SSD for Arma 2

[galzohar 31]

Yeah, RAM would be much cheaper and much faster.

[KeyCat 131]

Nope.

Quite simply untrue against fast HDDs. I've tested this pretty thouroughly. Against Green HDDs or slower/older HDDs, I'd agree with you but not against performance HDDs.

SSD is currently not an option for me but since I suspect my ~3 years old ST3250620AS is a bottleneck in A2 I plan to get a new faster HDD since I need the bigger space as well for other things like VM's.

I've been checking out the following two but can't decide what to pick...

a) Samsung SpinPoint F3 HD103SJ 32MB 1TB

b) Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000528AS 32MB 1TB

Any experience and/or recommendations?

/KC

[qwertz 10]

SSD is currently not an option for me but since I suspect my ~3 years old ST3250620AS is a bottleneck in A2 I plan to get a new faster HDD since I need the bigger space as well for other things like VM's.

I've been checking out the following two but can't decide what to pick...

a) Samsung SpinPoint F3 HD103SJ 32MB 1TB

b) Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST31000528AS 32MB 1TB

Any experience and/or recommendations?

/KC

The WD Caviar Black 1TB is the fastest in terms of I/O amongst the TB drivers, you should consider that as well.

That said:

[Any HDD] <---light years---> [sSD] <---Light Years---> [Ramdisk]

Your money would be best spent if you would get a small (30-40GB) SSD for around 100 bucks (e.g. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167025) as your system/ArmA drive and a cheap TB disk for storage. It is a world of difference in terms of speed, trust me.

[bangtail 0]

The WD Caviar Black 1TB is the fastest in terms of I/O amongst the TB drivers, you should consider that as well.

That said:

[Any HDD] <---light years---> [sSD] <---Light Years---> [Ramdisk]

Your money would be best spent if you would get a small (30-40GB) SSD for around 100 bucks (e.g. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167025) as your system/ArmA drive and a cheap TB disk for storage. It is a world of difference in terms of speed, trust me.

Nope.

Real world tests, not misleading synthetic benchmarks that mean absolutely nothing ;)

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/24310-western-digital-caviar-black-2tb-hard-drive-review-12.html

After working with a lot of SSDs we can honestly say this is the first Hard Disk Drive that we would even entertain the thought of using as our main drive. We’re an elitist lot aren’t we? In fact, if you portioned off the first 200GB or so of the Black 2TB the resulting “C Drive†would be a force to be reckoned with even against SSDs.

SSDs are not 'light years' faster than performance HDDs like the WD Black series. They do make good OS drives but don't listen to anyone who tells you they are 'night and day' because they are experiencing a severe case of 'buyer enthusiasm'. SSDs are great but it's up to you to decide whether you want to drop $200.00 on a 64GB SSD or $200.00 on 2 x 1TB WD Black in RAID0. Believe me, the only real difference you are going to see there is 30x more space.

You are right about the WD Black drives however, they are easily the best HDDs around.

Edited April 20, 2010 by BangTail

[qwertz 10]

Nope.

Real world tests, not misleading synthetic benchmarks that mean absolutely nothing ;)

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/24310-western-digital-caviar-black-2tb-hard-drive-review-12.html

SSDs are not 'light years' faster than performance HDDs like the WD Black series. They do make good OS drives but don't listen to anyone who tells you they are 'night and day' because they are experiencing a severe case of 'buyer enthusiasm'. SSDs are great but it's up to you to decide whether you want to drop $200.00 on a 64GB SSD or $200.00 on 2 x 1TB WD Black in RAID0. Believe me, the only real difference you are going to see there is 30x more space.

You are right about the WD Black drives however, they are easily the best HDDs around.

Bangtail, with all due respect, but you are wrong. Have you ever used a SSD? I am not talking synthetic benchmarks or buyer enthusiasm. Any modern SSD is orders of magnitude faster in the real-world-relevant small read/write I/O. I am not even looking at "sustained throughput" because this is indeed not relevant.

I have bought, tested, used and analyzed SSDs for 3 years now (owned 5 different models so far, currently running 4), and before that I did quite a bit of research and testing on harddrive I/O performance, RAID and storage controllers. I hate wasting money and would not recommend and SSD if it was just bling.

The most easy way to speed up any system in real life everyday use scenarios is buying a (even small) SSD for OS and programs.

Originally Posted by Hardware Canucks

After working with a lot of SSDs we can honestly say this is the first Hard Disk Drive that we would even entertain the thought of using as our main drive. We’re an elitist lot aren’t we? In fact, if you portioned off the first 200GB or so of the Black 2TB the resulting “C Drive†would be a force to be reckoned with even against SSDs.

I would suggest storagereview.com or even anandtech.com for more competent drive/ssd reviews.

Edited April 20, 2010 by qwertz

[bangtail 0]

Bangtail, with all due respect, but you are wrong. Have you ever used a SSD? I am not talking synthetic benchmarks or buyer enthusiasm. Any modern SSD is orders of magnitude faster in the real-world-relevant small read/write I/O. I am not even looking at "sustained throughput" because this is indeed not relevant.

I have bought, tested, used and analyzed SSDs for 3 years now (owned 5 different models so far, currently running 4), and before that I did quite a bit of research and testing on harddrive I/O performance, RAID and storage controllers. I hate wasting money and would not recommend and SSD if it was just bling.

The most easy way to speed up any system in real life everyday use scenarios is buying a (even small) SSD for OS and programs.

I would suggest storagereview.com or even anandtech.com for more competent drive/ssd reviews.

I wouldn't dispute what you are claiming based on other people's experiences.

My own extensive experiences and those real world tests tell me that it is in fact you who is wrong.

I'm not going to start bragging about my experience (like you did) but I'll wager my first hand experience with SSDs (and every other PC component) is far more extensive than yours.

I've gone through about 20 SSDs this year already, what's your point? SSDs are great, I can't stress that enough, but you are deceiving people here by telling them that there is a 'light year' or 'night and day' difference between SSDs and performance HDDs. People make purchasing decisions based on what they read here.

I don't need to read reviews, I use both of them on a daily basis. I posted that to refute your claims of 'night and day' performance, which it does quite effectively I might add.

Edited April 20, 2010 by BangTail

[jblackrupert 14]

Thousands of people using SSD's are imagining things. The video demonstrations and vast number of sites reporting the performance are all liars. :j:

You sound like the people who still claim there is no vistual benefit to owning an HDTV playing Blu-ray.

I'm not going to start bragging about my experience (like you did)

I've gone through about 20 SSDs this year already,

but I'll wager my first hand experience with SSDs (and every other PC component) is far more extensive than yours

Edited April 20, 2010 by jblackrupert

[bangtail 0]

Thousands of people using SSD's are imagining things. The video demonstrations and vast number of sites reporting the performance are all liars. :j:

You sound like the people who still claim there is no vistual benefit to owning an HDTV playing Blu-ray.

When did I say that? As for video demos, most of the ones I have seen are against 'green' HDDs or slow/old HDDs. SSDs are far superior to those types of drives. I've been very clear that I am referring to 'performance' HDDs, not any old HDD.

I use them myself, and in certain situations, they are far superior to HDDs. Arma 2 isn't one of them, get over it :rolleyes:

Just look at the link I posted, the WD is beating SSDs in some tests. Don't take my word for it, it's all there in black and white from a reputable site.

The most significant thing that needs to happen to make SSDs 'the norm', is that the price has to come way down. When that happens, the choice between HDD and SSD will be no choice at all. At this point, the benefits do not justify the cost vs large, fast HDDs in most cases.

Bye :)

PS : Your analogy is terrible, HDTV is indispensable for Blu-Ray :D

Edited April 20, 2010 by BangTail

[dmarkwick 261]

PS : Your analogy is terrible, HDTV is indispensable for Blu-Ray :D

Doesn't that mean that it's a great analogy? :)

[Alex72 1]

^^LOL DM... :D

Anywhoo. So to come to the great conclusion (again) that its awesome, today & price wise, to get a small SSD for the OS and 2xWD Blacks in RAID0 for ARMA2. Thats what im going for anyway.

And if i had an abundance of cash i would maybe gone with 4xSSD for ARMA2. Or something like that. :)

[bangtail 0]

^^LOL DM... :D

Anywhoo. So to come to the great conclusion (again) that its awesome, today & price wise, to get a small SSD for the OS and 2xWD Blacks in RAID0 for ARMA2. Thats what im going for anyway.

And if i had an abundance of cash i would maybe gone with 4xSSD for ARMA2. Or something like that. :)

I don't want to seem like I am always trying to rag on SSDs because I'm not. They are excellent performance wise. The only thing I object to is this 'night and day' argument.

The good thing is that we are starting to see larger capacity drives and the prices are getting better. In a year (or two), we should have large drives at very competitive prices.

Im really looking forward to Intel's Gen 3 Lyndonville. Those sound like they are going to be very fast indeed :D

Edited April 20, 2010 by BangTail

[galzohar 31]

Sure you can say that you recommend SSDs over normal HDDs, but do you really recommend someone to spend his cache on an SSD rather than simply spending it on more RAM and then setting up a ramdisk?

[bangtail 0]

Sure you can say that you recommend SSDs over normal HDDs, but do you really recommend someone to spend his cache on an SSD rather than simply spending it on more RAM and then setting up a ramdisk?

/QFT

If you really want to see A2 without any kind of stuttering/texture lag, it's the only way to go.

[Alex72 1]

I was saying going for HDD's in RAID would be better money wise but still up the performance a lot is a great way to go for ARMA2. Personally i ordered RAM enough to put A2 in RAMDRIVE as well, but as storage i want it fast, big space and cost effective so im going with WD Blacks in RAID. That way i could play A2 even without using RAMDRIVE all the time and still have good performance.

However i did order a small SSD for my OS. I think that should be superb for system speed.

[bangtail 0]

I was saying going for HDD's in RAID would be better money wise but still up the performance a lot is a great way to go for ARMA2. Personally i ordered RAM enough to put A2 in RAMDRIVE as well, but as storage i want it fast, big space and cost effective so im going with WD Blacks in RAID. That way i could play A2 even without using RAMDRIVE all the time and still have good performance.

However i did order a small SSD for my OS. I think that should be superb for system speed.

Definitely, SSDs make unbeatable system drives.

RAID0 is the most cost effective space/speed setup at present. When larger, cheaper SSDs appear, HDDs will become far less prevalent.

[qwertz 10]

Hey Bangtail - any SSD will run circles around your Caviar Black (I have one as well and love it, don't get me wrong). Arma is I/O restricted, thats why a SSD helps a lot here. RAMdisk is even better of course.

/QFT

If you really want to see A2 without any kind of stuttering/texture lag, it's the only way to go.

I know, I started the Ramdisk discussion.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=88388

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=88629

:cheers:

qwertz

Edited April 20, 2010 by qwertz

[bangtail 0]

I know, I started the Ramdisk discussion.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=88388

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=88629

:cheers:

qwertz

There we can agree :bounce3:

but we won't ever agree on the SSD/HDD argument so best to just agree to disagree on that one.

Hey Bangtail - any SSD will run circles around your Caviar Black.

No, they don't, but you can keep telling yourself that they do if it makes you feel better about the money you've spent :D

It's the language you use that is causing the disagreement here. If you said SSDs were faster than WD Black's, I'd agree with you. It's this bullsh!t claim that it will somehow change your ArmA 2 experience exponentially that I strongly object to. The levels load faster - BFD. There is still stuttering and texture lag when using SSDs.

I won't even get into how much testing I've done regarding this.

Edited April 21, 2010 by BangTail

[qwertz 10]

There we can agree :bounce3:

but we won't ever agree on the SSD/HDD argument so best to just agree to disagree on that one.

Thats OK - don't worry, I will not try to proselytize you mate :cheers:

No, they don't, but you can keep telling yourself that they do if it makes you feel better about the money you've spent :D

I won't even get into how much testing I've done regarding this.

Just googled this, have not even watched it because I know the outcome - Caviar Black vs. (cheap) SSD:

http://www.myce.com/article/ssd-vs-hdd-video-booting-everyday-tasks-26588/

:bounce3:

Peace,

qwertz

[bangtail 0]

Thats OK - don't worry, I will not try to proselytize you mate :cheers:

Just googled this, have not even watched it because I know the outcome:

http://www.myce.com/article/ssd-vs-hdd-video-booting-everyday-tasks-26588/

:bounce3:

Peace,

qwertz

I own several SSDs, and have done since they were originally available (and if you think they are expensive now lol)

I'm not trying to tell anyone that SSDs are bad, I'm simply being objective and suggesting more cost effective ways of getting great performance.

Of course the load times are faster on SSDs. I've never contended otherwise, in fact it's something I emphasize.

I think you're missing the point here, I'm not disagreeing with you that SSDs are generally better, I'm disagreeing with your claims of 'night and day', 'runs circles around' etc. That is unmitigated hyperbole which, if nothing else, is totally misleading.

Finally, SSDs are a great system upgrade and there is no doubt that they are the future of storage but don't go buying one expecting it to 'fix' Arma 2.

Edited April 22, 2010 by BangTail

[santafee 10]

First i also thought about buying a small SDD for Arma2. Now im at the point where i dont want to upgrade for only 1 game, which is maybe slightly effected.

The most annoying problem for most people is the terrible textures popping up.

Same for me. Now the question which is a bit OT: I got a 512MB HD 4850, would upgrade to a bigger Ram´d Card solve it? like the 1024 MB HD5770, or does the video mem dont affect this issue at all?

[W0lle 1050]

I'm only interested in loading times, I don't care about FPS as

1) I don't have an FPS counter running all the time :p

2) I spend 90% of my time in the editor where FPS don't matter

Himmelsfeuer

Would it be possible to stay on topic - which is about SSDs and nothing else, thank you very much. You are free to ask your question in the hardware discussion thread in the offtopic forum.

[bangtail 0]

I'm only interested in loading times, I don't care about FPS as

1) I don't have an FPS counter running all the time :p

2) I spend 90% of my time in the editor where FPS don't matter

Himmelsfeuer

Would it be possible to stay on topic - which is about SSDs and nothing else, thank you very much. You are free to ask your question in the hardware discussion thread in the offtopic forum.

Yep, SSDs will increase loading times across the board. If that's what you're after then there is no better upgrade.

Edited April 20, 2010 by BangTail

[galzohar 31]

Wouldn't ramdisk help with loading times when editing as well (after you loaded the game to RAM once)?

[bangtail 0]

Wouldn't ramdisk help with loading times when editing as well (after you loaded the game to RAM once)?

Yep, it will. Anything that runs of a RAMdisk will be exceptionally fast.

[Alex72 1]

BangTail is trying to say that load times are faster with SSD, but when coming to ARMA2 particulary in-game streaming RAID0 HDD's will do almost as good to a cheaper price with more storage. Load up time for ARMA2 is be better with SSD, but the in-game streaming will be almost as good with RAID. This is the reason I myself is going for that option. With a SSD for OS alone due to load-up times are fast as hell. That will make a great system for less money with more storage.

RAMDRIVE will be installed as well on my PC wich is the 3d option here. And i like spending my money on the RAM in this case and still get great HDD performance with RAID wich will be great for all games and progs - to a lower price with more stora.... Yeah. :)