tank FCS poll

[*LK1* 10]

well basically a FCS for tanks in arma2/OA should(if we want a simulative FCS)

works in this way:you can set a key for tanks to activate the laser range finder and the ballistic computer.so when you are aiming a vehicle and you press that key,the cannon is automatically following the target and after a couple of seconds you can shoot precisely.in real life and on steel beast which is a tank simulator you have to wait 3/4 sec. to finish this procedure and to shoot.

and since now the FCS is activated and the cannon is pointing at the target,but target is down,you have just to repress the key to disable it.

would be nice to make a sort of less precision if you want to use the FCS but you dont want to wait 3/4 sec by making an higher dispersion shell value for example..

since BIS,with every new patch or new game of the series,is adding more realism i guess this new function could be wellcome from the comunity.

and considering the fact this FCS is not difficult at all to be used,basically you have just to press 1 key,everyone could used this function easily.plus it could be added on SP a tutorial mission of course.

but if someone want to shoot in manual mode,as in modern tanks is pretty much possible you can simply let us able to do it.so everyone could be satisfied.

i know we have already a sort of FCS you guys maybe wonder why i would to change it.the current FCS is bugged because also when you have revealed the target and you have a marker on it sometimes the diamond(which is the signal you could have a precise shoot on it)sometimes appear and disappear without no reasons.even if you dont have changed the aim...and sometimes you get targets behind an hill which you were not able to see it..even the rectangular radar is a bit bugged.

plus the current FCS is not precise because when you get the diamond doesn't mean you can shoot and hit the target.the diamond is just an approximate indication of where you should aim but to kill tanks you need a more accurate knowledge of the shell ballistic.

i would also to point up if we have a sort of realistic FCS the immersion feeling and the idea to be involved in a real battlefield is much stronger :cool:.

radar chapter:

tanks have not a radar.in arma 2 and OA(considering what i have see in the videos of OA)yes.a part the realism aspect i would to make in evidence how this thing has a bad affect on gameplay.

basically the radar on A2 works in this way.it has an operative range and if a vehicle is inside on it you start to see a quadrate white/yellow or red depends on situation.if you press the tab key well you are now able to see the target on your monitor with a marker on it.there is only 1 factor you must satisfy to see the target on your monitor and on the radar. there must be nothing between you and the enemy vehicle:no buildings ecc...

the bad effect on the game play is:in this way,and if you have played on berzerk/aas maps you know it,the tank camper has an advantage on other vehicles cuz flanking an enemy which can easy spot you by pressing TAB key is not usefull at all.

well sure there are some trick you can use to kill the camper but he has an advantage which is indipedent on his skill.

without a radar the tank tactics and the way to use it would be more dymanics and realistics..since camping with a tank well is not basically the best tactic you can use if you are without a radar.

that why i have a simple idea and i have putted the second option on the poll:tanks and even other vehicles have not a radar but a digital map.on this digital map you can see enemies spotted from other friendly soldiers/tanks.

could be a good idea to change the function of the radar to make it a digital map.that means instead to see every vehicles approached your operative radar range you can see enemy vehicles/soldiers detected by friendly units.when the enemy is dead you can make an automatic script or whatever so the quadrate disappear or you can put a key to delete enemy markers.but to be clear i would not to see the enemy quadrate markers changing position automatically cuz the enemy is moving...when you or another vehicle is spotting an enemy with the reveal target key then you have the enemy position on your rectangular digital map(aka the old radar with a different function). general idea sound good to me.

so if the radar,and we all know is not realistic,is to difficult to remove,but is strange cuz i can remember NWD for arma or the fcs for ace2..,it could be a good idea to replace the original function with a sort of digital map function.

explanation poll:

if you vote the first option you want a FCS as i have explained-without the default radar and without any sort of digital map.so you are voting only for a more realistic FCS in game.

second option:yes for a FCS as i have explained plus replace the current radar function with a digital map function.

third option:yes for FCS as i have explained but dont touch the radar,leave him as currently it is.

fourth option:no new FCS,no digital map,leave the game as it is at the moment.

(since i have just 100 caracthers for every voice of the poll i've prefered to clarify the option avaibles)

_________________________________________________________________

here some video showing digital maps:

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(5:06 you can see digital map)

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(0:33 digital map on left side of FLIR)

mm i can't find right now a french documentary with english subtitles where the digital maps and the functions are well explained.

i will upload it when i wil find it.

but anyway if you guys have the passion of vehicles/and weapons as me guess you clearly know what im talking about.

BIS too should know something about digital maps since they are selling simulators directly at the armies around the world.

Edited May 2, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[Inkompetent 0]

A new FCS would definitely be welcome. However I think that the makeshift FLIR (the radar) is decent enough as it is. Maybe with FLIR getting into the game the 'digital map' suggestion will be nice. Don't really know. But for now the 'radar' is doing its job well enough.

Laser ranging and lead calculation based on range and turret traversion speed is needed though, since at the moment the tab-targeting only adjusts for elevation.

[*LK1* 10]

yeah,of course keep in mind these solutions can be added even in A2 but are suggested for OA.

Edited May 2, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[Beagle 684]

For me, the current FCS implementation via right mouse button lock on works good enought, at least in Profi mode without 3rd person view.

Radar change and FLIR will come with "Operation Arrowhead" in June.

[*LK1* 10]

For me, the current FCS implementation via right mouse button lock on works good enought, at least in Profi mode without 3rd person view.

Radar change and FLIR will come with "Operation Arrowhead" in June.

mmm we dont know nothing about the radar in OA,at the moment is just an esthetical change:from rectangular to circular radar.

but YEAH finally we will have FLIR in game :cool:

[Beagle 684]

mmm we dont know nothing about the radar in OA,at the moment is just an esthetical change:from rectangular to circular radar.

but YEAH finally we will have FLIR in game :cool:

Not only that, if you look closely you will se that it gives range information as well and is dependent on the scan arc the simulated device has.

[*LK1* 10]

Not only that, if you look closely you will se that it gives range information as well and is dependent on the scan arc the simulated device has.

oh yeah saw, it give you the range.but the FCS and the radar still the same for what we know.

Edited May 2, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[max power 21]

Newer tanks do have a 'radar' sort of, in that they are part of an electronic battlefield and share information.

The radar isn't really simulating radar, but rather, the operator's situational awareness. I think it's to keep the player on par with the capabilities of the AI.

[*LK1* 10]

Newer tanks do have a 'radar' sort of, in that they are part of an electronic battlefield and share information.

The radar isn't really simulating radar, but rather, the operator's situational awareness. I think it's to keep the player on par with the capabilities of the AI.

yeah is the touch screen digital map,you receive enemy positions from other troops.problem in arma is that we have a radar literaly.is like a tool constantly

scanning for enemies enterning your radar operative range.when someone is entered it you see a quadrate on radar.

has bad implication on gameplay since a camper on a hill can take fully advantage of this feature.

Edited May 2, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[{bdr}*nemesi* 22]

Voted for removing radar

We will see the improvements in Operation Arrowhead, please BIS remember this is a simulation game

[*LK1* 10]

we hope...:D

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Videos from OA has already shown that FCS is already improved, incl laser readout. Is it a fully realistic FCS? No, probably not. I've already explained in another thread how the new "radar" makes it more difficult to spot a target shown on it, since you don't know it's elevation. If the "radar" can be configured (even via modding) to show only revealed targets (that you know about via information sharing), that would help greatly in making it function as a "digital map". The normal map in Arma would already function well as a digital one as you can put in markers yourself for everyone to see.

If FLIR works well even in daylight (I'm assuming some/most(/all even maybe?) OA tanks have FLIR capability), the "radar" might be removed. If not from vanilla, then modders may have ability to make all IR Targets (that's what shows up) same colors and leave the identification process completely up to the crew, or remove it completely. Keep in mind that if such mods become popular, a mission designer can choose to kick the enterer out if he is not running such mods.

There are many possibilities, but I do want this game this year! :)

[*LK1* 10]

Videos from OA has already shown that FCS is already improved, incl laser readout. Is it a fully realistic FCS? No, probably not. I've already explained in another thread how the new "radar" makes it more difficult to spot a target shown on it, since you don't know it's elevation. If the "radar" can be configured (even via modding) to show only revealed targets (that you know about via information sharing), that would help greatly in making it function as a "digital map".

mmm can you post the video showing an m1a1 shooting at targets?

because i cant find it right now :(.

anyway in this video i saw just range finder function so you can see the distance from your position at what you are pointing.but i dont remember any

new FCS.i could be wrong of course...

There are many possibilities, but I do want this game this year! :)

yea me too :bounce3:

Edited May 10, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Found found image1 and image2 from here. Video I think I remembered was this one.

Only really shows the laser range finder, true, since distances are so short. But I guess they didn't leave the old "FCS". Now coupled with ranging, I guess you right click to "calculate elevation (and lead? might not be *that* lucky, lol) needed for the shot", fire, and hit. At least first shot hit probability increased from guessing, but unknown if lasing affects coax as well. Lasing and first hit, what could you possibly want more? :p

I know it isn't 100%, far from it, but I can live with that. It looks like an improvement at least, making it easier for modders.

[ScareCroweb 10]

I really hope that this was not on realistic mode since this video showed a constant rangefinder, meaning its laser was constantly calculating the range, which is unrealistic, because a laser on tanks needs to have cooldown time before it can be fired again. it should work like in Ace that you hit tab to get the range before you shoot then a cooldown timer starts.

@Carl Lasing a target will estimate elevation for all weapons, Sabot, coax and Heat and MPAT you dont need to lase after switching wepons.

Edited May 4, 2010 by ScareCroweb

[Beagle 684]

I really hope that this was not on realistic mode since this video showed a constant rangefinder, meaning its laser was constantly calculating the range, which is unrealistic, because a laser on tanks needs to have cooldown time before it can be fired again. it should work like in Ace that you hit tab to get the range before you shoot then a cooldown timer starts.

@Carl Lasing a target will estimate elevation for all weapons, Sabot, coax and Heat and MPAT you dont need to lase after switching wepons.

Settle down, now this is looking like Nitpicking! For a game thats was never meant to be a true Tank-, Helo-, Jet-, Car-Sim this is more than just sufficient.

[*LK1* 10]

Settle down, now this is looking like Nitpicking! For a game thats was never meant to be a true Tank-, Helo-, Jet-, Car-Sim this is more than just sufficient.

but the point,for me of course,is to move forward and slowly to an integration

with an infantry simulator and a tank simulator and maybe a more difficult flight model for choppers/jets(this last thing well is the most problematic maybe..)

they could try to add a tank simulator into the game since is not so difficult

to familiarize with...:bounce3::bounce3:

[ScareCroweb 10]

Settle down, now this is looking like Nitpicking! For a game thats was never meant to be a true Tank-, Helo-, Jet-, Car-Sim this is more than just sufficient.

Hey beagle I would rather they didnt add a rangefinder at all if all they add is a constant rangefinder which is even more arcaidish than the radar, if there is constant rangefinding then they cant add the russian countermeasures either cause then the abramstank will be revealed to the russian t90's emediatly when they aim at it.

Why the hell are people so afraid of realism?? its not like realism=boredom realism is fun I mean why does it have to be arcaisdish.

This game WAS meant to be true to the real thing and this is why people buy it to get the feel of real army "fun" :)

[*LK1* 10]

Hey beagle I would rather they didnt add a rangefinder at all if all they add is a constant rangefinder which is even more arcaidish than the radar, if there is constant rangefinding then they cant add the russian countermeasures either cause then the abramstank will be revealed to the russian t90's emediatly when they aim at it.

Why the hell are people so afraid of realism?? its not like realism=boredom realism is fun I mean why does it have to be arcaisdish.

This game WAS meant to be true to the real thing and this is why people buy it to get the feel of real army "fun" :)

*

saint words mate :bounce3:

[manzilla 1]

FCS would be nice but I'll just use the one ACE2 implemented. NWD's FCS for A1 was supposed to get a community make over but after A2 came out that went kaput. If someone still has the updated version I wonder if that could be ported to A2. NWD's A1 system was great but it was limited to BIS models.

Isn't there a video of OA with FCS? It didn't look to realistic if I recall but the could make it better. If I really saw said video in the first place.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Manzilla

[*LK1* 10]

FCS would be nice but I'll just use the one ACE2 implemented.

well let's hope to have this tool even for arma 2 vanilla you know, so you will not need a mod to have nice tank battles :)

NWD's FCS for A1 was supposed to get a community make over but after A2 came out that went kaput. If someone still has the updated version I wonder if that could be ported to A2. NWD's A1 system was great but it was limited to BIS models.

was a nice addon,but seems like that guy is dead :(

Isn't there a video of OA with FCS? It didn't look to realistic if I recall but the could make it better. If I really saw said video in the first place.

nah there is a video showing only a range finder not a FCS.

Edited May 4, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[CarlGustaffa 4]

How do you "show" an FCS? You laze, and you hit.

Never claimed the one (range finder) that is there to be "realistic". But with all the configs already done, it will be so much more easier for modders to make it more realistic, instead of taking ages only to find out it doesn't work in MP. Naturally talking about NoWonderDogs FCS for Arma1. ACE have come up with a MP capable solution for Arma2, but if a better (if not 100% realistic) system was already in, maybe ACE would have been able to finish it much sooner than writing everything from scratch with no examples to work from.

Edit: Naturally an FCS isn't laze and hit everywhere.

is another example, just a tad more difficult to use, guess you know from who :) For those who haven't already, I suggest reading up on the manual for these. Edited May 5, 2010 by CarlGustaffa

[NoRailgunner 0]

Here is a description how it works in SteelBeasts:

M1A1 Engaging_Targets

BIS are implementing somekind of easy-to-use FCS (after years of developing and requesting...) in OA. But somehow they still dont see the relevance of having an view through those small observation pericopes. Guess that vehicle crews will be again forced to be "happy" to use only these simplistic + limited sights like we have now. :(

[*LK1* 10]

How do you "show" an FCS? You laze, and you hit.

you see the tank crosshair(dont know if is the correct name but you have understand)starting to follow the target without any snaps and the crosshair is right on the center of the target without changing position minimum.

also the shell doesn't go through the crosshair and he doesn't go on the target with a straight line since the cannon is anticipating the target but the crosshair remains on it.

But with all the configs already done, it will be so much more easier for modders to make it more realistic, instead of taking ages only to find out it doesn't work in MP. Naturally talking about NoWonderDogs FCS for Arma1.

yeah but the addon you have mentionated was made by a singol guy,here we have BIS,guess they can make this solution works on MP if they want.since they are our heroes :)

here the FCS addon for arma 1,take it just a suggestion nont like the bible of

FCS since is not 100%well done:in RL you should wait 4 sec. before shooting and here you can fire immediately.

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p.s.

if you guys can post a video of the FCS for tanks in ace 2 would be appreciate :)

Edited May 5, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[snoops_213 75]

FCS would be nice but I'll just use the one ACE2 implemented. NWD's FCS for A1 was supposed to get a community make over but after A2 came out that went kaput. If someone still has the updated version I wonder if that could be ported to A2.

zGuba did the community update with zTanks i think it was called. I assume that it was this that was ported/rebuilt for ACE2. The video's showing that BIS are even working on improving the current basic FCS at all, even if its just a range read out, it is still nice to see. Cant wait to see what they end up doing.