Group Link 4 Special FX Edition

[dmarkwick 261]

Great feature list for the next update. Nice to see you managed to figure out how to get the enemy to play dead :cool: I'll be packing some extra ammo in the future, for sure :D

So that you don't run out of ideas, I've thought of something new

I'm using JTD Fire and Smoke addon. Great stuff, but the AI tends to ignore the spreding fires and tries to walk through them, getting burned. DMaverick might be able to solve this himself, but maybe you could try it out too in the following way:

Can you try to make both friendly units (except tanks, ofcourse) avoid burning flames? Not necessarily run away from them like headless chickens, but so that they don't stray too close to get burned.

Seeing GL4 try to guide AI through a dynamic JTD created forest fire spreading from several directions would make for interesting AI test in general, by the way. If you ever manage to collect the Turing price with that, I expect you to mention my humble contribution ;)

Heh, well, to help you out a little SNKMAN, here's what's been discussed about this before.

The AI could do with a new feature, object, behavior, that makes them avoid certain areas. Almost as though there were a huge collision object around it and the AI need to go around. I might have experimented with such a huge object except that I'm certain it would be the wrong implementation, it would stop bullets and vehicles etc, but the behavior is what we're after.

The uses for such a behavior go beyond JTD Fire avoidance ;) we're also working on a mine placement system, and it would be very useful for AI to avoid certain areas if they think there's mines there. (Specifically the behavior would be attached to minefield signs.)

Edited January 26, 2010 by DMarkwick

[jasonnoguchi 11]

A few more suggestions hehehe, see if you could cramp some of them into the next release:

1.Currently, enemies that run out of ammo and cannot rearm just hide themselves and play hide and seek. That's really a waste of time. I just played one mission where the final 2 enemies ran out of ammo and cannot rearm just go prone and stay still. We had to go around the map looking for these two guys. My suggestion is that enemies who has no more ammo AND cannot rearm, should immediately and automatically surrender or run away in the opposite direction, not play hide and seek.

2. RPG enemies. I noticed that enemies with RPGs no longer waste RPG on human, which is very good but in the case where there are no vehicles on the friendly side, enemies with RPG should be given a small random chance of using the RPG on the players.

3. Lately, in my games, I noticed that suppressed enemies (enemies with the word "suppressed" on their debug markers... debug markers still cannot be turned off by the way. Commented it in the userconfig to no avail) are beginning to get up and run again... shouldn't they stay prone and suppressed behind cover?

4. Enemies on UAZ. As a sniper, I always take out the person manning the gun on UAZs first and then go for the other enemies. The funny thing is, the person driving the UAZ will continue to drive the UAZ like a stupid fool and not get on the gun to retaliate. In fact, it gets really funny when the UAZ driver is the last enemy left and he is still driving around aimlessly...hahahah... could you make the driver of UAZs switch to gunner position when their gunner dies? If not, then at least make them try to run over the players using the vehicles instead of driving around aimlessly. :)

5. Enemies do not get on static defenses when the last person manning that static defense dies. Don't know why. They will just run past the static defense like it doesn't exist. Enemies nearest to an empty static defense (or within convenient distance, say maybe, within 30m) should get on it.

6. Friendly vehicles are still friendly AI killers. They just run over friendlies like they don't exist. Could you make friendly vehicles stay at least 1 vehicle length away from friendly infantries?

Please don't get pissed off at me throwing out sooo many suggestions... I do so to help GL4 become even better (and to keep you busy! hahaha)

Edited January 26, 2010 by jasonnoguchi

[kroky 1]

@mrcash2009

@Kroky

Yes i did that yesterday. But the default initialize of the "High Command" features of Group Link 4 is limited to SP only!

Sorry, to repeat myself, but I simply love the way you are listening to your community and taking them seriously and implementing stuff requested by them. Thank you very much for implementing self initializing High command!

In the next community awards I will vote for you as the most valuable community member!

GL4 has grown to a Total Conversion Mod of the size of ACE2. I think BIS should take a deep look at the features you introduced. I think even Marek and Ondrej would be impressed.

Now you got me waiting very impatiently for the 1.1.75 version...will check regularly.

[jasonnoguchi 11]

in the next community awards i will vote for you as the most valuable community member!

me too!!!!

[snkman 351]

@dialektiikka

Great stuff, but the AI tends to ignore the spreding fires and tries to walk through them, getting burned.

Well yes of course i could do this but then you need some objects ( variables/positions ) created nearby the fire so you got something to check.

Particles ( Effects ) can't be checked for distance to any other object.

So first DMarkwick would need to create/add something nearby the fire which i could use to checked.

@DMarkwick

Please see my post above.

Yeah the idea with the mine field and signs sound nice. ;)

I was thinking of a Global Variable like C.B.A. which can be used by the whole community where specific informations are stored in and which every mod could check after they was created by any mod.

Same goes for D.A.C. such a Global Space Variable would be damn good to check several informations about different mods.

Just a thought and may hard to handle becouse project leaders would need to strictly share their informations toghetter.

Just something i'm thinking about since some time. :)

@jasonnoguchi

Should immediately and automatically surrender or run away in the opposite direction

Well the "Surrender" feature of Group Link 4 already use to check if a unit is able to fire. If not then it randomly will surrender.

You know this again is something which should not get a high priority.

How often enemy A.I. run out of ammo bevore they die?

Enemies with RPG should be given a small random chance of using the RPG on the players.

Hehe sorry but i don't think i would like to see any enemy A.I. fiering on me with a RPG. :)

[jasonnoguchi 11]

@SNKMAN, how about the UAZ driver suggestion?

[snkman 351]

@Kroky

Hehe thanks. Well i'm not hunting for any medal. It's just my hobby and if i can share my stuff with others and i can make others happy then i'm happy too.

That's all. :)

@jasonnoguchi

You really make my head explode one time. :D

Okay i have read all your suggestions and will bookmark your post so i can find it again.

But like i told currently my biggest target is to get the new Group Link 4 ( bug free ) version out bevore doing anything else.

Just give me some time and i will continue to improve Group Link 4. ;)

[jasonnoguchi 11]

@SNKMAN, hehehehe, just doing my job of keeping your head exploded! hehhhehehe . I play with GL4 at least 4 hours daily so I do have a ton of suggestions. :)

[snkman 351]

lol. :D

Yeah but think about it! If my head explode how can i script then? :p

Damn it better don't make it explode. :)

[jasonnoguchi 11]

@SNKMAN, hahahaha, ok, I will reserve some power for after your current release...hehehe... I love GL4 and you (no gay), thats why I spend so much time thinking about all these things. :) I don't do that for any other mods here in case you didn't noticed. :)

[NoRailgunner 0]

jasonnoguchi why dont you suggest these things for BIS to fix? Sometimes its better to have such things working in vanilla game! Addon/mod creators could create new stuff and dont waste time to make bugfixes. ;)

[jasonnoguchi 11]

@NoRailgunner, after having played both ArmA1 and ArmA2, I know BIS won't give a shit to what we say. Period. You can go feedback all you want to BIS (put up all the tickets at devheaven, waste your time and energy) and then wait 3 years for ArmA3 and then still these things will not be fixed, trust me. (seriously, I think you have been around long enough to know that too right?)

SNKMAN LISTENS, CARES and VERY QUICKLY gets it done. SNKMAN is a one man army. Works better and faster than BIS on these issues. :)

I don't want to give feedbacks that fall on deaf ears. I want to give feedbacks that very quickly translates into better gameplay and SNKMAN does exactly that.

HAIL SNKMAN!!!

Edited January 26, 2010 by jasonnoguchi

[dmarkwick 261]

Well yes of course i could do this but then you need some objects ( variables/positions ) created nearby the fire so you got something to check.

Particles ( Effects ) can't be checked for distance to any other object.

So first DMarkwick would need to create/add something nearby the fire which i could use to checked.

LOL I did use a per-fire object at one point, mostly for testing :D right now the only objects that are spawned are bird emitters and fire light & sound emitters. I wonder if you might be able to have an array of "danger objects" in a config that AI might avoid? Say in the form [objectClassName, distance] for each element? Similarly, it's opposite, an array of "interesting object" that the AI might find & decide to "inspect" (i.e. just walk toward). That way I could make the AI get suspicious of birds activity just like I do ;)

Great, great work BTW

Yeah the idea with the mine field and signs sound nice.

Yep I would just add that minefield sign to the "danger objects" array.

I was thinking of a Global Variable like C.B.A. which can be used by the whole community where specific informations are stored in and which every mod could check after they was created by any mod.

Same goes for D.A.C. such a Global Space Variable would be damn good to check several informations about different mods.

Just a thought and may hard to handle becouse project leaders would need to strictly share their informations toghetter.

Just something i'm thinking about since some time. :)

Have you created a feature request ticket at the CBA DH issues tracker? If not, you should :) someone with your AI standing would get listened to I'm sure ;)

[jasonnoguchi 11]

@JTDman, it would be insanely real if the enemies are put on alert everytime your birds fly! ahahhaa (by the way, JTD is a mod that I run by default since almost the first day I play arma2. :) ) Oh... but since even bunnies activate the birds, won't that kinda distract the enemy AI or activate them unnecessarily? (seriously, I really don't think bunnies should activate birds :( )

[froggyluv 2130]

Looks really nice SNKMAN!

Were you able to get enemy AI to search/clear the exact house that player or friendly AI are inhabiting if they are known to be in there rather than a random choosing?

[dmarkwick 261]

@JTDman, it would be insanely real if the enemies are put on alert everytime your birds fly! ahahhaa (by the way, JTD is a mod that I run by default since almost the first day I play arma2. :) ) Oh... but since even bunnies activate the birds, won't that kinda distract the enemy AI or activate them unnecessarily? (seriously, I really don't think bunnies should activate birds :( )

LOL, well, at the risk of a slight OT, I think it's important that the birds activity is not a foolproof enemy-detector for the player :) just an indication of suspicion ;)

[jasonnoguchi 11]

Looks really nice SNKMAN!

Were you able to get enemy AI to search/clear the exact house that player or friendly AI are inhabiting if they are known to be in there rather than a random choosing?

I think the enemy AI is already doing that. I was playing yesterday, hid inside one of the buildings and all the enemies came straight for my building.

@JTDman, yeah, you got a point there. Then lets not make the enemies busy over the birds as well... :(

[snkman 351]

@jasonnoguchi

I spend so much time thinking about all these things.

Yeah i already noticed that and your suggestions are really good so far.

NoRailgunner really is right in what he say.

I will not try to fix bugs made introduced by the engine ( B.I.S. ).

I know BIS won't give a shit to what we say. Period. You can go feedback all you want to BIS (put up all the tickets at devheaven, waste your time and energy) and then wait 3 years for ArmA3 and then still these things will not be fixed.

Yes sometimes that's the way it is.

But just have a look back in history:

O.F.P. was a damn really really greate kick ass game which had everything i was always dreaming about. It had many new features never seen bevore in any othe PC Game. It really was a groundbraking game.

ArmA 1 damn it... In the firt few weeks i was like oh cool it's funny...

But after just a few weeks of playing it i was really disapointed by ArmA 1.

It had many many bugs the atmosphere if you compare it to O.F.P. was equal to 0. So let's just forget about this game...

ArmA 2 well so far i'm really happy with this game.

it's a good mix between O.F.P. and ArmA 1 still it can't reach the atmosphere of O.F.P. by far but it's way better then ArmA 1 ever was.

The beta's also were a pretty nice idea. ( Hopefully we will see them again soon )

All the new stuff ( Functions, Modules, Scripting Commands and so on... ) comming with ArmA 2 is really really greate and gives the community a new way of how to make things working.

B.I.S. really isn't a very big company so just give them some time. ;)

@DMarkwick

I wonder if you might be able to have an array of "danger objects" in a config that AI might avoid?

For sure you just need a object which can be placed nearby each fire and then add it to a array and check this array bevore giving any move command to the A.I.

If A.I. is for example: closer then 100 meters to any object in the array then re-calculate the move command or simply don't let them move till the fire was burned down and the object was deleted from the array.

Have you created a feature request ticket at the CBA DH issues tracker?

Nope so far i don't have one.

Replaying to the main thread here keeps me busy enough. :)

[jasonnoguchi 11]

Before I start sounding like an ingrate, I am grateful to BIS for the ArmA series and regretted that I was with the ghost recon series (which was also great back then) more back then instead of OFP (guess its never too late). However, I also realised that there are things that BIS simply cannot put their hands on and that is what the community is here for. I am sure they see a lot of those things we do but to strike a balance between easy hardware requirements and playability really isn't easy and not making the game too "simulatey" in order to retain some of the "arcadey" crowd is a step BIS must take in order to market this to a wider audience. (and probably why many of our realism and simulation suggestions will not be heeded)

[snkman 351]

Yes well i really can feel B.I.S. in some points.

Just think about it.

I have to manage 1 thread with 3 - 5 ( sometimes 10 feature requests if you are around :) ) a day/week and sometimes i spend more time writing then coding.

Now B.I.S. got this whole big forum ( O.F.P. | ArmA 1 | ArmA 2 | PC | X-Box )

And there are ton's of new threads/posts every day about what need to be improved and what need to be changed.

If B.I.S. would take every request serously then they soon would feel like me just 1000 times harder. ( The head explosion thing. You remember? :) )

Haaa... I better don't think how the logistic of B.I.S. looks like. :p

Anyway i don't wanna to talk too much about B.I.S. and their game development interests.

B.I.S. has it own way and they will go this way anyway what you think or say ( write ) just let us hope they will stay on the right way like they did so far with ArmA 2.

Edited January 26, 2010 by SNKMAN

[jasonnoguchi 11]

@snkman, amen! :)

[kroky 1]

I have to manage 1 thread with 3 - 5 ( sometimes 10 feature requests if you are around ) a day/week and sometimes i spend more time writing then coding.

Oh no!

@jasonnoguchi

Please take a break from your good suggestions. Let the man work.

BTW. This is an interesting discussion going on here about features not implemented in games by BIS. I can understand BIS too. Still I was very disappointed that AI improvements and game features were introduced very slowly and there were very few since first days of OFP. Still we all agree that OFP/ArmA - sereies are best out there. Before OFP, I played a lot of FPS games. And there never have been games of this scale.

I am coming from the Delta Force game series. (The first military game with a completely free universe to explore and a high level of realism.) Had played of course Project IGI and Ghost Recon and SWAT series. (And a lot of games like HalfLife, MOHAA, COD)

But to this day ONLY ArmAII remains. People like SNKMAN (and other greats of scripting, like SOLUS) keep me hanging on to this game series for the last 8+ years.

Ok SNKMAN:

Here the features I would like to see in GL4: (because I miss them since I abandoned SLX)

- Movable boxes, static machine guns

- Loadable cargo into trucks, cars, APCs

- Ability to repair by engineers or crewmen of respective vehicles

- Ability to repair near garages on maps

- AI dragging wounded people

- some other things that would make your head explode so I terminate now.

Dont get distracted, and please continue coding GL4!

[jasonnoguchi 11]

hahaha ok guys, I promise to keep further suggestions until I have tested and played the coming version in full. :)

[snkman 351]

@Kroky

Yes true. There really isn't ( never was ) any other game that keeps me interested in like the B.I.S. games.

They really got something you can't find in any other game. ;)

Well i think you will never see any of the S.L.X. features in Group Link 4.

I don't know how they work exactly and i'm not a big fan of copy featurs from other projects into mine.

@jasonnoguchi

Don't worry feedabck is very welcome and without it i may would have to think about if it's worth spending all the time coding such a modification.

If i got time i really enjoy writing replys, explain things and discuze about features and suggestions.

Only thing is that i will not add anything new right now cuz i'm in the last testing phase right now.

[jasonnoguchi 11]

@SNKMAN, well, you are the man! :) I do agree that there is no point copying features. That time could be better applied to some of my suggestions! hahahaha! Just kidding! :) You rock and I will put in the equal time and effort playing it and feeding you with more of my suggestions. :)