War with Iran.

[Big Mac 19]

One human life, his, plus one assassin's bullet.

It's kinda hard to kill someone when they were know never to sleep in the same bed twice and had more than one double, but this is walker we're talking about and in his mind a WW3 can start over a tree. If that was the case then the Axe Murder Incident of 1976 would have renewed the Korean War... Edited August 4, 2010 by Big Mac

[walker 0]

Walker, I don't know if you're just incapable of fully reading what someone else writes or not, but why don't you go ahead and read that question again. If you can.

Hi Clavicula_nox4817

You keep saying this as though there was a question you really wanted answering.

I have aswered every question you put though you do not like the answers.

May I nail you down?

And the mysterious question you want answering is what?

Without you even being able to state the question how can any one answer it?

Allow me to help you; finish the following line.

My Question is...

Kind regards walker

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Hi Clavicula_nox4817

You keep saying this as though there was a question you really wanted answering.

I have aswered every question you put though you do not like the answers.

May I nail you down?

And the mysterious question you want answering is what?

Without you even being able to state the question how can any one answer it?

Allow me to help you; finish the following line.

My Question is...

Kind regards walker

Do you seriously not know? Jesus...

What has been the cost to remove other evil men?

or

What has been the cost to fail to remove other evil men?

I guess it was 2 simple questions, instead of one. Maybe that's what threw you off? You didn't answer them, you just started talking about oil. I didn't ask, or talk about, oil. I know we invaded Iraq under false pretenses; I've been saying that ever since you started going on your avoidance rants.

The closest you came was some nonsensical statement about 1 man and 1 assassin's bullet.

I just don't understand the extreme effort you've gone to avoid answering 2 relatively simple questions.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Listen Walker, We found missiles in Iraq, that according to UNSCR-1441 are classified as Weapons of Mass Destruction. Here is a picture, and here are links.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Samoud_2

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/al-samoud_2.htm#prof

On February 13, 2003, a UN panel reported that Iraq's Al-Samoud 2 missiles, disclosed by Iraq to weapons inspectors in December, have a range of 180 km, in breach of UNSCR 1441. The limit allowed by the UN is 150 km, a threshold at which the missile crosses into being known as a weapon of mass destruction.

Iraq agreed to destroy the Al-Samoud 2 long range missiles, and as mid-March 2003, a number had been destroyed. Although UNMOVIC ordered to stop its production, Iraq assembled some 20 missiles during the early months of 2003.

American forces found a cache of twelve Al Samoud missiles south of Baiji on July 21, 2003.

[maturin 12]

180km? Oh, that's rich.

US Military definition of WMD: "Chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapons capable of a high order of destruction or causing mass casualties and exclude the means of transporting or propelling the weapon where such means is a separable and divisible part from the weapon."

"But we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

-Condoleeza Rice

I'm not sure this was what they were talking about.

[Big Mac 19]

180km? Oh, that's rich.

US Military definition of WMD: "Chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapons capable of a high order of destruction or causing mass casualties and exclude the means of transporting or propelling the weapon where such means is a separable and divisible part from the weapon."

"But we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

-Condoleeza Rice

I'm not sure this was what they were talking about.

Exactly and Darkhorse just doesn't seem to get it that there were no Chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapons found.

He seems to think that just because we found missiles that COULD carry a nuclear warhead that justifies the war when in fact it doesn't when we went in there on the premise of Iraq trying to develop a nuclear weapon when in fact they weren't.

Edited August 4, 2010 by Big Mac

[HyperU2 11]

Saddam just made everyone (yeah Clinton too) believe he had WMD's. He did a hell of a job and paid the price.

[maturin 12]

Iran's revenge, really. He was more scared of them than he was of us. Oops.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Actually Mac, we found the Chemical and Biological weapons. We found stockpiles of artillery shells filled with Sarin, we found mobile chemical labs, we found everything needed to wage a war with those weapons. It's just that most of the components were not actually assembled. Basically, they had all the parts, it just wasn't reported in the news because they hadn't assembled them yet. It would have taken them a few days to assemble everything, but they did have the means. Therefor they DID have WMDs. We may not have invaded over 10-20 missiles and some chemical weapons/labs, but they DID have WMDs.

Now, I'm off to pack.

[maturin 12]

Actually Mac, we found the Chemical and Biological weapons. We found stockpiles of artillery shells filled with Sarin, we found mobile chemical labs, we found everything needed to wage a war with those weapons. It's just that most of the components were not actually assembled. Basically, they had all the parts, it just wasn't reported in the news because they hadn't assembled them yet. It would have taken them a few days to assemble everything, but they did have the means. Therefor they DID have WMDs. We may not have invaded over 10-20 missiles and some chemical weapons/labs, but they DID have WMDs.

Now, I'm off to pack.

A bunch of crackpots who worship Yoga and Nostradamus got their hands on enough Sarin gas to flood several Japanese subway tunnels. It's not that hard. And the victims of the attack suffered a severe case of... tummy ache.

Everyone and their mother has weapons of mass destruction. Kazakhstan has enough viruses to kill the world seven times over. This isn't the threat the war was sold on.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

This isn't the threat the war was sold on.

No, the war was sold on the "9/11 Connection" which didn't exist. Like somebody said in an earlier post (It may have been Mac, I'm not sure) If you would have told an American that Iraq wasn't involved in 9/11 around 2003 they would have dismissed you as an idiot. They claimed Iraq had WMDs. This claim was true, but they didn't have anything that was worth going to war over. Basically, they took the truth that Iraq had WMDs, magnified it by 100, and then fed it to the American public.

[Big Mac 19]

No, the war was sold on the "9/11 Connection" which didn't exist. Like somebody said in an earlier post (It may have been Mac, I'm not sure) If you would have told an American that Iraq wasn't involved in 9/11 around 2003 they would have dismissed you as an idiot. They claimed Iraq had WMDs. This claim was true, but they didn't have anything that was worth going to war over. Basically, they took the truth that Iraq had WMDs, magnified it by 100, and then fed it to the American public.

The war was sold on both a 911 connection and the suspicion that Iraq was developing nukes, both turned out to be false. The media used WMD as a common term for nukes. The Iraqis abandoned their bio weapons program in the mid 90s according to the Iraq Survey Group out of fear that discovery of it would result in severe political repercussions including the extension of UN sanctions. However, they concluded, Hussein had perpetuated ambiguity regarding a possible program as a strategic deterrent against Iran. The US was sold on the war because of phony 911 connection and a phony nuclear threat..

Edited August 4, 2010 by Big Mac

[maturin 12]

Hussein had perpetuated ambiguity regarding a possible program as a strategic deterrent against Iran.

Just like Israel. There's more than one country that needed a new strategy in that department.

[walker 0]

Hi all

One thing that made me curious with the reported movement of an Israeli troop ship with a battalion of Israeli troops through the Suez Canal why?

Insertion into Iran to take out nuclear Installations has been mooted as has protection of a Saudi Arabian airport agreed with Saudi Royal Family. What about this scenario capture of a suitable Iranian Airfield such as Konarak Airport in southern Iran.

It is near the coast with plenty of suitable landing beaches. it would allow Israel to land and refuel its aircraft and act as a base for secondary assaults. It would take the Iranians some time to move sufficient forces to retake it. Taking airfields is something Israel has done before. A pearl harbour type assault on the Iranian naval ports of Chabahar, Behesti and Bandar would be needed too but those would be within Israeli capabilities.

Anyway just some minor speculation as a result of why Israel needs troops in the Gulf?

Kind Regards walker

Edited August 6, 2010 by walker

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

Didn hear that 1 Walker, did hear about them cruising down the suezcanal last month or so, but if this is true it means the buildup is and was still undergoing but with sending troops think its almost time for action.

cya

[belgerot 33]

Iran? Give me one good fucking reason.

[walker 0]

Hi all

Iran continues to work on "Swarming Strategy" and technology for its navy

Iran navy produces armed copy of Bladerunner 51 speedboat

Iran says it will mass produce armed replicas of the Bladerunner 51, the British-built speedboat hailed among the fastest in the world, for its navy in the Gulf.

By Alastair Jamieson

Published: 10:32AM BST 11 Aug 2010

A senior commander said Iran would arm the copy vessel with missiles and torpedoes as it continues to build its military presence in the Strait of Hormuz.

General Ali Fadavi of the Revolutionary Guards's navy, told AFP: "The Bladerunner is a British ship that holds the world speed record. We got a copy [on which] we made some changes so it can launch missiles and torpedoes...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/7938334/Iran-navy-produces-armed-copy-of-Bladerunner-51-speedboat.html

As always follow the link to the original text

Swarming is believed to be the method of choice for the Iranian navy as it has not got the large naval yards; it prefers to use hundreds if not thousands of small fast boats able to be launched from anywhere along Iran's very long coast line, mixed with air and fast boat mine laying and multiple shore launched missile and torpedo attacks. A test of this technique in a scenario war game conducted by the US Pentagon pre the Iraq war proved so destructive to the US Forces that Donald Dumsfeld ordered it shut down, thus preventing US forces understanding the implications and prepairing defenses for it.

The technique means that Naval foces have to stand further off the Iranian coast than they would like and that the Strates of Hormuz would be un-navigable. With major consequences for forces bottled up in the gulf and creating an Embargo on Oil from the Gulf causing oil prices to spike once again to the plus $150 dollars a barrel mark.

Iran also took delivery of a futher four mini submarines.

...Iran last weekend took delivery of four new mini-submarines of the home-produced Ghadir class. Weighing 120 tonnes, the “stealth†submarines are aimed at operations in shallow waters, notably in the Gulf.

Link as above

Probable purpose being to be part of an attempt to close the Strates of Hormuz.

Kind Regards walker

Edited August 11, 2010 by walker

[Baff1 0]

Iran? Give me one good fucking reason.

The Straight of Hormuz.

[TomatoArden 0]

Iran? Give me one good fucking reason.

nuclear weapons, horrible government, threat to stability in middle east, goverment back insurgents in iraq.

I don't think there'll be a full-scale war with Iran unless Iran actually attacks any of its neighbours or NATO forces. But it seems likely that Israel will decide to do an air strike on Iranian uranium enrichment centres to stop Iran producing any viable material which could be used in a nuclear weapon. The Saudis are even being so nice to let the Israelis fly there via Saudi airspace.

[TangoRomeo 10]

Iran? Give me one good fucking reason.

You could take a look on the map, or read "The Grand Chessboard" by Brzezinsky. Make your own conclusions.

[Peonza 10]

Another "good vs evil" war.. We all know History, and dirty politic games USA was playing from WW2 , up to now - to provoke and get into wars for their own imperialistic interests and domination.

Nuclear weapons?

Why they cant have one? (Israel have nuclear weapons from 1970's or so, and without any declaration and international laws)

horrible government?

Yeah , great reason to attack them, arguments like this , totaly kills me

threat to stability in middle east

: Iran is very peacefull, they hadnt made any wars for hundereds of years, just living their life. The war in 1980's with Iraq was defence. The "threat to stability" , i think you refer to fact Iran criticize Israel's politics

goverment back insurgents in iraq

proofs? Even if that would be true, its kinda normal , remember Cold War?

[walker 0]

Hi all

For some time I have been curious about the number of bellicose statements coming from Iran. They seem too confident by half.

The reason may be that they already have nukes; there is some evidence that Iran already has nukes. David Cameron the new and inexperienced UK Prime Minister may have stupidly given away the intel on this.

5 August 2010 Last updated at 18:37

David Cameron accused by Labour of Iran nuclear 'gaffe'

Labour has accused David Cameron of committing a gaffe by mistakenly claiming Iran has a nuclear weapon.

Asked why he was backing Turkey to join the EU, he said it could help solve the world's problems, "like the Middle East peace process, like the fact that Iran has got a nuclear weapon"...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10886435

As always follow the link for the original and full text

Does Iran already have nukes?

Well the Russians think so and said so in 2002:

...In explaining Russia's rationale, General Yuri Baluyevsky, the Russian Deputy Chief of Staff said at a press conference in June 2002, "Iran does have nuclear weapons. These are non-strategic nuclear weapons. I mean these are not ICBMs with a range of more than 5,500 kilometers... As for the danger of Iran's attack on the United States, the danger is zero." General Baluyevsky's extraordinary briefing implied that Iran had acquired its fissile material from another source so there was no reason for Russia not to complete the nuclear reactor at Bushehr. He concluded"This co-operation will continue." (The cooperation, aside from nuclear reactors, included the delivery of Russian Kilo-class diesel- powered submarines, Mig-29 fighters, Sukhoy bombers a global navigation system and satellite-launching assistance .)...

http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/2002question/Iran_fullticket.htm

As always follow the link for the original and full text

Reportedly Bush CIA apointee Porter Goss confirmed it to the Turkish Government.

...Goss, who came to Ankara just after FBI Director Robert Mueller’s visit, brought up Iran’s alleged attempts to develop nuclear weapons. It was said that Goss first told Ankara that Iran has nuclear weapons and this situation was creating a huge threat for both Turkey and other states in the region. Diplomatic sources say that Washington wants Turkey to coordinate with its Iran policies...

http://regimechangeiran.blogspot.com/2005/12/turkey-goss-reportedly-told-ankara.html

As always follow the link for the original and full text

According to FAS Israel was aware of this too!

DOCUMENTS INDICATE IRAN HAS NUCLEAR WEAPONS

ISRAEL LINE THURSDAY, APRIL 9, 1998

According to Iranian government documents in Israel's possession, Iran

received several nuclear warheads from a former Soviet republic during the

early 1990s, THE JERUSALEM POST reported.

The documents have been deemed authentic by United States congressional

experts and are still being studied in Israel. They contain correspondence

between Iranian government officials and leaders of Iran's Revolutionary

Guards that discusses Iran's successful efforts to obtain nuclear warheads

from former Soviet republics. The documents appear to bolster reports from

1992 that Iran received enriched uranium and up to four nuclear warheads

from Kazakhstan, with help from the Russian underworld.

...

http://www.fas.org/news/iran/1998/980409-iran2.htm

As always follow the link for the original and full text

The question then comes why would Iran not just announce it?

The answer for: why Iran has not just announced it already has nukes; may be that they want to lure an attack as cover for breaking the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and pretext for an attack on Israel.

Or they may just be copying Israel's policy of ambiguity.

Either way such a state of play alters the whole ball game.

Kind Regards walker

Edited August 13, 2010 by walker

[maddogx 13]

Or maybe they purposefully created rumors that they already have nukes to create a simple and cheap deterrent. The global politics equivalent of pushing your finger against the inside of your pocket and pretending it's a gun.

[walker 0]

Or maybe they purposefully created rumors that they already have nukes to create a simple and cheap deterrent. The global politics equivalent of pushing your finger against the inside of your pocket and pretending it's a gun.

Hi MadDogX

It could be except none of the sources I quoted are Iranian, so Iran is not the one pushing its finger against the inside of its pocket and pretending it's a gun.

The Russian Quote is the most telling though, as it is from General of the Army Yury Nikolayevich Baluyevsky Chief of the General Staff for the Russian Defense Department until 2008 and is the one which goes into specifics.

The other sources are a Gaffe by the inexperienced UK Prime Minister.

An Israeli intelligence report.

And a reported warning to Turkey by the Director of the CIA.

To take your analogy method of argument: More the case of a bunch of witnesses seeing the gun in the holster under his arm and phoning the police.

There are also several other reports of Iran acquiring Nukes from a former soviet nation.

Kind Regards walker

Edited August 13, 2010 by walker

[maddogx 13]

It could be except none of the sources I quoted are Iranian.

I'm aware of that, but it doesn't change anything. If you want to make people believe that you have nukes, you don't necessarily have to make a public statement out of it. Just circulate some internal memos and wait for the foreign intelligence agencies to pick up on them. Come to think of it, doing that will make it look all the more believable.