Secondary Monitor as Map

[ZeosPantera 0]

+1

A stupid idea for the reasons metsapeikkoo stated.... think of fixes and features that will help the majority not the rich.

Are you kidding me?

1 Having a second monitor lying around to use doesn't make you rich. You don't even need a special video card!

2 The next reply after the one you quoted gave good support that anyone with triple-head has WAY more of an advantage in game then just someone with faster access to the map.

3 What is the difference with hitting M and looking at your map or turning your head and looking at your map? Your still not looking at your crosshairs either way.

4 I don't care if BI makes this or just a mod maker. I would like to see it. If you don't want it don't play on my server and don't install it on yours.

Edited November 22, 2009 by ZeosPantera

[diveplane 0]

i enjoy running arma2 across 2 monitors, i agree dedicated map monitor would be awesome.

[dark bishop 10]

I'd like to see a map on my second monitor and agree that there isnt a whole lot of difference between hitting M or turning your head.

[Thirdup 0]

Couldn't sleep again last night so I fired up DCS: BlackShark and tinkered with this "TouchPal" application that I had read about. It was designed to be used with a touchscreen but touchscreen is not required if you just want the cockpit visuals.

DCS:BS (once patched to the latest version) has an "export" function that can be set up to interact with input devices.

Just plugged in a (very old) spare flat screen I had collecting dust and Win7 detected it.

Installed TouchPal (two monitor setup) and dropped in the Blackshark export file.

A few minor edits as per the instructions to sync up the resolutions.

LOL, it works cool as shite!

The second screen has all the active lights and switches commonly used (I can

easily tell at a glance what position they are in). I can press a joystick

button and the mini screens in TouchPal will swap between ABRIS (aircraft

systems monitor) and the SHKVAL (FLIR/targeting). Another swaps the onboard

computer systems display with the moving map.

Man, this would be insanely cool in ArmA vehilces/aircraft (having a second monitor for the map and weapons systems).

There has to be some way to script something like this for ArmA. If somebody makes a mod aircraft and it has a cockpit, somewhere a script (or listening to UDP ports, etc) is telling the landing gear indicator on the dash to show "green". This cockpit info (or a map, etc) should be able to be mimicked on a second display.

I'm not suggesting BI impliment it (but maybe toss in the ability to export the data needed to do it....the community will do the rest).

In any event, it's interesting stuff (and anyone with DCS:BS and an old monitor laying around you REALLY should give this a look).

(DCS:BS TouchPal thread)

(TouchPal Multi-monitor thread)

Edited November 30, 2009 by Thirdup

[An Fiach 10]

mmm, no, a static map is just fine and you can print one out. I don't have a problem with certain vehicles having this though as some utilize a real time dynamic map with tracking (FBCB2 for example) but only from commander positions.

[johncage 30]

the map is supposed to represent a combination of a physical map, gps, and information relayed from command via radio. why do you think the player's all huddled over every time he opens up the map?

the game is forcing you to find a safe location before you can use the map. it works, it's great. and if you want hardware advantage over other players, i suggest you practice more and also give up hope on this because bis is not going to help you cheat.

[ZeosPantera 0]

the game is forcing you to find a safe location before you can use the map.

Yeah, Lemme just do that in my low flying attack helicopter while over enemy territory..... Oh wait.. you're dumb and now I'm dead. I need info and completely removing my view of the entire world while I get it is a retarded idea. Same in tanks.

it works, it's great. and if you want hardware advantage over other players, i suggest you practice more and also give up hope on this because bis is not going to help you cheat.

Please see BI's list of arma features including Triplehead support and Track IR.

MtjlmfAljh0

Edited December 4, 2009 by ZeosPantera

[tcp 10]

@zachanscom: There are a lot less sensible feature requests then this and most aren't considered cheats. You can argue the merits of it all day long, however, do you really think you know what kind of support BI will add? You should realize that the game is a simulator and not a regular, competitive PvP shooter. Better support for the display and control of the map display would be a much appreciated feature by many game modders. Maybe it's not something for vanilla ArmA2, however, what makes this game successful are the sheer number of mods being made to tailor fit a individual user's preference. Do you think flight simulators limit the amount of information that can be displayed to the user just so that it will make it a fairer game? A digital battlefield, so to speak, such as ArmA2, with aircraft, vehicles, and infantry should not be limited either. A tactical advantage offered by better real-life equipment should be considered standard fare.

There is really no need for you to complain about additional features like this because it would most certainly be able to be turned off. It's not game-breaking to begin with and I don't see how you reference to player skill has any bearing.

[An Fiach 10]

Yeah, Lemme just do that in my low flying attack helicopter while over enemy territory..... Oh wait.. you're dumb and now I'm dead. I need info and completely removing my view of the entire world while I get it is a retarded idea. Same in tanks.

Please see BI's list of arma features including Triplehead support and Track IR.

MtjlmfAljh0

Your argument is piss poor. It is better to argue that certain vehicles have a digital display that includes a map, but it isn't true for all vehicles and this is why most vehicles have a person to do the navigation while another drives. Triplehead and TrackIR add to immersiveness but are not unrealistic features like a hud map.

Also it makes more sense to ask for the map to work as an overlay because the transition time is prohibitive and unrealistic. It simply takes too long to transition from reading the map back to driving or running. It is much like the transition to using sights on a rifle, it isn't a smooth transition, one of the few things that DR got right.

[tcp 10]

You've just nullified your argument by comparing ArmA to DR.

[ZeosPantera 0]

Lemme Try some science.

You are trying to sell a game to consumers. You want to attract them with as many features as possible. Assuming your making a game for a single monitor crowd is not the best course. As seen by the Nov09 Steam Hardware Survey. Quite a few people are running Dual monitors.

That particular configuration is practically useless for MOST games. Stretching the view over 2 puts center at the crease so it is not useful. However a screen dedicated to a map, stats, ai controls, etc would be an extremely attractive feature/game for everyone with that dual monitor setup.

On a side note the only way I can figure to do this without the help of a mod is getting a another computer right next to mine.. Make it join games with me and use it just to view the map. But that doesn't allow for AI control on computer 1's ai. So it would only be a half working system. And that seems a bit extreme.

[An Fiach 10]

You've just nullified your argument by comparing ArmA to DR.

Not at all, DR sucks hard but it was the first game that popped into mind when I was thinking of the bringing up sights feature.

---------- Post added at 04:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 PM ----------

Lemme Try some science.

You are trying to sell a game to consumers. You want to attract them with as many features as possible. Assuming your making a game for a single monitor crowd is not the best course. As seen by the Nov09 Steam Hardware Survey. Quite a few people are running Dual monitors.

That particular configuration is practically useless for MOST games. Stretching the view over 2 puts center at the crease so it is not useful. However a screen dedicated to a map, stats, ai controls, etc would be an extremely attractive feature/game for everyone with that dual monitor setup.

On a side note the only way I can figure to do this without the help of a mod is getting a another computer right next to mine.. Make it join games with me and use it just to view the map. But that doesn't allow for AI control on computer 1's ai. So it would only be a half working system. And that seems a bit extreme.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how this post assists your position in any way. You won't attract anyone that doesn't already have interest in this game with such a superficial addition to the features list. That also has no real impact on whether or not it is a good idea to do.

[tcp 10]

I believe he is pointing out that dual-head is more popular than triple-head. In that case, there are many people with a second monitor that could be used for something, but that is not.

You seem to be a purist who is breaking down what other people are trying to get from the game on the basis of it being unrealistic or insignificant. In actuality, the game is made to be tinkered with and most people are playing a modified version of the game that happens to fall outside your idea of how the game was meant to be played.

Find me a game modder who thinks better support for multiple monitors, independent in-game displays (that is dialogs/overlays) or even making data available for external HUDs is a bad idea.

[An Fiach 10]

I believe he is pointing out that dual-head is more popular than triple-head. In that case, there are many people with a second monitor that could be used for something, but that is not.

You seem to be a purist who is breaking down what other people are trying to get from the game on the basis of it being unrealistic or insignificant. In actuality, the game is made to be tinkered with and most people are playing a modified version of the game that happens to fall outside your idea of how the game was meant to be played.

Find me a game modder who thinks better support for multiple monitors, independent in-game displays (that is dialogs/overlays) or even making data available for external HUDs is a bad idea.

Purist, I'm not even sure you understand what you mean when you say that. What modders want is generally irrelevant to what the vanilla game should have but even more irrelevant to this discussion. Dual head more popular than triple head? That's easy, triple head is so damned expensive it doesn't take a scientists to figure that out. Also, if you were actually reading what I was saying you would understand that I am not against that kind of functionality at all.

If a person cannot intelligently express why they want something or how it should be implemented they will come off as just whining "gimme gimme gimme". If you can't get passed me, how do you convince the developers to invest the time and effort (and money) to work on a feature that you want rather than what someone else wants?

[Defunkt 431]

The argument 'for' appears to be nothing more than "our computers are capable of it therefore we should have it" which is daft. Your computers are most certainly capable of implementing an auto-headshot feature too, does that make it a good thing to add to a military simulator? If the feature was restricted to only certain vehicles then fine, it could be said to be realistic and I for one wouldn't begrudge anybody with a second monitor the added functionality in those cases (the same as I don't begrudge triplehead users their pursuit of added immersion). However that represents such a narrow opportunity to use it there's no way it could be considered a worthwhile use of development time especially when the inset GPS already exists.

[tcp 10]

It's quite clear, to most people. You are a purist in the sense that you demand that every request that is made in this forum fit in with your idea of the game. It has to fulfill your impossible criteria or you start to nitpick and break down people's post based on minor details.

You grossly underestimate the impact modders have on this game and the extent that Bohemia has gone through to make this game mod-friendly. The game is hard to get into and the average user usually quits due to frustration from performance issues and bugs. The main reason this game has a dedicated user base and longevity is because of mods. You also don't seem to understand that none of the support that Bohemia adds for multiple monitors or map control has to affect the vanilla game. Bohemia will still try to cater to the average user, but the flexibility will always remain.

If you are not against that kind of functionality then why would call it an insignificant feature? Zeos pointed out the stats to show that dual-head deserves some attention too.

If only you could see how sound. It does not matter if I convince you. You act as if you are the most important kind of user in this game. Bohemia tries to attract a varied audience. They will add a feature if a large percentage of users are interested in it and the majority of users are people who like customizing the game with mods.

If you aren't a purist, then why would you demand that I meet your approval?

[zild1221 10]

DROPPING A TANK FROM 2000M ONTO PAVEMENT AND BE FINE =/= REALISTIC

Faggots stop complaining. If you do not want it, do not use it.

[ZeosPantera 0]

Please stop the overall screaming at each other. Thank you for supporting the idea and its usefulness if you do and thank you to the people that argue logically against it.

However please don't put down the feature just because you don't think its

A) Unrealistic- Crosshairs are too, and so is running for 10K and not falling over, or flying a jet with a keyboard.

B) Cheating- If everyone has it and the server allows it then it isn't cheating. It's chess or a slight sense of omnipotence to balance out the horrors of the AI controls and team coordinations that currently exist.

C) Stupid - You're stupid, you're a towel.

[tcp 10]

Defunkt, while it seems like limited functionality in this one iteration, adding support for multiple displays and better control over the dialogs and HUDs would open up a world of possibilities. If this game was only infantry based, then it might not be worthwhile. However, there are so many mods out there that could make use of whatever amount of screen real estate you have, whether its widescreen or mutiple monitors, only better control is needed. You can't compare features like these to cheats even if they are making every piece of data available for manipulation because the fact is the game is already easily hacked and making the game more customizable has only ever made the game more enjoyable.

[Herbal Influence 10]

I am missing the point of using freetrack as an real advantage too.

Simply because using freetrack instead of TrackIR you automatically have the money for the two other monitors for look left and right. Whereas you don't have that money when you use TrackIR. ;-)

[bensu 2]

I didn't read the whole thread but I like the idea. I think its much more realistic than stick the map right to your face and you can't see anything else. I always feel unsafe when I use the map ingame because an enemy could pop up in that moment right in front of me. :p

[[frl]myke 14]

Lads, instead of finding arguments for or against it, how about to ellaborate how this could be implemented so that both sides could live with? It's all about compromise.

First of all, using a second monitor would be nice, no doubt of it. Also it is a valid point that it could be considered an unfair advantage against other players which doesn't have a second monitor.

So how could this be put together so that both sides can live with?

Server Settings:

allowMultiMonitor = false/true

Basically the same as enabling/disabling 3rd Person view.

So Servers that primarly run Coop Missions could leave it enabled. If someone with a second monitor is taking the lead, the whole group will benefit of it.

And on Servers that mainly run PvP it would be disabled. Simple as that.

Or even a scripting command, similar to those which already allow or disallow Map ingame.

One final advice: maybe in the future spend less time on finding arguments why you are right and spend a bit more time to find ways that would please both sides. At least this here is called a "community". Funny that "communication" start with the same letters, don't you think?

[An Fiach 10]

It's quite clear, to most people. You are a purist in the sense that you demand that every request that is made in this forum fit in with your idea of the game. It has to fulfill your impossible criteria or you start to nitpick and break down people's post based on minor details.

You grossly underestimate the impact modders have on this game and the extent that Bohemia has gone through to make this game mod-friendly. The game is hard to get into and the average user usually quits due to frustration from performance issues and bugs. The main reason this game has a dedicated user base and longevity is because of mods. You also don't seem to understand that none of the support that Bohemia adds for multiple monitors or map control has to affect the vanilla game. Bohemia will still try to cater to the average user, but the flexibility will always remain.

If you are not against that kind of functionality then why would call it an insignificant feature? Zeos pointed out the stats to show that dual-head deserves some attention too.

If only you could see how sound. It does not matter if I convince you. You act as if you are the most important kind of user in this game. Bohemia tries to attract a varied audience. They will add a feature if a large percentage of users are interested in it and the majority of users are people who like customizing the game with mods.

If you aren't a purist, then why would you demand that I meet your approval?

Demand that you meet my approval? I'm just saying you can't seem to get around my arguments, and again you haven't read my posts. BIS does not implement features that are not used by the vanilla game so again, they design it so that modding is possible but generally are not going to invest time in developing features that base users cannot experience (does not add to the marketability of the game). I called it an insignificant feature, because it is. That alone though is not an argument against its implementation. Zeos did post some interesting information, I simply pointed out that it is largely irrelevant to the discussion. Folks will not buy the game based on the ability to use a map on a separate screen. I am also forced to point out that the information he posted states resolution percentages. It does not imply any specific number of users.

I offered that it should be implemented as vanilla for vehicles that have electronic map displays but not for other units. This maintains the theme of realism while adding the source code for modders to do with as they please. If good sense is impossible criteria then your ideas fail on their own merit.

In the end though, my opinion is my opinion and I am entitled to it just as you are entitled to yours. I see no reason why we cannot have a civil discussion regarding our different perspectives. Open, civil debate is healthy. If you are angered by what I have to say, perhaps you are angry with yourself because you feel you don't have a strong counter to my position. Or perhaps you take it just a little too personally.

---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 AM ----------

Lads, instead of finding arguments for or against it, how about to ellaborate how this could be implemented so that both sides could live with? It's all about compromise.

First of all, using a second monitor would be nice, no doubt of it. Also it is a valid point that it could be considered an unfair advantage against other players which doesn't have a second monitor.

So how could this be put together so that both sides can live with?

Server Settings:

allowMultiMonitor = false/true

Basically the same as enabling/disabling 3rd Person view.

So Servers that primarly run Coop Missions could leave it enabled. If someone with a second monitor is taking the lead, the whole group will benefit of it.

And on Servers that mainly run PvP it would be disabled. Simple as that.

Or even a scripting command, similar to those which already allow or disallow Map ingame.

One final advice: maybe in the future spend less time on finding arguments why you are right and spend a bit more time to find ways that would please both sides. At least this here is called a "community". Funny that "communication" start with the same letters, don't you think?

That's a great suggestion Myke.

Might I point out that without outlining the pros and cons and establishing the opinions of the player base beforehand it is impossible to reach a compromise on those things. It is hard to meet in the middle until youknow where the middle is.

[LJF 0]

This would be awesome. I just want to work on getting three monitors myself first though XD

[ZeosPantera 0]

Maybe the first question I should have asked was "is this possible with the current engine and how it handles multiple monitors?

Do BI employee's actually come in here and post?