Player Movement Lag & Animation Stutter|Something for BIS Devs too!

[megagoth1702 252]

Hello guys!

I noticed that ARMA2 handles Multiplayer a bit differently from arcade games like Counter Strike or Battlefield/Battlefield BC2.

In those arcady games the "empty spots" between the data-packages which contain player data (direction of movement/looking, speed, weapon etc) a server recieves from the client to send them to the others are filled with "estimated position" placeholders to keep the movement and the animations fluid.

In Counter Strike Source it was called "interpolating" and you could turn it off to get kills easier due to less hitbox-problems.

When shooting moving enemies in ARMA2 people use to put a lot of bullets in his general area of movement to make sure that one bullet hits and due to this there could'n be any problems because of that. Most engagements are against still standing targets anyway.

Arma 2 does not seem to interpolate. Arma2 seems to transmit RAW simple data to the server and this is why players move in tiny-stutter-steps and the animations are played at a slower speed than usual.

VIDEO ABOUT ANIMATION-SPEED

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Isn't there any way we could get rid of these slow animations? Are there problems engine-side? It just does not look good and kills some of the immersion. If my footsteps are waaay faster and more real than the other guys' ones the whole thing does not feel right.

I would really love if a BIS dev would reply to this, what he thinks of my thought and if this would be possible in any way.

Yes, there are other more important areas to be fixed but we are in 2010 by now and it's better to do such stuff now instead of too late.

No hard feelings, with all respect,

Mega

Edited July 25, 2010 by megagoth1702

[whisper 0]

I think there is interpolation in A2

Thing is, server is very often more loaded due to AI calculation and such, and larger fights area making for larger scan and workload of the server in general.

From what I've seen, server first do its "router" job, ie, receives updates from clients and forward them, then does its AI job and such, making AI more prone to warping than players.

Though it doesn't seem to be strict priority, and you will see from times to times player warping, because server is too busy to send updates, doing smtg else, like handling new payer connection, and such.... If you always see warping, server has an issue, too low CPU, bad mission design/scripting, things like that

[rundll.exe 12]

whisper is in the right direction, warping is closely related to the server FPS, but ofc also to the available bandwidth and the configuration settings

use "#monitor 60" to monitor your server fps. If it goes below 15, you can bet you will get problems with warping and AI pathfinding. Around 5, and it will become a weird experience sometimes :D

[megagoth1702 252]

Thank you for your reply, I understand that arma servers are busy.

This does not explain why the animations are played at half speed or so.

Also I tried a simple mission with a friend of mine, 1 on 1 so to speak and he still warped through the environment, tiiiiny tiny warps, but they were there. Turning movements also show that there is no interpolation, turns sometimes are like 180° in no time, instead of interpolating a smooth turn.

If any BIS dev reads this, please let someone explain what exactly goes on there and how we can help solve this (if this is of any interest for the community, I think I'll add a poll).

EDIT: server FPS lol... :/ I guess all we need are 4 cores running at 4-4.5 GHz, 4GB of ram and a crappy videocard, right? Maybe not even 4 cores because the server only has to handle movement and script data, or does he have to render all the geometry as well/load it from HDD?

How do you use a console ingame to type in that monitor server FPS command?

Thank you very much in advance!

Edited July 14, 2010 by megagoth1702

[Dwarden 1125]

server does the full sandbox simulation ...

[megagoth1702 252]

Thank you for your response, Dwarden!

Poor servers, jesus christ, handling all the AI all over the map!? Woaah...

What about the animations? Why are they played at slower speed when playing online? I played a SP mission today and it felt much better with my AI buddies running with me.

Edited July 15, 2010 by megagoth1702

[megagoth1702 252]

Bump, I am really interested in this!

[tacticalnuggets 24]

The problem is the multiplayer code in arma2 is very old and often overloaded with the amazing amount of game content that is streaming between the client and server. If I recall, arma2 also uses udp handshaking still? Anyway, a combination of these things makes arma2 an overloaded game in multiplayer causing lag, stuttering, and frame rate problems. And if you run a big mission, all these things get amplified.

Infact, the primary reason for not having body physics in arma2 is not because your cpu cant handle it (although, it would be a lot more load), but mostly because the multiplayer environment can not handle it. Many of the developments from ofp to arma2 have been unevenly distributed, so things such as multiplayer are very under-developed. Just now are they getting to it, as i have heard, and am very excited for, mod management and downloading solutions. Its better late than never.

[megagoth1702 252]

Tactical, thank you very much! That was informative!

What is udp-handshaking and how does it affect arma2?

[n00b1 10]

I have noticed this severely affecting hit registration (or is that a seperate issue?) I engaged a stationary enemy at exactly 600m with the M110 (elevation set correctly) and hit several times, but he didn't die. He then proceeded to teleport about a bit to another location.

[Dwarden 1125]

Thank you for your response, Dwarden!

Poor servers, jesus christ, handling all the AI all over the map!? Woaah...

What about the animations? Why are they played at slower speed when playing online? I played a SP mission today and it felt much better with my AI buddies running with me.

not all AI

these which are in player group (where player is leader) are calculated on his client

[megagoth1702 252]

Ah, now I understand... I thought so. Thank you!

Any word about the anmations...?

[whisper 0]

Thank you for your reply, I understand that arma servers are busy.

This does not explain why the animations are played at half speed or so.

Also I tried a simple mission with a friend of mine, 1 on 1 so to speak and he still warped through the environment, tiiiiny tiny warps, but they were there. Turning movements also show that there is no interpolation, turns sometimes are like 180° in no time, instead of interpolating a smooth turn.

Doesn't prove much. Interpolation can't make everything smooth magically if it has not the correct information in time. Ie, if not receiving enough precise info, even with interpolation, you'll see warps.

If any BIS dev reads this, please let someone explain what exactly goes on there and how we can help solve this (if this is of any interest for the community, I think I'll add a poll).

EDIT: server FPS lol... :/ I guess all we need are 4 cores running at 4-4.5 GHz, 4GB of ram and a crappy videocard, right? Maybe not even 4 cores because the server only has to handle movement and script data, or does he have to render all the geometry as well/load it from HDD?

How do you use a console ingame to type in that monitor server FPS command?

Thank you very much in advance!

FPS server-side is simply the number of complete game calculation cycle per second, calculation that doesn't include anything related to drawing the scene, ofc, on the server.

Though the server has to load geometry information to handle to whole physics / damage model, these informations ("hittable model", points of contact with ground, visibility occlusion for AI, etc...) are included with the 3D model files, in fact the 3D and textures visible by players is only a part of the whole 3D file for a given model

[megagoth1702 252]

Thanks for the response! I understand how the server works now.

Does anyone have anything to say about the animation-speed? Why it is not "normal" anmation but slower?

[megagoth1702 252]

Bump, since interesting.

[squeeze 22]

agree with everything you say megagoth except this "Yes, there are other more important areas to be fixed"

I'd like to know if VBS2 has this problem, imagine a real sniper training for some mission, he's got his sights on someone 500 meters away and they start to teleport around.

server does the full sandbox simulation ... fair enough....hows this sound, client predicts next 30 frames of animation that seem to be missing or we are working on a fix.

cheeers

[Defunkt 431]

This should be stickied right next to the "Who likes free beer?" poll.

[megagoth1702 252]

This should be stickied right next to the "Who likes free beer?" poll.

This post had absolutely nothing to do with the topic, read it again to convince yourself.

I am trying to understand stuff here and to go into detail. Of course there are people who just post "I WANT" and that's it. And this thread is not about that.

I want to understand why the stuff is how it is, what UDP handshaking is and why animations are played at slower speeds than they should.

[Pulverizer 1]

server does the full sandbox simulation ...

Yes? The interpolation (extrapolation, actually) should happen client-side, like all games that have a smooth multiplayer animation. Not on the server...

Edited July 20, 2010 by Pulverizer

[maddogx 13]

Yes? The interpolation (extrapolation, actually) should happen client-side, like all games that have a smooth multiplayer animation. Not on the server...

^^ This.

Warping is the second highest voted issue on the CIT, right behind bad performance in towns. I hope this issue is addressed some time. Client-side interpolation would be awesome.

[Murklor 10]

I thought the warping IS the visible client interpolation? Why else would they be warping at all? If it wasnt interpolation, they'd just be stuttering from position to position, not warping back to original and repeating movement.

[megagoth1702 252]

A very important issue to me are animations guys, start talking about that as well.

Also, not all data seems to be syncronised. Often enough I have to see my apache gunner fire hellfires straight 12 o clock instead onto the enemy tank, he kills them though...

Or the cannon, which with the laser designator on shoots an arc to hit the enemy , on MY side it looks like the bullets drop faar infront of the enemy although he gets the kills anyway...

Stuff like that...

[Uh12345 10]

This is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed

[-)rStrangelove 0]

Warping is not client interpolation. An object is teleported to the correct position (server is always right) as soon as the latest TCP packet arrives which holds this new position. Prior to the position update the object is not moving while the animation still runs. (like soldiers walking in 1 place)

[tacticalnuggets 24]

)rStrangelove;1694398']Warping is not client interpolation. An object is teleported to the correct position (server is always right) as soon as the latest TCP packet arrives which holds this new position. Prior to the position update the object is not moving while the animation still runs. (like soldiers walking in 1 place)

If i'm aware, arma2 still uses udp protocol, right?