ARMA 2's player movement "feel"

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Clunky... You should check out Armed Assault 1 for fluid motion. :D

ArmA 2 is a major improvement, although I'd prefer if reloading was done while walking, not running.

I get the impression that Op Arrowhead will be a pleasant surprise in this field.

[NeMeSiS 11]

I get the impression that Op Arrowhead will be a pleasant surprise in this field.

From what?

[klycxup 10]

The movement feels clunky. It is definitely improved over arma 1 though. Still improvement's always nice

[Logan9773 10]

The movement is really bad. Its why I never play this game anymore. The flat out run feels ok, but that's because its a flat out run. You don't have much control in a flat out sprint. But the game needs a jog, and a realistic walk. The player also lurches at low speeds like a drunken sailor blended with Frankenstein's monster. It makes CQB impossible. Seeing as Bohemia hasn't even tried to correct this, it seems they have lost all interest in this game. Probably think they have made their money, so why bother.

[Zipper5 74]

You obviously don't know how BIS operate. ;)

If animations make a game entirely unplayable for you then you're in the wrong gaming genre anyways.

[Logan9773 10]

Ah, stupidity, stubbornness, and the inability to admit when your wrong. The three things that end up killing a company in the end. If your game is so great, then why are only a handful playing it online? And from what I've seen, they aren't even really playing. Just messing around.

It's not just the walking movement, and the lack of jog. For some reason beyond me, the player just acts like he's plain drunk at times. Whatever animation is happening, it becomes uncontrollable. You aim for a door while running down the stairs and miss it by two feet. This doesn't happen on any other game I've ever played. And I've been playing FPS for yearrsss. And while were at it, a lot of times your weapon is forced down, when in real life you would have kept it up. The jerky up, down, up, down of your weapon as you move is a mess. Then theirs the binoculars which blind you when you lower them from your eyes, blocking your vision. This game is a beta at best. Lots of tweaking and work needed.

And I tell you this as a customer.

Edited March 14, 2011 by Logan9773

[rangerpl 13]

May I also recommend this?

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=12540

And what do you mean lack of jog? You have three speeds whilst on foot... walking (you can aim), jog (you hold your weapon pointed down) and sprint (you run like hell's chasing you, waving your gun around)

Edit: Everyone's playing Operation Arrowhead now, and if you don't have that, perhaps you need to buy it and update?

Edited March 14, 2011 by RangerPL

[Logan9773 10]

I have that now. It doesn't do anything to stop the "drunkeness". Nice try, but its going to take more than some tweaking to clear that up. Something wrong in the animations, no doubt.

[Defunkt 431]

You aim for a door while running down the stairs and miss it by two feet.

Hmm... I dunno, maybe try walking?

This doesn't happen on any other game I've ever played. And I've been playing FPS for yearrsss.

Like the man said, you seem to have wandered out of your preferred genre. I doubt you'll find it hard to make your way back, gaming is littered with those floating-gun-and-viewpoint-gliding-around-on-roller-skates shooters.

[Logan9773 10]

Please, I can run down steps and go through a door. The arma character acts like he's drunk or something. And no one is a fan of Quake 3 ice skating. As for my genre, I spent 2 years off an on learning how to fly the hell out of DCS' Ka-50. So yeah, I'm in my "genre". Realism. Unfortunately, Arma hasn't quite made it there yet. Don't get me started on just how wrong the flight sim is in this game. But that's another topic entirely, and I'm willing to ignore it to concentrate on the infantry aspect. Movement in particular, since that's whats killing it. Looks like some of your customers aren't happy with it, about 70% so far. But it looks like your keen on ignoring it.

[Defunkt 431]

Please, I can run down steps and go through a door.

Please, do us all a favour and try that at home.

[Zipper5 74]

Ah, stupidity, stubbornness, and the inability to admit when your wrong. The three things that end up killing a company in the end. If your game is so great, then why are only a handful playing it online? And from what I've seen, they aren't even really playing. Just messing around.

I'm a volunteer moderator, therefore it's not "my game".

The reason so few play it online is not only because of the animations, it's also because there's so little variety in mission choices and the only way to get such variety is to join a clan, which most won't be willing to do for various reasons. Sure, a better animation system may bring more to the game, but really only in the competitive multiplayer scene I would think.

It's not just the walking movement, and the lack of jog. For some reason beyond me, the player just acts like he's plain drunk at times. Whatever animation is happening, it becomes uncontrollable. You aim for a door while running down the stairs and miss it by two feet. This doesn't happen on any other game I've ever played.

What? Press W, you're jogging. Double tap left shift and then press W, you're walking. Missing your target while walking? Aim better or, you know, stop walking. :p

And while were at it, a lot of times your weapon is forced down, when in real life you would have kept it up. The jerky up, down, up, down of your weapon as you move is a mess.

Sorry, but I've been playing this game since its release and the only two times I see my gun forced down is when I view the map (and this is an intentional design choice) or when I sprint from the crouched position (this is a bug, but it's really not that hard to avoid).

Then theirs the binoculars which blind you when you lower them from your eyes, blocking your vision. This game is a beta at best. Lots of tweaking and work needed.

Are you playing with mods or something? Pressing B brings up the binoculars, pressing B again puts them away. I don't see any point in which it blocks my vision unless you mean for that split half a second that the binocular object is visible in first person as you bring them up and put them away.

I'm not denying there's things wrong with the game, especially not in regards to the animation system, but what you're saying is wrong with the game simply sounds like inexperience. The animations, though not flawless, are not uncontrollable and as I said, I've been playing this game since launch, and ArmA and OFP before it, in both competitive and cooperative MP environments.

So by your definition, animation troubles force the game into a beta state? :confused:

Edited March 14, 2011 by Zipper5

[max power 21]

Ah, stupidity, stubbornness, and the inability to admit when your wrong. The three things that end up killing a company in the end. If your game is so great, then why are only a handful playing it online? And from what I've seen, they aren't even really playing. Just messing around.

By this logic, the simulator genre as a whole isn't any good. Sometimes people make things because they want to. If BIS is sustainable (and growing like made like they seem to be) and they are able to do what they want to, I say they are living the dream. I wonder why you think anyone in this forum is going to be sympathetic to your argument that good games sell billions, or that thousands of teenagers calling each other newbs and faggots online equals a good product. This style of game has had avid fans for 10 years, and has a community that's growing. Many bad games have sold well, and have even been quite popular for like 5 months. You've registered your valuable opinion, as a customer, that's awesome. If you're lucky, BIS might acknowledge your complaints and maybe even agree. The fact of the matter is, apparently they haven't found a suitable replacement technology for the one they currently use, or else, if they thought it would somehow make ArmA sell a quadrillion copies, they would have used it. If you are proposing for that they to move to a model-nailed-to-a-floating-camera like in most FPS's, possibly you might have to accept the fact that they reject your input.

[.kju 3241]

Check this guide Logan: Game configuration [PvPscene]

[metalcraze 290]

Please, I can run down steps and go through a door.

Just remember to put at least 20 kgs on your back so when you will hit the wall after running downstairs the additional punch will help you make a reality check.

The arma character acts like he's drunk or something

So you keep repeating this crap but can't say what's so drunk about it?

And give us an example of a game where character isn't "drunk" and doesn't do ice-skating

As for my genre, I spent 2 years off an on learning how to fly the hell out of DCS' Ka-50

You are so hardcore, bro. Maybe you will learn to play ArmA2 as well?

[cartier90 0]

The percentage of people who play Sims is probably directly correlated to intelligence. Im sure there is a Bell curve out there showing gaming habit distribution. Sims require patience, some considerable thinking and planning. I suppose its all down to what you grew up with.

What a good number of us dont realise is that my (our?) generation, brought up on PC sims , accept and even expect this complexity - to us COD et al seem as shallow and superficial as Sims like ARMA do to younger or more casual gamers.

Expectations are hard wired into a lot of us and a gamer today demands the 'bug free' and fluid movement of FPS games as a matter of course without realising that Sims model real life which is certainly not as 'smooth' as many games portray. Remember Militaries around the world use VBS , dont expect its retail cousin to be any less 'serious'.

.

Edited March 14, 2011 by cartier90

[NoRailgunner 0]

Questions are:

Do BIS developers/designers/animators know how fast/slow one can be in specific combat conditions?

Is BIS able to capture these motions and implement them into their game(s)?

[.kju 3241]

MoCap

[PuFu 4599]

Questions are:

Do BIS developers/designers/animators know how fast/slow one can be in specific combat conditions?

Is BIS able to capture these motions and implement them into their game(s)?

One can capture/create an animation, then speed it up or slow it down (depends on the amount of frames used in capturing the animation, even though you can easily adjust the frame number between the key frames)

Edited March 14, 2011 by PuFu

[NoRailgunner 0]

@PvPscene thats just a info about BIS in-house MoCap options for their game/film developments + projects. It doesn't say anything what kind of combat animations are possible in A2+OA or why BIS didn't made more authentic ones...

@PuFu so its basically more an engine/optimization thingy? Something time consuming - to find the "best"/least common denominator for most players?

[Defunkt 431]

It doesn't say anything what kind of combat animations are possible in A2+OA or why BIS didn't made more authentic ones...

Anything is possible it's just a matter of time and resource. Common sense suggests to me that if you've got 100 developers, 20 weapons and 0 vehicles you can spend a good long time over each of those 20 weapon animations. If you've got 20 developers, 100 weapons and 100 vehicles... not so much.

[PuFu 4599]

@PuFu so its basically more an engine/optimization thingy? Something time consuming - to find the "best"/least common denominator for most players?

Animations are by default pretty time consuming. Even mocap anims needs to be manually cleaned and adjusted most of the time (depends on the cam resolution of the studio etc etc). It is a matter of time spent on it. Obviously since this is a game, there needs to be a common denominator, which is hard to nail, i'll give that to bis. still, the speed of certain transitions are easily adjusted.

PLUS, the game allows custom reload animations and so forth (note that the anim of the player is one thing, and each weapon would need to be adjusted to that one to...fit). In most of the other games where the 1st view is only a floating cam, both animations (hands/player and weapon) are done simultaneously.

[zeep 3]

OT. I must say i'm disappointed the mod (zipper) locked the other thread. Granted the discussion was vivid, but it was vivid for a reason. It's a touchy subject. There were good arguments made and things got discussed. Now to close the thread because of some trolling, or because you think other people can't read past the "trol" bits and actually see a good discussion in the background is like saying, you all are too stupid to see the difference (between reacting emotionally and intelligently).

OT/

What always struck me as remarkable was that the coders of this game think it's ok like this. It seems to me all they do is order some bots around, get in cars/heli's/etc and play the game that way. I really think the player movement needs a lot more work.

I just can't feel 'connected' to the player and/or immersed because of the clunky movement. I am not my animation in real life. I can control my body without spasms. But in arma i'm a camel walking around clunky.

Sum it up, arma's player movement = immersion breaker.

[JojoTheSlayer 35]

Would I like to see it improved? Yes.

Would I like to see it "improved" to Cod like movement? No!

As long as its realistic and the minor faults of vanilla is improved I am okay with it in regards to a official thing. Mods can do whatever they want of course, but personally I wouldnt want super human movement like most fps games.

The things I dont like are some of the "Hollywood" like death animations like the character leans backwards slowly then falls to the ground. That and some of the animation loops. Like selecting binos, kneeling and he goes to the weapon, then back to the binos for no particular reason etc.

[Logan9773 10]

Too many problems. I was just playing it for a while.

1. No movement mode in between run and walk.

2. Gun instantly ( light speed ) whips up and down as you sprint and stop. Looks shitty.

3. Lowering your binocs completely blocks your view.

4. As you walk while sighted, gun unrealistically saws back and forth in front of you. Very annoying.

5. And many, many more, obvious problems. I've started calling my character Mr. Roboto.

But I get the bad feeling BIS is NEVER going to try to correct any of this. How long ago was this game released? And they just keep coming out with addons that don't correct anything already released? Its a shame. A great sim. Just needs to be tweaked.

---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 PM ----------

That and some of the animation loops. Like selecting binos, kneeling and he goes to the weapon, then back to the binos for no particular reason etc.[/i]

Thanks! Forgot that one. Added to the list!

---------- Post added at 09:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 PM ----------

Would I like to see it improved? Yes.

Would I like to see it "improved" to Cod like movement? No!

Agreed. No one wants to see COD / Quake 3 ice skating. But your character acting like he's drunk at times and not being able to steer through a door at a run, missing it by two feet and smashing into the wall, doesn't make sense either. Wow, if I ran like that in confined places, I'd be dead by now. Its hard to say exactly what is wrong at times, but I would expect a company to put out something better movement wise than this.

---------- Post added at 09:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 PM ----------

What always struck me as remarkable was that the coders of this game think it's ok like this.

And I think herein lies the problem.

This is a great sim, but it needs work.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Logan9773