it's just "in the way", you bring it along because you have to. If there was no penalty for carrying it, everybody would carry one if they could (pluss "endless" ammo), at which point I could just remove the MAAWS and Javelin gunner slots completely as they would be out of a job.

If the tube becomes a true one shot system (like in ACE, where it cannot be reloaded), then I would not object to having 1 or 0 slot ammo. MAAWS/SMAW/Javelin are specialist weapons (MAAWS to a lesser degree than SMAW, I know, but...), AT4 is "for everyone" and typically in rather good supply.

But one cannot allow AT4s to completely take over the bigger guns role (like it did in Arma1). It was a nightmare trying to fight this exploit at the time. Maybe the "solutions" I came up with are more stable now, and may even work with AI - who knows. I don't have to fight it anymore :)

Edited July 21, 2010 by CarlGustaffa

[ryguy 10]

As long as the AT4 remains reloadable, it has to use the rather bad 6 slot ammo system.

That's the thing. It shouldn't be reloadable at all.

[Militant1006 11]

That's the thing. It shouldn't be reloadable at all.

Yep, ACE nailed the AT-4 and i loved it, because it gave me some light AT capability without it taking over half of my inventory, but still BIS has not seen the proper solution to this problem, as i was saying it is rediculous that it takes up as much room as a Javelin, but is far, far less effective at AT roles, compared to the MAAWS or SMAW, which somehow for the same inventory space you take take 3, more effective rockets, and who doesnt want this advantage?

I usually play domination games which lets you pretty much take any weapon you want, which means that everyone is either using the SMAW or MAAWS, in fact i havent seen one person online using the AT-4 yet, which says everything.

[Sekra 10]

Before turning into ACE, just search for the source of the addon; INKO Disposable - http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=84701 I am not sure if it will work with OA but shouldnt be too hard to convert either.

[HyperU2 11]

ACE has it pretty much perfect. Fire it and drop it. The only thing I'd change about the ACE version is to make selecting the AT4, and readying it to fire one action.

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

1: Take it of your back

2: Ready Front handle

3: Ready Sights

4: Arm

1 action is NOT realistic...

[HyperU2 11]

I didn't mean it should be faster, I just meant it should be one control. Once I start by taking it off my back the rest should be automatic.

[MavericK96 0]

Yeah, having to "(re)load" the launcher in ACE is sort of weird.

[avengerzx 10]

BIS Should put the disposable AT-4 and RPG-18 in the official patches!

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Come on guys, stop talking about ACE. They have it IN their mod, but they didn't create the damn thing. It was originally INKO Disposable, and I believe the same guy or somebody else made the same addon for ArmA 1.

If it can be done with INKO, then BI could probably have it working like that in a day, a week tops.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

@MavericK96: You don't reload the weapon, you ready it to fire.

[nkenny 1057]

M136 should ideally take up 4-6 Slots and NOT occupy the Launcher/backpack slot.

Yeah, thats right. Function exactly like grenades.

1. Not unlike grenades light AT weapons like these are a stopgap measure when the patrol is facing light armour. This permits teams to spread light-at capacity amongst all members.

2. To carry a M136/RPG18 should be a choice of some consequence. Its heavy and cumbersome (illustrated by taking many slots) but does not stop you from carrying a backpack, thus carrying a lightAT is not a pointless exercise that detracts from your ability to support the team. (carrying ammo, satchels, whatnot, or just shooting)

3. Unique gameplay element. Weapon is functionally and conceptually different from traditional launchers like RPG7, SMAW, and CG.

-k

(Also while mucking about with equipment sizes make 100 rounds of 7.62x51mm Nato take up 3 slots. That stuff is insanely powerful.)

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

The AT4 is not something that should take that many slots.

Like ive said in other threads, i could carry 2 of them plus main

weapon + additional ammo + rucksack...Have you guys EVER

tried IRL?? I have and done so alot of times...

No if you are concerned about all the Rambos ingame, please make the

mission MORE realistic. Like rank the gear and equipment or maybe LOCK

to certain possisions in squad..Like MG gunner can carry MG´s and their

respective ammo...But dont hamper the entire game.

[Murklor 10]

2. To carry a M136/RPG18 should be a choice of some consequence. Its heavy and cumbersome (illustrated by taking many slots) but does not stop you from carrying a backpack, thus carrying a lightAT is not a pointless exercise that detracts from your ability to support the team. (carrying ammo, satchels, whatnot, or just shooting)

But its not heavy and cumbersome. That's sort of the issue here. Its like 7kg - lighter than the sniper rifles people are so fond of dual wielding with MAAWS.

These launchers should be one-shot disposables that do not take up any inventory space other than the weapon slot. Choice of some consequence? Yes, it already is. You cant carry a backpack for example. You cant carry it with heavy MGs. You can carry it with light machineguns and heavy sniper rifles for reasons unknown to me.

The fact that BIS continue to purposly ignore this weapon is completely baffling and very, very disappointing.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

@Murklor: AT4 is not heavy, but it is cumbersome. But that cumbersomeness is not reflected in any ways in the game.

@Andersson[sWEC]: Ranking gear is realism to you? Won't happen in my missions anyway. If you sign up for a job (by taking a slot), you get the gear associated with that slot, period. Most gear are specific to role, but in order for the lonely lurker waiting for company actually do something rather than sit and wait, AT4s have to be made quite accessible. At the same time you want to prevent them doing the big guns work. I've never been hampered by it at all when I'm carrying the AT4. If I run out of rifle ammo, I can usually get some from someone else. Teamwork goes both ways...

@NkEnNy: I would agree with the 3 slot MG ammo if the machinegunner was able to carry a backpack. Currently when I'm machinegunner I can carry 400 rounds and some extra stash I need. 300 rounds and less stash would be devastating. At the same time; team up with an assistant (with backpack), and your firepower goes beyond extreme. Even more evidently with a MAAWS team.

Like I've suggested in the past:

100rnd MG - 2 slots

200rnd M249 - 3 slots

100rnd M249 - 2 slots

AT4 - 0 slot disposable or 5-6 slot reload (disposable preferred obviously)

SMAW - 4 slots (these packed tubes are quite long)

MAAWS - 3 slots (shorter than the SMAW)

PG-7VR - 4 slots

PG-7** - 3 slots (all the rest of them)

Missiles - 5-6 slots

Satchels - 3 slots (these bags are quite big, but we also need smaller explosives with less yield)

Learn to stow stuff in your vehicle, particularly things like AT4s which is basically for everyone to use. The six slots combined with no backpack is a good hit, but I've never gotten myself into trouble for carrying one.

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

@Murklor: AT4 is not heavy, but it is cumbersome. But that cumbersomeness is not reflected in any ways in the game.

@Andersson[sWEC]: Ranking gear is realism to you? Won't happen in my missions anyway. If you sign up for a job (by taking a slot), you get the gear associated with that slot, period. Most gear are specific to role, but in order for the lonely lurker waiting for company actually do something rather than sit and wait, AT4s have to be made quite accessible. At the same time you want to prevent them doing the big guns work. I've never been hampered by it at all when I'm carrying the AT4. If I run out of rifle ammo, I can usually get some from someone else. Teamwork goes both ways...

@NkEnNy: I would agree with the 3 slot MG ammo if the machinegunner was able to carry a backpack. Currently when I'm machinegunner I can carry 400 rounds and some extra stash I need. 300 rounds and less stash would be devastating. At the same time; team up with an assistant (with backpack), and your firepower goes beyond extreme. Even more evidently with a MAAWS team.

Like I've suggested in the past:

100rnd MG - 2 slots

200rnd M249 - 3 slots

100rnd M249 - 2 slots

AT4 - 0 slot disposable or 5-6 slot reload (disposable preferred obviously)

SMAW - 4 slots (these packed tubes are quite long)

MAAWS - 3 slots (shorter than the SMAW)

PG-7VR - 4 slots

PG-7** - 3 slots (all the rest of them)

Missiles - 5-6 slots

Satchels - 3 slots (these bags are quite big, but we also need smaller explosives with less yield)

Learn to stow stuff in your vehicle, particularly things like AT4s which is basically for everyone to use. The six slots combined with no backpack is a good hit, but I've never gotten myself into trouble for carrying one.

You are missing the point..

ACE is about realism. If you want your missions carried out realistic

you need ppl that can do as ORDERD. Leadership and CHAIN OF COMMAND,

A2, OA, OA comb is what i would call a advanced Shooter, what ace does

is adding realism. With weight and size considderd i think they are doing

a GREAT job. Talking about SLOTS is what you do in like BF or other

shooter games. This is hopefully NOT going in that direction. Cause if it

does ill stop playing...

OFP to present day OA Combined is a SIMULATOR with HUGE potential.

And if they start nerfing the possibillitys, my hopes and dreams for this

game is gone..

[7 0]

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/1876

Get in there and vote people!

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Where did I mention ACE? And where do you find "order" on the public scene? You want to turn the game into closed community only. I don't, and CoC doesn't exist on the public games and it probably never will. Hence I as mission designer am the top commander - I present the rules of how to play and what equipment is available. ACE is good. No, very good. But I haven't touched it yet for OA due to a certain exploit they know is present but hard to fix, and I'm aware a lot of thoughts back and forth has gone into it. So go play ACE with your closed CoC community where everything is under control, and let me make exploit free (afaik) missions for the public using vanilla game where I'm still able to be in control.

ACE have weight and "size". Vanilla doesn't, it uses slots alone. Live with it, it should be obvious that this change won't happen.

It's easy to script addon functionality. Just check out Domination. Would you want all these features in vanilla game? I sure hope not. I finally made "one shot launcher" capability in Arma1 in my mission there (in order to prevent the M136 exploit, and ACE suffered the same problems I was having), and got to hear a lot of things because "I broke the game" by not allowing (stupid) things the game allowed. I and was able to do so without resorting to addons (which is a big point when making things for the public scene).

Talking about SLOTS is what you do in like BF or other shooter games.

SLOTS is what we've got! Deal with it.

Edit: And keep in mind, BIS official standpoint is that they don't do "scripted solutions".

@NkEnNy: You're forgetting that simulation "rocket" or "shell" (not sure) is for human players limited to the launcher slot. So your suggestion wouldn't work for engine limitations alone.

Edited July 21, 2010 by CarlGustaffa

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

When i say Chain of Command i dont mean the mod..

I mean ACTING in the chain of command WITH PPL..

Like, Officers, Leaders, and grunts.

And i hardly play Vanilla. Verry verry rare...

In a dreamscenario for the Avatar in game should be

like in real life...NOT slots but pockets, pouches, bags, rucksacks.

And accordingly, weight and size should be what determin what

you can put in them. A normal disposable weapon should be so ingame

asweel. i just saw a docu on S.A.S units and i have to say, sure we dont

do trecks and mission in a 4 man squad for 28dyas. But the gear they

carry and put in their personal Bergans and uniform and Belts are like

what we can take in a 12man squad ingame..You say exploits a say

possibillitys.

EDIT: And personally i dont like missions that dictates what im supposed

to be able to use, were to go and what to do.

1: This is the mission

2: These are your units

3: This is the avaliable gear

Plan your execution and Move out..

Thats what i do in DOMI..

Is it day i dont need NV

What goal do i gave for this town.

1: Blow up the tower..

a: main weapon + add ammo

b: satchels

Thats it. I dont gear up like a 28day mission.

Some do i know..Those are the rambos that play alone.

But id rather play a mission were the players get together

on a common goal and TALKS about it..Not just rushing to

the crate and stuff them full and start complaining about

the fatigue and weight.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Andersson[SWEC]

[NoRailgunner 0]

Would say that BIS would change it if they were playing more. ;)

my suggestion:

M136*/RPG18*/PG7VL/PG7V/PG7-OG using 3 slots

SMAW/MAAWS/PG7VR using 4 slots

Javelin/Metis/M47 Dragon using 6 slots

*single-shot weapons should stay one-shot weapons.

[Pain0815 10]

The at4 is for ssingle use and more than 1 round in your inventory would be unrealistic.

Ace got that right and the bigger 6 slot ammosize from arma is the BIS way to make sure that noone reloads his at4.

2 ways same effect. ACE got it much better solved but 2-3 slot ammo for the launcher would be more unrealistic as the 6 slot one.