Why is this game not more popular?

[whisper 0]

Checked the number of servers running ACE, lately?

And yes, it's only one of the aspects about polishing needed for the game. This is just the kind of things that would make the game easier to access.

[An Fiach 10]

What do the numbers of ACE servers have to do with anything? Is BIS responsible now for what every player might potentially choose to do with their servers? There are a lot of non ACE servers as well and given the ever changing state of ACE and the different versions running on many servers how do you propose they deal with that?

It doesn't need polishing, because it isn't an official part of the game and like I said, if people can't handle the vanilla game, they have no hope of coping with mods.

[frogpb 10]

just wanted to make my first post! got my steam version updated and absolutely love the game! i think the reason this game isn't more popular is because there are more people interested in a quick fix (arcade games) than there are mil-sim people (simulation games).

[wamingo 1]

Most people never get to the point of wanting to use mods and so it is rather irrelevant to the question of why it is not popular.

I'd thought it was very relevant seing as hordes of servers use mods. And with many of them you're not given a clue until you join. And when you do you're met with gibberish.

If you want people to stay past their first try, you need to give them something more appealing than frustrations.

[An Fiach 10]

I'd thought it was very relevant seing as hordes of servers use mods. And with many of them you're not given a clue until you join. And when you do you're met with gibberish.

If you want people to stay past their first try, you need to give them something more appealing than frustrations.

There are plenty of vanilla servers going, however, the suggestions for an improved server browser that tells you such things have been made already, hell half the people don't get so far as to try MP before they uninstall.

[Guest]

I'd like a nice system, where you tick boxes and it does the work for you. For example, tick boxes and it only shows the criterie you ask for:

"Password protected"

"Mods Installed"

"Patch Version"

"Game Type"

"Mission"

"Name"

Etc.

But all at the same time. So you could filter only un modded servers that are not password portected etc...

[whisper 0]

What do the numbers of ACE servers have to do with anything? Is BIS responsible now for what every player might potentially choose to do with their servers? There are a lot of non ACE servers as well and given the ever changing state of ACE and the different versions running on many servers how do you propose they deal with that?

It doesn't need polishing, because it isn't an official part of the game and like I said, if people can't handle the vanilla game, they have no hope of coping with mods.

:j:

BIS is making this game open enough for ACE & such to exist

It's one of the major selling point of the title. Of course they have to care about custom content, they have capitalized on it for years now!

But you still didn't answer the question : What would be the problem in implementing this auto-downlad system?

[-RIP- Luhgnut 10]

I'd like a nice system, where you tick boxes and it does the work for you. For example, tick boxes and it only shows the criterie you ask for:

"Password protected"

"Mods Installed"

"Patch Version"

"Game Type"

"Mission"

"Name"

Etc.

But all at the same time. So you could filter only un modded servers that are not password portected etc...

yeah, I'm with Mr. Speed on this one. You can tell what's running but you need to know what you're looking for.

But take the time to learn, and it's fine.

---------- Post added at 03:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 PM ----------

:j:

BIS is making this game open enough for ACE & such to exist

It's one of the major selling point of the title. Of course they have to care about custom content, they have capitalized on it for years now!

But you still didn't answer the question : What would be the problem in implementing this auto-downlad system?

cause right now, the whole server will lag when it sends you all the updates you should have downloaded prior. why should everyone on the server wait for you to get the download?

then take that times 20 as everyone connects. not meaning "you" you. just in general

[whisper 0]

I'll go back to my ET:QW example : as server owner, you can easily redirect the autodownload things to an external server. The game will download from any http server indicated in config. Impact on game server itself : zero

[jblackrupert 14]

LOL that's got to do with server rules made by the individuals hosting, nothing to do with the mods, and stuff being missing is a result of having different versions of whatever mod being used by the server.

I never said it did.

But after finally navigating the intructions, download sites and running an

unnessarely user unfriendly piece of software to get ACE installed thats what I was faced with and no clear explanation as to why I couldn't fly a chopper.

I wasn't the only one, player after player joined, running around from vehicle

to vehicle trying to play but were prevented from even reaching the battle

most just gave up because the ones flying refused to answer anything

or gave obscure answers. Go this site, register... blah blah blah

There are so many stumbling blocks put in your way it's no big surprise

so many people give up.

I was simply too tired from installing ACE to jump through the hoops

to get permission to fly a chopper.

As for there being plenty of vanilla servers. Sure there are

but their mixed in with the dozens and dozens of others running mods and addons.

Bohemia needs people who can take a look at the game

and come up with some solutions to make it less intimidating

without neutering the core of the game itself. a Realistic sim.

If the engineers who invent and design HDTV's wrote the manuals

and the onscreen display for controlling them chances are very few people would buy them because they'd be a nightmare to operate.

Cars are extremely sophisticated machines with multiple computers

but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to operate one

Why? Because car companies have people who's job it is to make

them easy to use for anyone.

Edited February 24, 2010 by jblackrupert

[sbsmac 0]

I tend to find myself agreeing with galzohar and whisper on this. The game could be made a lot more user-friendly. Come on BIS, it's 2010, windows auto-updates, my web-browser auto-updates, most of the applications I use make a passable job of solving my problems for me rather than presenting me with new ones, I'm sure a bit of time spent on this sort of stuff would reap rewards. (Just think of the reviews for OA when journalists discover that they can _painlessly_ connect to servers running more user-made content than they had ever imagined.)

Just noticed jblackrupert's post which is spot on. I like to say at work that if programmers built TV's you'd have controls to tweak the scan-frequency, adjust the aspect ratio of the top-left quarter of the display, switch every 3rd pixel to inverse video and flip the display upside down on tuesdays but that it would take 3 hours just to tune in to BBC1. Usability is an art and it's hard.

[An Fiach 10]

:j:

BIS is making this game open enough for ACE & such to exist

It's one of the major selling point of the title. Of course they have to care about custom content, they have capitalized on it for years now!

But you still didn't answer the question : What would be the problem in implementing this auto-downlad system?

Aside from the issues it would cause on the servers and the potential for unsuspecting people to download viruses there is also the fact that there are many mods that require an individual to do editing on the client side for it to operate.

I don't exactly have a problem with the concept but the idea that a person wanting to use 3rd party content finds it too inconvenient to understand what they are installing and how it works/changes their game just sends me for a loop, it's like buying turbo tax and expecting it to enter the correct info for you without you having to type. Custom content is a MAJOR selling point to those already familiar with it since we already expect the campaign to be mediocre at best and for online modes that ship with the game to be a waste of time. The way you want them to care about custom content, you'll be wanting them to regulate it too so that nobody downloads a crappy mod and is disappointed.

---------- Post added at 06:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:14 PM ----------

I never said it did.

But after finally navigating the intructions, download sites and running an

unnessarely user unfriendly piece of software to get ACE installed thats what I was faced with and no clear explanation as to why I couldn't fly a chopper.

I wasn't the only one, player after player joined, running around from vehicle

to vehicle trying to play but were prevented from even reaching the battle

most just gave up because the ones flying refused to answer anything

or gave obscure answers. Go this site, register... blah blah blah

There are so many stumbling blocks put in your way it's no big surprise

so many people give up.

I was simply too tired from installing ACE to jump through the hoops

to get permission to fly a chopper.

As for there being plenty of vanilla servers. Sure there are

but their mixed in with the dozens and dozens of others running mods and addons.

Bohemia needs people who can take a look at the game

and come up with some solutions to make it less intimidating

without neutering the core of the game itself. a Realistic sim.

If the engineers who invent and design HDTV's wrote the manuals

and the onscreen display for controlling them chances are very few people would buy them because they'd be a nightmare to operate.

Cars are extremely sophisticated machines with multiple computers

but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to operate one

Why? Because car companies have people who's job it is to make

them easy to use for anyone.

Except you have to be trained to drive a car, right? So far they haven't released a car that drives for you. Nevermind customizing one.

Sure, I can see being annoyed at not being allowed to fly, but everyone is familiar with servers having rules about one thing or another, that isn't a stumbling block for the game, neither is installing ACE which is a 3rd party mod and is also still in Beta, which anyone would know after a few minutes of reading.

I agree that there are things that could be improved and streamlined, but they can only go so far. I've seen a ton of people complain about user made missions because they were complex and the player didn't know where to start. They need to make some solid stuff that comes with the game right out of the box, but beyond that, who is gonna hold your (not you specifically) hand when you log on to a server like that. Sounds like you were on a Domination server that has a mobile spawn unit, so likely people were quite able to get to the fight, just didn't know how. If you couldn't get any help you weren't on a good server with good people, that's a fact of life in every game.

[dmarkwick 261]

I never said it did.

But after finally navigating the intructions, download sites and running an

unnessarely user unfriendly piece of software to get ACE installed thats what I was faced with and no clear explanation as to why I couldn't fly a chopper.

I don't believe it is ACE that prevents you from driving/piloting vehicles, but specific mission conditions.

Cars are extremely sophisticated machines with multiple computers

but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to operate one

Why? Because car companies have people who's job it is to make

them easy to use for anyone.

I agree with the notion that if you can get into a chopper as a pilot, then the assumption is that you can fly it and so the ingame helos are *fairly* simple game vehicles, like all the others. In the same fashion I assume that medics know how to heal without the gamer needing to have had medical training, and engineers can disable mines without the player knowing whether to snip red or black :D There's always some room for improvements etc, but generally the behavior you've described is mission specific.

[Defunkt 431]

Cars are extremely sophisticated machines with multiple computers

but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to operate one

Why? Because car companies have people who's job it is to make

them easy to use for anyone.

No, because cars fulfil a very finite purpose, the correct analogy would be car to gaming console. The general purpose personal computer is something quite different.

[Bulldogs 10]

That's the black box idea. Any device that you can succesfully operate without knowing how it operates is considered a black box. While there is a vast difference between the car and the computer, both are Black Box's because you don't need to know that much about a computer other than point and click. People don't need to know how to tweak the heck out of a computer just to use it.

[Defunkt 431]

Rubbish, the entire point of a personal computer is that it can be programmed. The car and the gaming console are black boxes and you don't get the option to run either far out of their factory spec.

[dmarkwick 261]

No, because cars fulfil a very finite purpose, the correct analogy would be car to gaming console. The general purpose personal computer is something quite different.

I don't think the scope of functionality is the deciding analogy factor :) only the notion that you don't need to know HOW it works in order to actually use it.

---------- Post added at 02:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:20 AM ----------

Rubbish, the entire point of a personal computer is that it can be programmed. The car and the gaming console are black boxes and you don't get the option to run either far out of their factory spec.

To be fair, you can change a car around, tweak it, beef it up, make it more, or less, than it was. You don't NEED to know how it works, but for those who do, it can always be changed (or programmed ;))

[Defunkt 431]

Your logic is spurious, any black box can be altered given sufficient technical ability but it doesn't then follow that anything that is designed to be altered (i.e. a PC) is then (or should also be) a black box.

[dmarkwick 261]

Your logic is spurious, any black box can be altered given sufficient technical ability but it doesn't then follow that anything that is designed to be altered (i.e. a PC) is then (or should also be) a black box.

Well, my logic is usually pretty good :) and I don't know that a PC is specifically designed to be altered, it's designed to be flexible. As an example: almost everybody I know who has a PC, does not program on it, they simply use it. Almost everyone I know who has a car, does not tinker with it, they simply use it.

In both cases, no knowledge is needed beyond the knowledge to use it. However, as this seems to me to be a rather senseless point to make in the subject of the thread, I'll leave it for each reader to make his own judgment ;)

[Defunkt 431]

It may be that the people you know make similarly limited use of their car and their computer but it doesn't then follow that the purposes of both car and computer are similarly limited.

Do people really imagine that an auto-download manager would actually make life significantly easier for new players at this moment in time? Unless it has some sort of differential patching built-in they'll be prompted to download around 1+GB of ACE mod about 3 times a week (assuming the server-op has bothered to maintain a redirect and doesn't just turn downloading off). And then unless BIS also add some sort of mod-specified in-game key-binding system they'll be stuck with each mod's default (hopefully not conflicting) key-bindings and settings. That said it won't matter because they won't have any idea what functions ACE actually has because, well, life is so simple now they don't need to find out anything at all about it. Just seems a little convenient to blame BIS, good things are sometimes complex and often require an investment.

[Binkowski 26]

I find stock ArmA rather enjoyable.

[dmarkwick 261]

It may be that the people you know make similarly limited use of their car and their computer but it doesn't then follow that the purposes of both car and computer are similarly limited.

*shrug*

I'm not saying they are. I'm just saying that scope of functionality doesn't exclude it's black box status. That would be like saying a car is not a black box item because it has more uses than a microwave oven. To be more clear:

the entire point of a personal computer is that it can be programmed.

I highlighted what I hope is a self-explanatory detail, can be, not must be. (And I would take exception to the notion of "entire point" too, but that's another detail ;)) As mentioned, most people simply use PCs, and that is how they're designed.

[johncage 30]

the only way for this game to become more popular is to become the garbage that the big corporations like ubsoft and ea are pushing out.

50 dollar games that are over in 5 hours, have zero replay value and are designed for the braindead consumers(who compose 80 percent of the game market).

hopefully arma 2 stays exclusive and pure. don't go the way of ofp2 with codemaster. what a disaster that was.

[Defunkt 431]

I'm not saying they are. I'm just saying that scope of functionality doesn't exclude it's black box status.

Every time you install a software package you are re-programming and re-purposing your computer. I frankly find it hard to imagine a more mutable or configurable piece of technology and if that alone isn't the antithesis of what a 'black box' is we're very obviously debating two utterly different concepts. One of us obviously misunderstands the accepted meaning of the term.

[dmarkwick 261]

Every time you install a software package you are re-programming and re-purposing your computer.

Every time you install a software package you are using your PC in a way that doesn't necessitate you knowing how it's being done. You insert a disk, you follow instructions, you use the installed software.

I frankly find it hard to imagine a more mutable or configurable piece of technology

I frankly find it hard to imagine how such a complex activity could be made simpler by the OS and the install wizard.

and if that alone isn't the antithesis of what a 'black box' is we're very obviously debating two utterly different concepts. One of us obviously misunderstands the accepted meaning of the term.

Certainly :)