I am very disapointed in bis's lack of sniping....

[Tales_From_Topographic_Oceans 0]

Let me clarify my most ambiguous post. It is relative depending on one's perspective. Sniping is FUN for me. I do not care how the recipient of my well-aimed shot thinks or feels. The military is a killing business. Some of you folks are way too sentimental and emotional to be carrying weapons---in the game of course. As soon as you let your emotions take over, you become an ineffective soldier. You must be abrasive. Sniping is a means to an end (editor's note: I am not a utilitarian).

[advocatexxx 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aculaud @ April 03 2002,04:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I dont care what anyone thinks, i just fealt i had to gripe about this and get this out of my system. This will be very contrary to everyone out there who thinks snipers are wimps who just go hide someplace. This is not true. snipers are a very indespensable aspect of warfare, as we (No, i dont shoot people from afar in real life, i was refering to us videogame snipers) can hit targets beyond the range of the common soldier that might be of some priority.

Aside from that, sniping is just plain fun for me, and everyone else who loves it as well, i'm sure.

I just fealt i had to voice my complaint about the lack of snipability in OFP. I was just playing around in the editor, trying to work on this mission i'm building, and it just got to me.

First off, i'm just going to say how much i hate how none off the bell towers that you can go in face anything worth sniping. What is the purpose of having bell towers that dont face anything interesting. And the bell towers that are actually at a good height and arent blocked by their roof are in accessable. I hate that.

Next, on Malden, theres maybe one good pirch, the rocks by lolisse, but thats about it. Everon, pretty much just the towns leading up to saint pierre. thats all. The Desert Island isnt even worth mentioning as far as this goes. Kolgujev has pretty much the only good sniping territory, and even this struggles for origionality quite a bit.

As far as rifles go, why the m-21? Its 1985 (in the game). We can have laser guided bombs that are capable of taking out 20 abrams in one strike, but we cant have a sniper rifle that isnt made out of wood? C'mon! why not at least the m-24? or the m-40? those were common in the days the game takes place, and did their jobs a hell of a lot better than the m-21. Hell, they were made to replace the damn thing. The dragunov, i actually dont have a problem with, as it was pretty much the main sniper rifle for Russia in that time.

And what about the power and accuracy of the sniper rifles? Iv shot guys up to four times before they die with these things. And it was a torso shot. I feel i should be able to kill with one shot to anywhere except limb shots. If i was actually shooting them in the arms instead, i could understand why they werent dying, but ballistics needs to be modeled a bit better for these weapons, so the shot actually goes where the cross hairs are zeroed.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeew.....................(deep breath)

Ok, i'll end with one of these:    and by saying that i am now done being fanatical. Reply if you wish, i dont really care.<span id='postcolor'>

Well since you complain that Flashpoint's terrain isn't always suitable for Sniping, nor the buildings there, I gotta tell ya, real life is exactly the same way.

Mother nature doesn't exactly tailor its terrain over millions of years while keeping in mind that one day a Sniper team may be seeking targets there. Same goes for the people who build towns.

Snipers take time in seeking the proper spot, they have a great deal of patience and keep on a constant move. It's not just about climbing a tower of Church and take out a whole Company while sitting like a duck.

Flashpoint is based on realism and that is why the terrain in it isn't one huge flat meadow with four hills positioned in the corners for Snipers to take advantage of.

Only complaint I have is regarding the Church towers. Whenever I manage to climb one I fall as soon as I move.

In response to a topic that has been included in this thread, whether Snipers are considered "wusses". Well, I can see why they could be perceived as such, but I can also see the opposite.

In modern battlefield the goal is to eliminate the enemy using any and all methods possible. This is somewhat of a different idealogy than what ancient warriors fought with. They believed in honor, in glory. When two great warriors met in a clash, others stayed away.

I can't see such things taking place today though.

Do I think Snipers are wusses ? Well there's just something about shooting a man in the back that gives me an "iffy" feeling. But feelings have no place in a battle.

[Aculaud 0]

its amazing. Everytime i dont expect anyone to reply to one of these, i come check it out the next day, and its got like 50 replys already.

Anyway, i know mother nature didnt have our kind in mind when she was busy sculpting the landscape, i was just really frustrated that BIS didnt either.

I was a sniper in Delta Force Land Warrior, back when i could actually play it (for some reason, it just stopped working in multi-player. i think its my internet location or something). And there, you deffinitely fear the snipers on the oposing team. also all the dickheads who never let up with their precious rocket launchers. But i usually always found myself on anti-sniper detail. And, quite frankly, i was good at what i did. That game keeps stats of every player that played the official servers, and i never once saw another sniper with as high of accuracy as i had (about 55% overall, up in the 60s and 70s in certain gametypes). So it just kinda got to me. The frustration built up, i vented, and as i said, i'm done being fanatical.

And incidentally, i dont think a bell tower would be as bad a spot as some make them out to be, especially when the enemy's distracted by the legion of friendly troops who are engaging them too (No, i'm not talking about saving private ryan, i know the movies arent real life). A good vantage point is a good vantage point, pure and simple. And if i may remind everyone, its just a game, and i'd like to have some "Classic Movie Sniper" fun by wasting everyone from the safety of my tower.

And i also know for a fact that each and every one of my rantings here (probably everyone elses too) doesnt mean a thing, because no matter what i want, or what i say, the games not going to change for one virtual marksman alone. I know that, and i'm fine with it. i'll just have to go and try my best to make do.

[Tales_From_Topographic_Oceans 0]

I am back rippin' and roarin' to defend my "right" to snipe <snicker>. Let's all get a beverage and sit down and read a few articles on sniping. Off topic, perhaps, but sniping is justified, and OPF is no exception. To say snipers are wusses is based on the assumption that they are not playing by the rules. Well, since there are no rules in war, anything goes.

article 1: scroll down to "CF snipers shoot with 'deadly accuracy"

Article 2: WW1 Sniper

No offense to anyone, but I will be a sniping tonight on OPF.

[WKK Gimbal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RedStorm @ April 03 2002,21:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tales_From_Topographic_Oceans @ April 03 2002,20:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3) Sniping is FUN<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, for you maybe, but think of the guy in your scope about to be killed for the 100th time by a sniper.<span id='postcolor'>

If you walk into a sniper scope 100 times, you deserve to die, LOL!

One thing as fun as sniping is sniper-hunting, as a BlackOp Day, with HK and binocs. Crawl through the forrest with 1 km/h and pop him from behind at 1 meters range. That is the joy of joys! And when the word spreads, those snipers begin to get really paranoid!

[Guest]

I always do my sniping at least with a BMP. Just find some nice secluded wooden area, load up them HEAT's and fire away. It is surprising how you can get away with it for quite some time before sombody wises up and LAWs you out of business.

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ April 04 2002,00:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">One thing as fun as sniping is sniper-hunting, as a BlackOp Day, with HK and binocs. Crawl through the forrest with 1 km/h and pop him from behind at 1 meters range. That is the joy of joys! And when the word spreads, those snipers begin to get really paranoid! <span id='postcolor'>

see, there in lies a problem in OFP. In Land Warrior, we had claymores!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 04 2002,00:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I always do my sniping at least with a BMP. Just find some nice secluded wooden area, load up them HEAT's and fire away. It is surprising how you can get away with it for quite some time before sombody wises up and LAWs you out of business.<span id='postcolor'>

I personally dont consider this sniping in the slightest. This is just long range warfare.

[Assault (CAN) 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And what about the power and accuracy of the sniper rifles? Iv shot guys up to four times before they die with these things. And it was a torso shot. I feel i should be able to kill with one shot to anywhere except limb shots. If i was actually shooting them in the arms instead, i could understand why they werent dying, but ballistics needs to be modeled a bit better for these weapons, so the shot actually goes where the cross hairs are zeroed.<span id='postcolor'>

I couldn't agree more. I'm tired of shooting people in the chest and having them still be able to run away, that's not realistic at all. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned it yet.

I also wish that they would remove the 'shaking' feature from the scope. At long ranges it is almost impossible to ht anything because the scope is shaking too much. This still happens after I have beeen lying prone for a while. Real snipers use a bi-pod or some form of rest so that they can improve their accuracy.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was a sniper in Delta Force Land Warrior, back when i could actually play it (for some reason, it just stopped working in multi-player. i think its my internet location or something)

<span id='postcolor'>

The same thing happened to me with DF2. Did Novaworld stop hosting it?

Tyler

[Die Alive 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ April 03 2002,19:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I also wish that they would remove the 'shaking' feature from the scope. At long ranges it is almost impossible to ht anything because the scope is shaking too much. This still happens after I have beeen lying prone for a while. Real snipers use a bi-pod or some form of rest so that they can improve their accuracy.<span id='postcolor'>

If you hold down the ALT key you're sight will stop moving. Just a little trick I've read at AvonLady's FAQ, I think.

-=Die Alive=-

[ralphwiggum 6]

it's another way of implementing 'freelook' mode.

it works for short time frame, but i guess what others ae talkinga bout its sight moving when they would not move that much.

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ April 04 2002,02:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The same thing happened to me with DF2. Did Novaworld stop hosting it?<span id='postcolor'>

I havent a clue, i'm afraid. Whenever i try to join someone elses games including official servers, it freezes on the screen that says 'Joining Session'. Sometimes i want that game back sooooooo bad, but all i have to do is think about everyone who thinks that they're snipers just because their AT4s have scopes on them, and i love OFP all that much more.

But yeah, that could quite possibly be my one bigggest gripe with the sniping in OFP. I cant stand it when i hit someone dead on, and they dont die. Last i checked, the infantry guys in OFP were modeled after real people.

[USSoldier11B 0]

I don't really have too many gripes about the sniping in OFP. I think it is better than in the DF games. I would like to see an M-24 with an accurate representation of a mil-dot reticle scope. That is what I shoot with in real life, as well as most U.S. snipers. I can snipe effectively in OFP out to about 500 meters. After that you can't see anything. I would like to see a spotter created that is armed with a scoped assault rifle and a spotting scope with laser rangefinder.

[Aculaud 0]

Why dont you think the sniping in OFP is better than the DF games? Land Warrior was the best sniping iv ever seen. You, however, sound like youve done it in real life, so i'll respect your opinion. But pretty much the only thing i find better about OFP sniping is how smooth the scope moves.

That would be cool to see a spotter. I dont think the laser range finder would do any good in OFP because, for some reason AI always knows how far away units are anyway. So pretty much, just give someone an XMS with a pair of binoculars.

[USSoldier11B 0]

yeah. come to think of it a spotting scope wouldn't be any better than binos because of the fog in OFP. Spotting scopes are usually around 24-36X which is too much power for OFP.

[Aculaud 0]

most likely. getting your soldier to use them, on the other hand - thats the hard part.

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (advocatexxx @ April 03 2002,22:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In modern battlefield the goal is to eliminate the enemy using any and all methods possible.  This is somewhat of a different idealogy than what ancient warriors fought with.  They believed in honor, in glory.  When two great warriors met in a clash, others stayed away.  

I can't see such things taking place today though.<span id='postcolor'>

Oh contrare! what are two enemy snipers meeting in battle, dualing to the death if not two great warriors meeting in a clash? That had to have happened at least once in whats considered modern times.

[WKK Gimbal 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aculaud @ April 04 2002,10:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (advocatexxx @ April 03 2002,22:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In modern battlefield the goal is to eliminate the enemy using any and all methods possible.  This is somewhat of a different idealogy than what ancient warriors fought with.  They believed in honor, in glory.  When two great warriors met in a clash, others stayed away.  

I can't see such things taking place today though.<span id='postcolor'>

Oh contrare! what are two enemy snipers meeting in battle, dualing to the death if not two great warriors meeting in a clash? That had to have happened at least once in whats considered modern times.<span id='postcolor'>

You've been watching Enemy at the gates too many times

I'm sure, if a sniper is located in real life, they won't send out another sniper to duel him, they'd simply level 100km2 with rockets.

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ April 04 2002,12:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">5--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aculaud @ April 04 2002,105)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (advocatexxx @ April 03 2002,22:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In modern battlefield the goal is to eliminate the enemy using any and all methods possible.  This is somewhat of a different idealogy than what ancient warriors fought with.  They believed in honor, in glory.  When two great warriors met in a clash, others stayed away.  

I can't see such things taking place today though.<span id='postcolor'>

Oh contrare! what are two enemy snipers meeting in battle, dualing to the death if not two great warriors meeting in a clash? That had to have happened at least once in whats considered modern times.<span id='postcolor'>

You've been watching Enemy at the gates too many times  

I'm sure, if a sniper is located in real life, they won't send out another sniper to duel him, they'd simply level 100km2 with rockets.<span id='postcolor'>

... Or use 1 large bomb

[InRange 1]

It's too bad BIS didn't implement that many snipers in the official missions. The only one I clearly remember is the one outside St. Marie in the 'Pathfinder' mission. He's not that efficient either.

[Tales_From_Topographic_Oceans 0]

Aculaud

My biggest complaint for DF is that you could shoot someone in the foot and they (or you) would die.

[Ether Dragon 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ April 04 2002,05:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You've been watching Enemy at the gates too many times  

I'm sure, if a sniper is located in real life, they won't send out another sniper to duel him, they'd simply level 100km2 with rockets.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually, it has happened in somewhat modern times. During Vietnam, the North Vietnamese put bounties on US Snipers. Carlos Hathcock, the Marine sniper I mentioned earlier, was involved in a sniper duel like what's being discussed here. It was so intense that his spotter had his canteen shot at one point, as I recall.

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ether Dragon @ April 04 2002,17:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Actually, it has happened in somewhat modern times.  During Vietnam, the North Vietnamese put bounties on US Snipers.  Carlos Hathcock, the Marine sniper I mentioned earlier, was involved in a sniper duel like what's being discussed here.  It was so intense that his spotter had his canteen shot at one point, as I recall.<span id='postcolor'>

and i will also say at this point that Vasilli Zaitsev was an actual Russian sniper in world war 2. I heard something like 400 confirmed kills (most likely a close estimate) to his credit. And, though it was never confirmed that major Konig was the german sniper sent to dispatch him, actual soviet war records state that that dual did indeed take place. I dont know how accuratly enemy at the gates depicted it, but there ya go.

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ April 04 2002,12:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You've been watching Enemy at the gates too many times  

I'm sure, if a sniper is located in real life, they won't send out another sniper to duel him, they'd simply level 100km2 with rockets.<span id='postcolor'>

two things-

1) youre right, i have been watching enemy at the gates too much. God knows how many times iv tried to find a copy of that for sale

2) what if they dont know the imediate location of the sniper? this is what apperantly happened with Mr. Zaitsev in WW2, which is most likely why an enemy sniper was sent to kill him as a pose to your methods.

[scout 0]

ok here is how it happened.

there was a realy good russian sniper that killed a lot of germans. because the ranges between the germans and russians were too short to call artilery they finally called the master instructor of the german school of sniping.

now, after couple of days of searching each other, the russian sniper put on a dummy, and the german swallowed it. after making the shot the german moved out of his position, and BANG no more german.

teachs u something about the virtue of patience no?

btw. i havent seen "enemy at the gates"

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aculaud @ April 04 2002,01:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">see, there in lies a problem in OFP. In Land Warrior, we had claymores!<span id='postcolor'>

Ah yes, the good ol' claymores, i've played in many Delta Force squads (including =IAS=, and i'm pretty proud of that ) and i always was a sniper, i only changed to an assaulting gun when the team really needed one more assaulter.

Those claymores have saved my ass many times, you find a spot put a claymore behind you (FACING THE OTHER SIDE ) and you just start sniping some bad guys. After a while there always is some wise guy who wants to score some more points by killing you with a knife. And then suddenly..... KABOEM..... you're surprised ... was that my clay, you think..... you look at your screen better and you see candymaN=IAS= killed Longshot.

You start smiling, look behind you, see the dead body, stand up and find another spot!

Aaaaaaaah, those were the dayzzzzzzz

PS: The official IAS website: http://www.bcs.ee/~kristjan/ias/

PSS:To the guy who played df:lw (sry, forot your name), have you ever played Delta Force 2 in multiplayer, that truly was sniper heaven, dflw was pretty crappy for snipers.