I am very disapointed in bis's lack of sniping....

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (WKK Gimbal @ April 04 2002,12:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">you've been watching Enemy at the gates too many times  

I'm sure, if a sniper is located in real life, they won't send out another sniper to duel him, they'd simply level 100km2 with rockets.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually I have read a lot of stories about snipers on several websites, one of them was on sniperworld.com but for some reason i can't seem to find the stories anymore on that site.

Anyway, the story was about 2 snipers in a jungle (dunno where it was) that had hunted eachother down for 14 days, i can't remember what actually happened to them (who killed who or who escaped) but it was a very impressive story. None of this is made up, there was enough info on the site to proof all this...

So i guess snipers sometimes do hunt eachother down...

[scout 0]

the problem is u cant drop couple of bombs on the sniper is cause u DONT know where he is.

and the best weapon against a sniper is another one. or a lot of NAPALM and such.

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ April 04 2002,22:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">PSS:To the guy who played df:lw (sry, forot your name), have you ever played Delta Force 2 in multiplayer, that truly was sniper heaven, dflw was pretty crappy for snipers.<span id='postcolor'>

The names Aculaud just FYI

I own DF 2, but iv never played it in multi-player because of a few reasons. One, because i also encounter glitches a lot with that game as well, and i didnt really want to take a chance. And two, because it just didnt apeal to me as much. I could imagine the only way i could conceal myself better is because of the low graphics quality. I could never stand not being able to fix that, and trust me, i tried.

I absolutely loved Land Warrior. The only thing that really pissed me off about that was that F****N LITTLE BLACK DOT!!! that little thing that everyone looked like at about 350 meters away and beyond. It was my best friend when trying to find targets, but it made it so that hiding completly was litterally impossible. Another part of OFP that i love so much

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ April 04 2002,22:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">the problem is u cant drop couple of bombs on the sniper is cause u DONT know where he is.

and the best weapon against a sniper is another one. or a lot of NAPALM and such. <span id='postcolor'>

that seems to be the only wayt that snipers ever get killed. Either by another sniper, or by heavy weapons. No general infantry guy ever gets the sniper....

[Denwad 0]

I think the people with the most guts (or ignorance) are the people who go to town with a AK-74 and rip open another asshole while being exposed to sniper fire.

And if anyone calls a tanker a "Wussie", tankers are 2nd on the biggest balls list, especially if there are enemy choppers around....

[scout 0]

heck, to go and spary about with an AK doesnt take any measure of balls, just a vey small brain and too much testosteron

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Denwad @ April 05 2002,06:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think the people with the most guts (or ignorance) are the people who go to town with a AK-74 and rip open another asshole while being exposed to sniper fire.

And if anyone calls a tanker a "Wussie", tankers are 2nd on the biggest balls list, especially if there are enemy choppers around....<span id='postcolor'>

i will vouch for not calling anyone on the battle field a wuss. The fact that we could all die at any time makes us no better or worse than any one else.

Some of us just happen to have different means of staying alive than others

[USSoldier11B 0]

Well said Aculaud.

[Denwad 0]

Yes, very well stated.

I prefer sitting in a big fat tank with a nice gun.

Hell, Any intelligent BMP-1 commander will stay away from the fight, picking off the Infantry with the MG and pounding M2A2's with the ATGM.

But, In real-life I prefer staying away from any combat, but I will get violent if I have to.

[scout 0]

heck, any BMP-1 commander will hide behind coupla tanks

[ralphwiggum 6]

and tank commanders hide behind mine fields... j/k

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aculaud @ April 05 2002,01:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I absolutely loved Land Warrior. The only thing that really pissed me off about that was that F****N LITTLE BLACK DOT!!! that little thing that everyone looked like at about 350 meters away and beyond. It was my best friend when trying to find targets, but it made it so that hiding completly was litterally impossible. Another part of OFP that i love so much <span id='postcolor'>

Exactly, in LW, you can't snipe decent without getting a rocket fired at you every 5 minutes cuz even a long range sniper (700m) is easy to spot, in DF2 you have ghillie suits, these really work in most of the levels. Another very positive thing about DF2 is the fact that there's grass in some spots, this allows you to hide in it. Really, DF2 had the best multiplayer of them all (i have played them all online, and i'm pretty sure of this, the only bad thing and also the reason why i stopped playing this game is because of the cheaters)

I also like the LAWs in DF2 more than the rockets in LW, those LW rockets are almost impossible to dodge, if you see a guy shooting it at you, you probable are as good as dead. In Delta Force 2 you could run away and just be wounded a bit... (if the rocket was fired from a pretty long distance)

Great games, the df series...

[HuBBa 1]

What! A 7 page long debate about snipers that ive missed? oh jolly me Anyway:

i think sniping is pretty good in OFP, allthough the snipers range is severly diminished. This due to game balance and game vizibility. (If you want viz, try a setViewDistance 5000, and prepare to be lagged =)

As for more sniper weapons, there are a few addons out now. Two which i'm the father of (The M24SWS and M99 Barret) and a russian .50 is in the works. All these addons feature new optics and reticules, M4K Mildot on the M24 and a Illuminated Mil-dot zoom scope on the barret. And soon i'm releasing a Russian V94 .50 Cal with a new russian optics. (PSO 3). So some of the tools are there for those who are tired of the M21 & SVD :9

Weve talked a lot on this list about shooting people as a sniper, and also hunting them. But don't forget one of the major roles of snipers. Recon & intelligence gathering. Then also, providing cover for a main assault can be just as fun as going hunting single targets.

In short, sniping in OFP is pretty darn fun imho. Now all i want is a better AI sniper. Give me a Stalk & Hunt waypoint

[FILO]HuBBa

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ April 05 2002,12:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I also like the LAWs in DF2 more than the rockets in LW, those LW rockets are almost impossible to dodge, if you see a guy shooting it at you, you probable are as good as dead. In Delta Force 2 you could run away and just be wounded a bit... (if the rocket was fired from a pretty long distance)<span id='postcolor'>

well, i dont know about you, but my game got a point where pretty much the only way anyone ever killed me was dodging my claymores and knifing me. I was an expert rocket dodger in that game. I had to be, if i was gonna keep sniping withough going insane and bashing in my moniter.

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Denwad @ April 05 2002,09:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I prefer sitting in a big fat tank with a nice gun.<span id='postcolor'>

suit yourself.

Some of us prefer to get behind thick layers of armor, others prefer to get behind thick layers of foliage.

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote ([FILO] HuBBa @ April 05 2002,15:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As for more sniper weapons, there are a few addons out now. Two which i'm the father of (The M24SWS and M99 Barret) and a russian .50 is in the works.  All these addons feature new optics and reticules, M4K Mildot on the M24 and a Illuminated Mil-dot zoom scope on the barret. And soon i'm releasing a Russian V94 .50 Cal with a new russian optics. (PSO 3). So some of the tools are there for those who are tired of the M21 & SVD :9<span id='postcolor'>

i'd love it if you could send me your m24 addon, or tell me where to get it. Thanks

[kleaner2 0]

Great thread and lots of good comments from the posters.

Let me start by saying that, despite all it's faults, OFP is by far my favorite 'infantry-based FPS'. I know you can use vehicles & planes, but the true strength of the game seems to be in the infantry.

Of the infantry, my favorite is the sniper. I personally own and M40A1, compliments of the Marines armorers at Quantico, VA. Let me tell you, it rocks! Although I am by no means an excellent shooter, I have successfully split bowling pins in half at 400yrs, hit chest-sized areas (used 2 side by side cinderblocks - about a $1.50 each at Home Depot) at 700+ yards.

Several game observations are:

* M21 should be replaced with M40 (marines) (came into service in late 60's early 70's) or Army equivalent. I wish the game supported the mil-dot recticle (any addons available?).

* In game sniper AI doesnt usually engage beyond 300 yrds. In reality, snipers can hit body size targets out to 600 yrds fairly regularly, and sometimes out to 1,000 depending on conditions.

* Terrain in game is realistic. Take time in finding good sniper hides.

* Sniper AI treats sniper like an assault soldier - AI sniper will charge a group of soldiers and shoot at short range. Strange.

* Snipers have ballistic advantage - their bullets go farther and more accurately than assault rifles.

Basic rules that will improve your gameplay.

* Use your ballistic advantage - engage targets beyond their effective range to return fire. 500+ yrds. This works in DF2 and Land Warrior too, except for those pesky enemy snipers. :-)

* Hide - plenty of bushes and cover in the game. Keep in mind your silhouette against the background (hopefully, trees or bushes).

* Make your shots count and shoot infrequently. Check to see where the enemy is facing (invaluable in MP games). Take only a couple of shots and move if range is closing with the enemy. Your hide/location will be discovered if you shoot too frequently. The sniper guns make distinctive sounds and in MP games, you are asking to be killed if you shoot too much. I have gone entire games without ever being spotted or have fire returned to me.

* Order of engagement - other snipers, heavy weapons (MG, Grenadiers, Mortars, Law), officers (they have binocs and can spot you, but cant get to you if you engage them beyond their effective range.).

This is good practice. Set options to veteran. Go to the mission editor (I like Malden, but pick whatever map you like), set up some random enemy (group of 4) with high placement radius (like 300) and some cycling seek-and-destroy waypoints with high placement radius also. Copy and paste a bunch of times over a section of an island. I usually do about 40-80 guys over 25% of a particular map. Set a trigger to setviewdistance to 1000 or 1200. Set time for early morning. Weather random.

Now, place yourself, as a sniper, somewhere randomly in the mix with a high placement radius. As part of your group, insert another sniper (lower rank), and outfit him with a M16/203 to be your SPOTTER. Set him to NEVER FIRE. Also give him binoculars.

Set a ending game trigger to detect your side (west/east) at a town or specified location. Insert a marker on the map noting this spot (objective)

When the game starts, you will be in a general area of the map, but not know exactly where you are. Also, you will know the general location of the enemy and patrols, but not exactly. Your goal is to get to the objective to end the sniper mission.

I have played this hundreds of times. Sometimes the game is 5 seconds because the random spawning puts me in a detectable position and I get nailed right away by a random patrol. But most of the times, I am inserted in a general location and all is quiet.

Then I have to make my way to the objective. The coolest thing about the game is that you can really learn the basics of land navigation and stealth (skills required by snipers). I constantly visible landmarks against the map and get an idea of where I am and where to go. Use only the map and compass - great practice for real life by the way.

Keep your spotter close, through the LINE or VEE formations, or by manual placement. The cool thing is that your SPOTTER with his binoculars will call out targets up to 500 yards if he sees them.

This is great practice and a tremendous amount of fun. I've played a single game of this that has taken me over 2 hours to get to the objective without getting killed. Sometimes its 10 minutes. The number one thing here is patience and discipline. Although nothing like real life, it's a good learning tool nonetheless. And plus, I don't have to clean my equipment afterwards. :-) If anyone wants the sample mission, email me at kleaner2@hotmail.com and I'll send you the mission file (in a format that you can edit it to your liking).

[HuBBa 1]

For those who wanna test the M24SWS, M99 and soon V94

All our addons can currently be downloaded from

The OP: Thunderbolt HQ

Have fun =)

[FILO] HuBBa

[Aculaud 0]

HuBBa

I checked out your addons, heres what i think.

The M24 is modeled beautifuly, and the scope looks great, but you might want to thin the lines out a little more, so they dont block importaint parts of your target. Also, it needs to be a little more powerful. I hit a guy right in the back, and he didnt die. And then, the shot needs tweaking a little bit. It climbs way too much at short distances. You have to be engaging a target thats extemely far away for the shot to be zeroed. You should either include a manual ranging system like the m21, or just make the shot always zeroed at the center of the cross out to about 300 meters, and have it drop gradually after that. Just a little helpful critiquing

And then id also do the same with the M99 as far as zeroing the shot goes. Other than that, that weapon did just fine.

[Aculaud 0]

yeah, i just tested it again, and no offense, but the shot isnt zeroed in the slightest. It was too high and way off to the right. and the test couldnt have been at more than 150 meters out.

[HuBBa 1]

the M24 is zeroed at 300 meters.. the M99 is zeroed at about 1000 meters. so if you shoot with that at 150 meters, you WILL go high.

The M99 however does NOT have realistic ballistics. we're working on that though.

[Hidden 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This is great practice and a tremendous amount of fun. I've played a single game of this that has taken me over 2 hours to get to the objective without getting killed. Sometimes its 10 minutes. The number one thing here is patience and discipline. Although nothing like real life, it's a good learning tool nonetheless. And plus, I don't have to clean my equipment afterwards. :-) If anyone wants the sample mission, email me at kleaner2@hotmail.com and I'll send you the mission file (in a format that you can edit it to your liking).<span id='postcolor'>

Hello Kleaner

First: I have just sent you an e-mail to get a copy of that sample mission of yours

Very interesting reading BTW. I have not done much sniping in OFP, and never i.r.l. Your information made me want to try that mission anyway, it sounds like a great way to get familiar with the way of the sniper.

Hidden

[kleaner2 0]

I haven't had the chance to try the M24 yet, but am looking forward to it.

In regards to the range of the zero, the M24 uses a Leupold scope (if M40, then 10x Unertl scope) that has a bullet drop compensator (BDC) on it. Meaning, you set BDC dial to 1 and zero at 100 meters. All you have to do after that is use the mil-dot to determine range, and then dial in the BDC to the appropriate range. 600m = 6. Simple as that. Pretty cool actually.

However, because of the game design, it might be difficult to program that in (the BDC), so the game basically can treat the scope as a fixed 10 power with no BDC, and a fixed zero at a predetermined range. This was the case with sniper weapons systems where BDCs were not used.

You mention that the zero you have is set for 300m, however in practice (in Vietnam - 70's) snipers generally zeroed their rifles for 700m (source: Marine Sniper : 93 Confirmed Kills

, Charles Henderson, E. J. Land) because that is the distance they liked to engage their opponents to take advantage of their ballistic advantage. If they target was at a range shorter than that, they would hold off center - shoot low for targets closer than the zero point.

Some reference material:

M24-zeroing

http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/23-10/ch2.htm#s3

M40A1

http://www.snipercentral.com/m40a1.htm

[kleaner2 0]

More reference:

Bullet drop - here you see that the charts are zeroed for 600m for military applications and 100m for police applications.

http://www.snipercentral.com/308.htm

See also

http://www.snipersparadise.com/ELR/reverse2.htm

[S_Z 0]

I just love the AI in this game. I just made a quick mission to test how good the AI snipers was. I put a sniper close to the top of a top of a hill in a bush next to a road(hold mode) and then put a squad at the bottom of that hill some 600 meters from the sniper. Then I put my self as a sniper about were the squad started..   I made a waypoint on top of the hill and then watch how the squad started running up the road…

When they was maybe 300-400 away from the sniper he opened fire and took maybe 2 men out before they got his position then a machine gunner opened fire but didn’t get too many shots away before he got taken out by the sniper too… after a little while remaining soldiers got scared and started to run down the hill again and as they did some of them got shot in the back… 2 of them survived and came running by my position before turning back up the hill again…this time one of them ran far out on the right flank and got really close to the sniper. I think the sniper was out of bullets now because he began to run up the hill away from the solder but on the top of the hill he got shot in the back. It was a great fight to watch