A strange flickering on distant objects, mainly buildings.

[thedudesam 10]

The game as well all know looks fantasic, id even say its untouchable in the graphics department currently.

But something is really bugging me, and it's this flickering on distant buildings/objects (See youtube video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3xsbtvHtu0

I have an XFX 4870 , and other than this i have no other graphical issues, the game looks fantastic. Especially when the time is set to 6am wow :eek: puts crisis to shame.

[kridian 33]

Oh yeah. I believe this only happens with ATI video cards. I get it.

[bensdale 0]

+1 with nvidia gtx 275

i think this is the z fighting problem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-fighting .

Pls make a ticket on the Community Issue Tracker http://dev-heaven.net/projects/cis/issues?set_filter=1

[thedudesam 10]

Bah that's dissapointing, hopefully they will fix it.

[Gera_CCT 12]

I gont this too, never saw before, dont know if it is the gpu driver 9.12 or patch 1.05

[KeyCat 131]

Oh yeah. I believe this only happens with ATI video cards. I get it.

It's the old "Z-fighting issue" and been there (more or less) since the OFP days and it happens on both ATI and nVidia graphics cards.

I hope BIS can fix (or at least improve) this but I'm not holding my breath anymore ;)

I gont this too, never saw before, dont know if it is the gpu driver 9.12 or patch 1.05

@Geraldus: Are you 100% sure, maybe you just didn't noticed it before since I had it since 1.00? It's most notable when looking at distance objects like houses etc, with binocs and/or scoped weapons.

If you are 100% positive you didn't had it before (and can repro that) I would sure like to know your setup/settings...

/KC

Edited December 30, 2009 by KeyCat

[[aps]gnat 28]

Yeh, think I've always seen this Z-Fighting issue since at least ArmAI, using NVidia or ATI.

..... got used to it over time ;)

[bensdale 0]

i found a similar ticket on the A2 Community Issue Tracker.

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/1771

vote for it!

@thedudesam

i add your youtube video on the ticket. ok?

[thedudesam 10]

i found a similar ticket on the A2 Community Issue Tracker.

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/1771

vote for it!

@thedudesam

i add your youtube video on the ticket. ok?

Yes that's fine, anything to get this fixed. I voted also.

EDIT: Wow this was added 200 or so days ago and still no fix :S that doesn't look good.

Edited December 30, 2009 by thedudesam

[Dwarden 1124]

ahm , z-fighting ... it's real pain with optics

[Stargun 10]

Any news on eliminating this massive bug? It's a total immersion-killer which can make newcomers to not use ArmA II. Not a single AAA class FPS have this bug at this level nowadays, so it's a really shame...

When I played the single player campaign when I had to use the laser designator to designate buildings and other targets from the peak at Chernogorsk I became really disappointed. The building flickered like hell, and I first thought this can't be a finished and published game...

These kind of bugs should be sorted out well before the ALPHA test phase, not at the BETA test nor the FINAL PRODUCT! What the hell?! :mad:

[trickster1982 10]

Its been present since Flashpoint, yes its a bit annoying but dont let it ruin the game for you. Just got to accept the limitations of technology at present & enjoy the massive achievement that the game is.

[mrcash2009 0]

These kind of bugs should be sorted out well before the ALPHA test phase, not at the BETA test nor the FINAL PRODUCT! What the hell?!

Well i have had a an older nvidia card and now a gtx260 and drivers updated over a year or so and this is normal for me with arma1 & arma2 (from Nov 2007 up to present day) .. ive never known much of a difference.

Always had shimmer and those effects on certain textures when zoomed in over long distance since day one.

Its not uncommon and to me I have never seen it as a bug but a graphics artifact based on draw distance, doubt they will have some magical "fix" for it to be honest.

Edited January 12, 2010 by mrcash2009

[Nazul 10]

I think of it as the moving environment. When the flicker is on windows, which is common, i think of it as curtains moving in the wind.

You get used to it.

[Stargun 10]

Actually this kind of z-fighting can be first seen in BF2 years ago, but as I remember it has been fixed, so I did not notice it in BF2142 even when using scoped weapons.

I know, that MW and now MW2 is NOT comparable to ArmA II in the terms of draw distance, but in those engines not a single z-fighting could be seen even when using scoped weapons.

Personally I can't mention any other game nowadays where z-fighting became such obvious as in ArmA II. You can be ANYWHERE in the map while looking at ANY distant house or a multi-textured ruin with a binocular or scoped rifle to see the "war of pixels".

And I think it's not a good idea that the gamers trying to help BI NOT TO SOLVE this problem by posting such responses like the previous 2-3. I don't want to get used to this bug, it's NOT NORMAL to have this bug. It should be solved. I get used to the popping trees at the horizon while flying, but this z-fighting is really a shame.

[Alex72 1]

Personally I can't mention any other game nowadays where z-fighting became such obvious as in ArmA II

What games can you see as far as ARMA in - with the same amount of complexity and availability (as in being able to move everywhere and enter buildings etc all over the map?

Ofcourse it would be nice to get it fixed but as stated it has been here sine the beginning. That might indicate that it is not so easy to get rid of it.

[cjph 0]

This used to bug me in Arma1 and Arma2, but as many have said you get used to it. I saw a massive improvement moving from an Nvidia 8800GTS to an ATi 4890, which allowed me to change most settings from medium to high. Not completely cured, but it did seem to make a bid difference (not sure if the higher performance or bigger memory helps, or simply the increased settings).

[Stargun 10]

I think this problem is not related to the visibitity range nor the area of the whole environment. This is simply a broken implementation of placing decals (multi textures) over selected faces where the distance between the textures of coplanar faces is too small and cause z-fighting when seen from a distance.

The strange thing is that it not only happens on such houses where you can enter the interior, but also on buildings where you can't get inside.

I'm using Win7 and HD4890, but still can't set proper display setting to eliminate this problem. I have a native screen resolution of 1680x1050, and normally using this with the same rendering resolution (100% fillrate). But I even tried to use 200% fillrate with still no luck. I tried every possible setting at filtering, texture quality and video memory, but nothing happened.

It would be nice to know if ArmA using negative LOD for the textures, because maybe I should set negative LOD clamp at the video driver. Unfortunately AMD drivers don't allow to set negative LOD clamp, it only can be solved through Ati Tray Tools which is a pain under Win7. Nvidia users can set this parameter directly from the driver, so a feedback would be nice from them.

BTW the visibility range can be really huge in ArmA, but drawing of the detail objects in this world is rather limited. It's useless to set 10km visibility range, while the environment and object details both set at maximum and having the objects drawn at the range of only 3-4 km. But this is another story.

As a bottomline I think this is a rather serious error, and should be corrected.

This would be really nice just to know the opinion of the devs. But as I read all of the posts no one replied for this bug from BIS yet.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Stargun

[vostov 10]

ahm , z-fighting ... it's real pain with optics

No fix possible? I saw in a post in the Arma1 forums that there was some way to scaling the z-buffer to where it could counter this.

This is a huge problem for this game. It canceled out alot of the positive graphical aspects when you look at flickering terrain in the distance.

[Rexxenexx 0]

I brought it up a long time ago. I'll never get used to it. I think increasing precision might kill FPS that's why they don't do it. I could be wrong.

[Stargun 10]

... It canceled out alot of the positive graphical aspects when you look at flickering terrain in the distance.

Exactly. And I'm getting angry because still no one replied neither to this post, nor this other thread from BIS yet.

IMHO using any optics in this game should treated specially. Btw. I'd like to see that the view distance increasing instantly when looking through an optics (like switching from 3000 m normal view distance to 10000 m and back). This could be feasible, because the FoV is really narrow when using optics, so the framerate could be high even with maximum view distance.

I think maybe the z-buffer scaling could be treated similarly when using optics to eliminate the z-fighting issue.

[[aps]gnat 28]

Any news on eliminating this massive bug?

I hardly think this is a "massive bug" in the scheme of things.

Sure its a bit optically annoying, but a lot less annoying than say LOD morphing issues.

.... and even the 1000 post people here don't get personal answers from BIS ;)

[Stargun 10]

Gnat;1554586']...Sure its a bit optically annoying' date=' but a lot less annoying than say LOD morphing issues.[/quote']

Maybe You're right. Let's put it in this way: the engine of ArmA II is a #&@#&@#&@# #Ä@#@! to be honest. :mad:

The rendered image quality is breathtaking, but personally I don't want to use a game for making screenshots. It's for using as a GAME.

And You're right, the z-fighting is NOTHING compared to what I saw yesterday in Chernarus: standing on the rooftop of one of the tallest buildings in the center of Chernarus I user a sniper scope to examine the highly detailed textures of the buildings in the distance. After then I switched back to non scoped view and quickly turned around. And it literally took 3-4 SECONDS (!:eek:) for the buildings to appear and even the ghillie suit texture on the rifle looked like 4-5 BOXES before the engine managed to load all the needed textures. OMG, it's a piece of .... :mad:

And I'm using Q8200@3 Ghz, 4GB RAM, Win7 64 bit, HD4890, 1680x1050. It's a shame.

Maybe I don't have 1000s of posts on this forum, but I'm a paying customer of BIS. And if everything will go in this way that people trying to "familiarize" with the engine without any "personal" answer from BIS then I will NOT be a returning customer.

Or to be precise I will: I will RETURN this game to have a massive REFUND.

I'm getting tired of spending countless hours for setting the possible graphics settings to eliminate all of this bugs. Maybe it does not worth it. I'm sorry, it was a good try, BIS! :(

[kridian 33]

Yeah, the engine is showing its age. I'd love to see it upgraded to dx10 & a 64bit exe.

[Nazul 10]

Maybe You're right. Let's put it in this way: the engine of ArmA II is a #&@#&@#&@# #Ä@#@! to be honest. :mad:

The rendered image quality is breathtaking, but personally I don't want to use a game for making screenshots. It's for using as a GAME.

And You're right, the z-fighting is NOTHING compared to what I saw yesterday in Chernarus: standing on the rooftop of one of the tallest buildings in the center of Chernarus I user a sniper scope to examine the highly detailed textures of the buildings in the distance. After then I switched back to non scoped view and quickly turned around. And it literally took 3-4 SECONDS (!:eek:) for the buildings to appear and even the ghillie suit texture on the rifle looked like 4-5 BOXES before the engine managed to load all the needed textures. OMG, it's a piece of .... :mad:

And I'm using Q8200@3 Ghz, 4GB RAM, Win7 64 bit, HD4890, 1680x1050. It's a shame.

Maybe I don't have 1000s of posts on this forum, but I'm a paying customer of BIS. And if everything will go in this way that people trying to "familiarize" with the engine without any "personal" answer from BIS then I will NOT be a returning customer.

Or to be precise I will: I will RETURN this game to have a massive REFUND.

I'm getting tired of spending countless hours for setting the possible graphics settings to eliminate all of this bugs. Maybe it does not worth it. I'm sorry, it was a good try, BIS! :(

Try PROPER game tweaks to ease some of this LOD switching.

http://dev-heaven.net/projects/show/proper-projects

Theres a thread in the 'addon/mods complete" subsection of this forum.