Secondary Monitor as Map

[Pulverizer 1]

Yeah, I agree they should banish all those heretics who dare use the 3rd person view or crosshair. Damn hackers!!!

[Brick Stone 10]

Ok, (Breathes in) I say to you...

"2 Screen or not 2 Screen! ...Map is the question!"

For years I have been making and using 6 to 7 inch secondary displays with touch screen ability.... MFD, widgets, gadgets, RCON, clients, Photoshop toolsets.

Now we have the MIMO! http://www.mimomonitors.com/Monitor/touchscreen via USB... without the need for an extra vid card or output from video card. We have others too....egalax makes touchscreens for several PC AUTOMOBILE ready 7" monitors

With Mimo! They work... you can have many... they are under 200$ USD Nice touchscreens with multi-touch coming....I assume

I am a Tactical-FPS.com (company restructure) owner.... I have every piece of gear. Throat mic. TrackIR.. you name it PLUS a nice couple of rigs.

I stay away from triple head for budget/space/in my dreams reasons... but ARMA is my deal... Tactical, on the ground team play is what I am all about. This love I have for a real down and dirty ops experience with the best milsim engine for the job comes from my service in the United States Marine Corps and all the coolness I could suck up when on tour and off.

I am also however,a Dad, a Gamer/Developer and a great Battlefield squad leader. I am also a skilled commander when the team listens. This game; however arcadey (BF2), has "Some" "Ease of Use" tools for leaders... that I'd like to see. something that leaders can do that regular boots can't

I know we already have extended menus and options as leaders, but it's more of the same. Convoluted and harrowing at times. Translating what I feel and need to do on the battlefield to the GUI can be messy when you don't have time to train on this GUI in order to make it second nature.

But then you fight the mechanics of opening and closing the vanilla ingame map and your blindness. If you are coordinating with other operators then they too are also blind to movement on the ground. Are you assigning 2 to cover that aren't looking at the map? are you in cover? Who plays that way in pubs... I know I got nobody on my six... and even on my Favorites.... it's rare to have aware... mates.

In the ARMA franchise, retired military like myself, need realistic tools that translate in the same way to us... So jumping in the seat is more attractive in ARMA than just playing.

DISCLAIMER: I'm gonna be a while...forgive me if I ramble and lose you... Not trying to. Most of this came as I wrote it. Stumbling on the thread of course, still trying to find a really awesome ARMA usage for a 7 inch touchscreen I have. So bear with me... Not a hijack. I firmly believe something really simple can be done for this to support dual screen ideas by BIS that are beyond the scope of just expanding ones FOV. If we can have dedicated instrument panels and MFD ( Mini LCDs) used with Flight Sims... then why not ARMA? And why not already for crying out loud?

Thanks for reading.

Leader types in todays games should have something more.. but less difficult to implement and enjoy. So we as leaders can still maintain our edge and easily, still replace 2 or 3 Run&Gun types while commanding our units.

Having an open map on a secondary screen that uses just GPS that can be moved with touch screen. panned zoomed marked... called up closed... used for tactical situations. Even while forcing a in game character "KNEE" would be sweet.

To be totally mission ready for commanders, squad leaders, fire team leaders and the like. Wow...

Force the knee as well as leave mouse look available. but use this little map. with the option to open a bigger map. Either that or force the map to have a real view as if I am holding it normally on the AO and I can scan and pan the horizon and sky over the top. Not at all unlike a split screen.

My 2 cents....Great ideas, Invaluable tools...

Development though is a different issue and that; mind you is the straight poop.

A Separate app designed as client maybe. outside the box is my ideal situation for a secondary screen. Something that would just run with Telemetry and pinch off your teams data and place it respectively onto your screen. With a server key option maybe.. A delicate set of variables that force the server bridge to pass the Telemetry data of each side to each sides commander only? Passworded access or access via in mission promotion 'IE" rank?? I worry about cheating too.

Lets not forget Touchbuddy Local versus client/server and where are they in all this?

You have to go that 3rd part App route I believe so that you aren't hampering ARMA from its duties... Remembering the problem with NON COMPLIANT HID DEVICES? (like my Touchscreen) anyone?.. Beuller?.... What happens is awful. The secondary Monitor just steals the cursor, the show and the whole ball of wax! You are then stuck on desktop with a minimized ARMA (this equals death in game with my luck) because Windows was owned by ARMA whilst playing! and your off doing other things.... with the mouse cursor Now Vice Versa!.

This is a touchscreen only failure scenario I've produced though. I don't have to plug in that USB cable here. Something running through video that just feeds off the data and runs GPS style with you in the middle, might just work.

Ok, but this is unrealistic for BIS as a whole to tackle for the scant few and impossible for any 3rd party developer to undergo without projections stating shear success. That isn't going to happen either to be honest. The one common factor in all of this is our numbers. Within these numbers...in those; the naysayers arguments to 2 screens my friends, is simply the truth.

Not everyone has a secondary display much less a tiny USB based one.

If the secondary monitor is not available; What of this all then? Can't just develop all this coolness for the elite few.... When that's just less accesible to leaders.....

"A leaders experience in this game is what sells it to his peers. Not the other way around"

Workarounds include just making the GPS screen on the bottom.... Well, a tad big bigger, toggleable, expandable, clickable and pannable when toggled or hotkeyed..... or... develop an Idea I have... Tiered Map usage.

Tiered usage map mod?!?!BRAINSTORM!

The one problem I now see with this whole idea is how ARMA swaps rendering modes when displaying your personal map now and then when returning to your FOV. I think something outside this realm of in place usage is required to launch the idea I am having. Query... How do you render the actual map onto a surface in game so your character and others see it in game versus swapping out to MAP and rendering back?

Tier 1 "Quick Fold" Decaying Map knowledge, Bearings and GPS consultation options

Where and what you are looking at just the small folded map of your current area of travel, off the cuff, non pannable. updates through a "Get your Bearings" Idea. Depending on how often you use it, The map can refresh with you at the cost of deployment and stowing. Once deployed, Bearings gained. Your position and direction and immediate line of site operators are able to be pinpointed on the Quick Fold map. You can flip to adjacent sides with ease. Set to have next map section or previous map section as the flip. Great options for offense and defense postures. Can menu flip access to sectors to facilitate unfolding and refolding map to look at other sections of map but still in Quick Fold Mode.

If your unit stays in a location for a predetermined length of time. Your Quick Fold Map Data does not Decay.... however While moving, Quick Fold Map familiarity will decay. Data fades off map and must be re-established. Running, injuries and combat will all affect this decay greatly. Multiple friendlies in an AO will slow to halt the decay as shared intel will be assumed.

With infrequent usage of the quick fold map. "Bearing Time" takes longer but can be verified with a quick "Consult GPS" action. Based on a set time for consult. and rank in game.. your Quick Fold map then updates with your current local and nearby operators in line of site again. Quick Fold is updated for a longer period of time again and your bearing time is decreased as long as it is used normally. The process of map familiarity decays until you refamiliarize.

Example

If you update the Quick Fold.. then say, you travel for 2K without running your bearings and you are not passing though friendly controlled sectors.... you will have to fully consult the gps or full map again to update your Quick Fold Map. Had you been "Getting your Bearings" often. via crouch and observe or stopping your vehicle and the like. In quick fold map... your location awareness on the map would be updated.

Held like an in game device either Map style(leader types) or simple GPS( non leaders or grunts that just want to play maybe.. I'm not labeling or judging...) Map type only options can be - Flipped up, over and back and lowered down/stowed. Left hand usage with slight relaxed right hand, pistol grip carriage of rifles and smg... other carriage scenario/depictions of course to suit other weapons in the carry. while browsing in Quick Fold. uses Freelook.

Tier 2 IMPORTANT part of my idea too!!! FOP Overwatch and Rally Point style. Can be viewed in game over the shoulder of the crouched user by other players.. can take advantage of direct communications code within the game. "ie" if the players aren't near and observing.. the map users indications and directives do not convey in the same manner as those huddled in the rally point where the Tier 2 usage has initiated. Players near the map user have the ability to observe the actions of the user. Their system reacts accordingly and they personally can take advantage of the peer pan and point observations of the map user in a more intimate way versus just hitting M. All data is updated to the near players in the most immersive fashion. Near players can use Quick fold immediately and have their maps available and ready to current position and current operationsal data and markings. Non near players must refer to the full map and in their tear down and the time that takes, lies their Quick fold update. This should have a "UNIT NEED TO KNOW" implemented as well. Possible workaround - map user can inform units to update intel as needed.

Visual elements of this part of my idea...

Open the player models 1st person view up to the idea of....A larger folded out map, draped on a knee with pan and peer and point gesturing over the top of the actual map. But better!

Map in left hand stays static. Use body movements as normal. map holds steady and then like a weapon carriage, your finger once triggered can be used to simply point. ( VoIP notions would really facilitate realism with this) You as the map holder can free look over the open map and the terrain at the same time and activate simple point command and callout gestures by pointing and marking with the mouse(finger).. Freelook is crucial here as then the map user can also point to ground movement and offer verbage if he spots something on the field while perusing the map. All with the same gestures.

Coordinate clicks on the field with marks on the map via a designated hot "shift key" plus click options etc. or use menus to make visual corellations to your team on maps of choice, 3d hud, and physical character pointing. to his map, and or terrain at the same time from an OP and the like. all in one mode of the map.

3D hud Data would fade after a rally... No yellow arrows in space over move markers. It's not real.

(breathe)

Side to side FreeLook is active. Player model hips and waist though, for forward and back leaning can be toggled so you can also observe overhead and down hill and valley terrain types. All while perusing foldout map on knee in view of squad. Then with another hot key or Space pressed. go into markup mode on the map in this same usage tier where your view as the map holder is then static (view kind of lowers and freezes your player model onto a broader scope of this map. as if you are lowering your battlefield eyes to your coordination efforts on the map. and go into full markup mode but a smaller non pannable map of your current sector set. You can execute fold out and fold up to and from either map mode from Tier 2 usage in addition to tear down modes when you stow the the Tiered usage in full.

Marking your sectors as normal and all can see on their map versions as normal in accordance with how Arma already works.

When finished in markup mode... Map is then clicked inactive... it operates normally again and you can toggle and use your pan, peer and point operations again. Would look in game to others like actual 1 handed map holding draped onto knee. Player using various hotkeys and shifts for submodes

Tier 3 Surface use. FOP, FOB, MAINS, Hard Cover. Normal Full map. full screen like normal.

Each mode is to consider stowing times. Quick fold should be an easy dig in the pocket and quick wrist flip and up comes the map to view. should take no longer than the current map foldout time and not restrict movement. easy solution to all of this crap...is a simple larger GPS screen though.

(breathe)

Just some stuff I thought of now....

Additional Technology notes...If Track IR can give me the FOV view seperate from weapon carriage... Then easily all the code is within to give us the pan and scan peer over the top map. Create it like a real time Datapad or map item in the game. But how to render map data onto an object as I'm envisioning

Other in game thoughts...

Granted, in game or would be, real life I am not dumb enough to open my map under fire without hard cover or reasonable concealment. but some faster on the fly, real life abilities on the ground would shake things up a bit.

Now here is your CURVEBALL

IN GAME leaders and their experience sell this game WTF is he talking about now....

My personal, opinion after I've written this all up... Sorry! I want a 2nd screen too but...

(breathe)

A better map experience and field coordination implementations is where it's at.. not a gadget or secondary screen. Why? We all need that something extra in ARMA. Some may think a second screen solves this and it does to a point. But it's just a bandaid really. We can have it, but lets take a look at this from another perspective.

Right now...IMO all command abilities in ARMA can stall the growth of a real leader type to a point where the learning curve coupled with the mechanics in game and timing of the current elements, makes the leader roles more dangerous. I get killed more when I use the stuff in game to command then when I just go it alone... and hope the live guys near me are just gonna fall into place. Honestly. Real VoIP is key there and another topic.

Getting killed more as a leader because of using the options in game is less than ideal. Sure I should have my guys cover me.... but Guess what. I, most likely haven't been able to prove I can be followed yet. Because I keep getting killed trying. It's a Faith/REP issue on Pubs. After that it's a language barrier usually. But If I am gettin gkilled more as a leader when trying to be a leader in ARMA... then I am not calling my friends and asking them to come watch me SUCK HERE!.

If things were more accessible and enjoyable to guys that already can lead. They most likely, like myself would be more inclined, leader or not, to try to get some friends to play. Just for experiences sake!. But if I can lead them with ease, even the doubtful, and make their experience better. Then they too will advertise ARMA as ROCKIN! and more people might try to enjoy it instead of running back to bad company to answer some sort of call of duty.

Most of the pub play breaks down like this... headless chickens doing whatever. Having a Number, or a "Cav." or "Inf" or Battalion in your name doesn't mean much to me nowadays. Rare is the talk and bravado matching the skills or knowledge. and the ones with skills are silent. might not have a headset... or they know that being a full blown leader in ARMA MP and using the stuff in game gets you killed more.(unless your team is awesome and doesn't need leashes and tranq darts)

Even some of the people with the best of intentions on delivering a realistic experience on their server don't really do anything realistic and yet they continue to make their communities inaccesible via rules , regs, hype and hyperbole. Some don't know anything about anything.... Drives me nuts.

It is soon translating into a desire to just play for many. That sadly almost always morphs into new impatient guys joining our ranks, for months at a time in spurts and then they leave for a more accessible title. They want all that ARMA offers but they can't shine faster. So they leave. I know many will say that's OK we don't want the fly by night players..... Oh yes we do. If anything Shut yer mouth and treat em as targets!

Maybe we can have Our(ARMA PEEPS) cake and eat it to though for once... No?

This odd innaccesibility. Or ease of use structure changes the landscape of ARMA as a whole in the gaming community. I can't even find a server now that remains active, full and enjoyable for more than a few hours in a day... and WEST players! MOST have a Deathmatch, Call of Duty thing going on... Run! ...continuously headlong into death , same path over and over, without deviation leading the hostiles to the MHQ or spawnpoint! No tactics in anyway, shape or form. It isn't even about having or playing with tactics... it's just about having "A Clue" sometimes. Knowing where and what to do ... That means leading and leading fast...

Can't lead some of them WEST folk and I am them folk!

.. Leaders in game should be given an advantage that coincides with their assumed above average skill. Lets them stand out more and thus attracts followers and makes the game for the follower better. THOSE Guys that come to ARMA and WANT to be lead by the good leader. Be it You or me.

We need the advantage to get those guys excited so they continue to play. and learn to be the same leader.

This means more options maybe like this "Secondary Monitor/ Better Map" presentation idea. Something more, but less headache and better accesibility. A better hud? WTH happened to Touchbuddy! SHEESH!

But then again, "Leaders" in itself in the scope of this conversation. That is just a role on the board. Any joker can jump in the chair... but to fill the role.. Ahh that is a different story now!..... So I'm at a loss here with what I'm getting at and I shant suffer you this digression further.

I like where the Project Reality team is taking ARMA.... I think they should be leaned on for a solution/direction to this.

Still a good idea - Still a bad idea... Still equallyso, for all the same reasons... Good topic!

I would use a secondary monitor/ touchscreen with a full time map. I would love to coordinate more with my teams. Anything to get the op rolling and my guys ready!

Again, Thanks for your time..........(Breath out)

I still want a 2nd screen.... jus sayin!

[maddogx 13]

Dude... I never thought I'd say this but: TL/DR. :eek:

[CarlGustaffa 4]

(again, nothing new was added to the discussion by either party :D)

Lol, agreed. We just have to agree to disagree, so I removed most of my answer I was writing :D

I want it because it would be a cool and useful feature. "render resource on secondary display" would have a ton of uses for mission makers and modders.

This I actually agree on! But topic is "Secondary Monitor as Map", and that I disagree strongly on. We could have movingEnable = true and movingOtherDisplay = true for some resources, like MFDs (as per defined in the addon config, for stuff where it actually makes sense). As long as map continues to work (M to turn on off input for it and display, turning off input removes map) same for those with secondary display as for those without, I don't have a problem.

I respect your "need" to disallow the feature (thus, I think it should be an option), but I think you are being very unreasonable about this considering how many people in the community seem to want it, and how few are actually against.

Well, I may be unreasonable because the original request is unreasonable too, even as an option. Many players wanting more arcadish gameplay doesn't make it the right choice to make, for a game that portrays itself as realistic. Making the map a realtime fighting tool is outright catastrophic (due to extended map info being shown there). As for your "popular game modes" comment, let's just say I'm hoping that D4 brings back some of the quality of MP (public) gaming - there are some features of D3 I wish was never there as it destroyed the experience rather than improve on it.

In the end it's up to BIS to add the feature or not anyway. I don't even think it will happen, even though BIS does support some of the more exotic tech (triplehead, trackIR).

Yeah, and both of these are realistic. I have TrackIR but I'm unable to use it (as I'm infantry it just feels awkward, can't get used to it). And I have additional display but I'm not using it right now. Yes naturally it's up to BIS, I'm here to make noise from "that other side" that doesn't want this game to become more arcadish, for the only sake of becoming more arcadish.

I have only seen requests to make map on secondary possible, but I haven't yet seen a good reason why, except the convenience factor. I'm now talking main map being opened at all times on secondary display, while shooting, moving and while aiming, not custom resources.

I'm pretty sure if this was allowed it would cause a stir among many who doesn't read this thread.

@MadDogX: TL/DR?

@Brick Stone: Will read your post now, while I take a night meal. :)

Edited October 15, 2010 by CarlGustaffa

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Holy crap, longest post i have ever read! BUT it is the best idea I have heard yet. Brick Stone, i believe you may be on to something there.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Well, I liked the foldable map idea. Not so sure I want it covered with any realtime updates or anything (would feel weird to me). And I would in a mission give foldable map to every player, and the vanilla map only to the tactical leaders. The foldable could work like this:

* Resource driven, means select an action and it pops up on the screen.

* While active, use key handlers to catch folding to other pages. Could use arrow keys to flip, while normal unit actions remain fully operative. Should map auto-open on correct page? Probably.

* Fixed zoom (0.5-1km grid at a time for infantry, 2-3km grid at a time for vehicles, and 4-6km grid for air units) and "map division" (it doesn't center on your location).

* Would be very nice if ONLY own placed markers where there. None of the mission markers or tracking markers (if some sort of BFT system was active).

And again, I wouldn't mind MFD's to appear in other displays, if addon author felt it could belong there (by setting the appropriate flags). Or even some sort of addon commanders map that missions typically restricted to commanders. But having the only map (main map) we have shown permanently on the second display for every unit out there? No thanks. Would kill too much of the realism.

And I fully agree with the headless chicken comment. When I join some public clan server, I'm usually quite unimpressed by the clan (if any are even there in the first place), and I guess I'm guilty myself - I tried a few times but pubbers aren't very willing to be ordered around. There is not much initiative to "take control". I locate my leader and try hard to "stick close" and cover my sectors, and try to ask questions etc - and it's typically met with silence. Maybe it's a "you're not in my clan so get lost" attitude going or something, I really don't know.

The only places I witness good gameplay is on rather hardcore tactical servers. But even there those who try to lead are getting hard times by the players, like "oh this dude doesn't know how to lead for shits". I don't care if we are all slaughtered due to a bad call (it happens), at least the guy was trying, unlike the player who could only complain. Typically all players are (according to themselves) better at leading than the leader, except they don't actually do it.

It doesn't even have to be all that voice based. It's nice naturally, but not required. All that is needed is for players to be under some kind of mechanic that rewards them for sticking close to their unit. Stick around = instant sense of teamplay, without a word being said.

[xxbbcc 6]

I'm strongly against the secondary monitor map feature, for several reasons.

First, if the map has the real-time data, it takes no time to look at it and then get back into action. Whoever said that it's "distracting like reading a post-it note on the wall" was wrong: the weapon sights doesn't move at all and a quick glance is enough - the player doesn't even need to move his hand (all fingers stay on the keys.) Because the map would be on the screen all the time, it'd take no effort to look at it.

For players, the current map shows tactical information partly because environmental awareness is different in the game from real life, so replacing it with a fold-out plain map would take away important details that's impossible to get otherwise.

Third, having this full secondary map only for a subset of players would take over the secondary monitor for all players but would show information there only for a few. I'm sure many would find that annoying at the least.

Also, if a commander needs the full tactical map, he can just open the current map and look at it. If he's not in danger, having the map cover the screen makes no difference to him. If he IS in danger, having the map NOT cover the screen (allowing him to see live action PLUS the map [on the other screen]) is simply cheating.

I also agree with CarlGustaffa's comment on adding countless of useless options to the game. I think the current map is a decent compromise between realism and usability - if someone wants an arcady game, play something else, there're many FPS shooters out there that cater to that crowd.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

I think if a secondary monitor is allowed to show the map it should be a separate map, just a high res picture that can be scrolled, markers placed, and maybe waypoints. There should be no way for it to have Real-Time information regarding friendly/enemy units. It would be nice to have the feature, simply for navigational purposes. It should also have a feature similar to ACE2, where you others can copy your map, and you can draw on it.

[dm 9]

I think if a secondary monitor is allowed to show the map it should be a separate map, just a high res picture that can be scrolled, markers placed, and maybe waypoints. There should be no way for it to have Real-Time information regarding friendly/enemy units.

Unless you're in a vehicle fitted with a blue force tracker, then the current "live" map would be fine. The modern digital battlefield really does display a lot of real-time information about the position of friendly units, and is also updated frequently about the position of enemy units.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I'd like to consider todays "ItemMap" a commanders map, or BFT map display, only available in BFT equipped vehicles (most) and anyone with "ItemMap". Soldiers could get this new "FoldMap", where ONLY your own markers were shown. I wouldn't object to having this kind of map on secondary (due no extended map info), but I still think it should go black whenever you zoom, aim, shoot, or jog/sprint.

Also I'd like it to be fixed zoom foldable rather than zoomable and scrollable. That way you can "operate" it using keys (i.e. arrow keys) without it demanding focus. From a scripters POV, I think two versions are needed:

1) Display, that doesn't require focus (you can still move, turn, etc). Limited key access using displayeventhandler. Hold key to view temporarily. Press key to toggle it.

2) Dialog, that takes focus. You have to exit or open display mode via button when finished placing markers etc. Double tap key to open it.

So, it shouldn't be a problem (off course I'm always wrong here, lol) creating this if the "resource on secondary display technology" was already in (I don't know, nobody answered me what happens left of safeZoneX on a triplehead display). For those without a secondary screen, it would just open on the main screen, partly covering the main 3D display (like the GPS does, only centered, and obviously with no damn player marker - that would have to be done by mission script if needed).

It should also, like in ACE, be possible to read another players map if close. So for uber realistic missions, we could have commanders with the tactical map ("ItemMap"), squad leaders with foldable maps, and grunts without maps that have to rely on reading his squad leaders map (massive boost for team play!). Vehicles would be BFT equipped and by script everyone would have GPS (like BFT map display) while in the vehicle.

If BIS implements the technology (resources on secondary displays), they should use the foldmap in several "zoom scales" as example and make items out of these (pilots could have different zoom scale and map information on it than a squad leader i.e.). But I still want todays map to be hardcoded to do what it does today (not even moddable). Yet I fear that there will be addons made (and allowed throughout the community servers) that removes all built in attempts of realism on the foldmap. There are already mods out there that removes important realism aspects from the game for the sake of making it easier or less annoying. Difficulty comes in more shapes than accuracy...

[pre-Vet 10]

So... Aparently you can run in the fields, with combat gear and read a map with no problems whatsoever.

(You are suggesting that people with two monitors would be given clear advantage over the guys with just one monitor.)

pffff, just automatic switch off the map when moving on foot. btw, this can be done already. press "M" and start running.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Did anyone seen a soldier in combat crawling/walking/running around with a open map or a device in size of a monitor? How this should work - in one hand his rifle and in the other the 19'' or 22'' TFT? Of course all displayed data there should be proven to be actual, reliable, in all details continuously...

Imho its still better and more authentic + immersive to have a ingame solution where the player has to interact with a map or device.

Perhaps there should be some good training missions for SP + MP to teach players how to use compass, map, GPS etc? On the other hand if some players (on public servers) dont like to learn or dont communicate its their own fault - not BIS or anyone else. No need to support lazy and/or stubborn people.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Nah, it's mounted on the rifle, on the opposite side of the heart beat sensor, for stability :p

[pre-Vet 10]

Did anyone seen a soldier in combat crawling/walking/running around with a open map or a device in size of a monitor? How this should work - in one hand his rifle and in the other the 19'' or 22'' TFT? Of course all displayed data there should be proven to be actual, reliable, in all details continuously...

Imho its still better and more authentic + immersive to have a ingame solution where the player has to interact with a map or device.

.....

I see how this would not be a good addition when you only have one monitor but to anser your question: well.. yes, the FO usually has a pretty big map with him and in vehicles(where this request was for) its pretty handy to have a big map. In our army we even have touchscreens the size of my laptop fitted that shows the map in the same fasion as requested.

At the moment you have a 22" map as well when you press M so I think that is as authentic as the suggested solution.

The thing is, when you are interacting with your map you can just turn your head an scan your surroundings without losing your work. And with some nice new scripts you have to give a map coordinate and its impossible to look at the map and give the coordinate at the same time, not authentic at all.

Btw, something like this already exists in RL:http://en.souvr.com/product/200912/5604.html. Felin, Landwarrior, VOSS, the Germans and the British projects are using these microdisplays.

[[frl]myke 14]

Did anyone seen a soldier in combat crawling/walking/running around with a open map or a device in size of a monitor? How this should work - in one hand his rifle and in the other the 19'' or 22'' TFT? Of course all displayed data there should be proven to be actual, reliable, in all details continuously...

Imho its still better and more authentic + immersive to have a ingame solution where the player has to interact with a map or device.

Perhaps there should be some good training missions for SP + MP to teach players how to use compass, map, GPS etc? On the other hand if some players (on public servers) dont like to learn or dont communicate its their own fault - not BIS or anyone else. No need to support lazy and/or stubborn people.

If you start drawing this pic, please draw the complete pic: said soldier is 24/7 in the army, prepared to be deployed to country XY days or weeks before he actually gets moved there, giving him time to get familiar with the country XY. And when he's there, he is there also for 24/7 probably for weeks/month/years. When he grabs his gun in the morning and steps outside his barrack he can be sure that he's still in the same country where he put himself asleep the night before. It's not that he's goin asleep in Chernarus and awakes in Takistan. He spends his (spare) free time there, he get's used to know every stone around his place.

Do you know every available island of ArmA 2 nearly as well as said soldier probably does?

[DaveP 66]

I'd personally prefer this to go in another direction, such that if you're on the ground and want to look at the map it's a physical item in your inventory that you get out and look at in world, would make things like navigating by landmarks much easier

[Neopas 10]

I would like very much to see this in Arma one day,even with some restrictions.

[ZeosPantera 0]

Well well well, I stop checking here and look what happens. Augments break out without a neutral party amongst them.

Been out of arma for a while now. Other things sort of took over +Paying the money for a dedicated was just TOO DAMN HIGH!

Carl. I have never seen someone so adamantly against the request for a feature. I think some sort of medal should be awarded.

To everyone else fighting carl, thank you and good luck.

I just wonder if everyone would be less likely to argue if they all had their FOV set correctly along-side the secondary monitor map and control console?

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=100235

[Tankbuster 1733]

I have to say that I count Carl as a comrade. He and I have a similar outlook, particularly when it comes to modding Domination, but I am a little surprised at how adamantly opposed he is to this. I respect his arguments, but I don't agree with them.

I too would like to see this available for drivers, commanders and gunners of vehicles, particularly those that IRL would have a similar capability. Perhaps the other reason no-one else has mentioned is that it would be an excellent technology demonstrator for BI, ArmA2 and VBS2

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Well, I fight for what I believe in. :) And again, I don't mind the tech to put displays or dialogs on other monitors. Just don't allow it for the default map, or rather, that it stays open, with the special features the default map has. I would consider it a game breaker, and I'm surprised others fail to see that.

"I want everyone with a secondary monitor to be able to carry twice as much ammo, because they have a secondary monitor". Then the support starts coming in: "Well, just buy a secondary monitor, and you'll get the same advantage". It still doesn't make the feature a good one. It doesn't make sense at all looking at a map while shooting, knowing instantly where to turn while still being in scope, without the delay penalty others get.

[Mr. Charles 22]

The best solutuion would be a map like in Far Cry 2, where you would actually take out a map, not just the big jpg on your monitor. Though it should be a foldable one with different layers, like a small map, with your imminent sorroundings (1 km e.g.) and then you turn it around, or fold out and Takistan/Chernarus/whateva fills the whole map, which should take up about 80% of your FOV. Disabling personal waypoints and more use of the compass would make this truly immersive.

€dit:

Oh, and 2nd Monitor could be used to display Playerlist, Mission Description, Tasks etc.

Or just Editor Debug info.

[ZeosPantera 0]

I want everyone with a secondary monitor to be able to carry twice as much ammo, because they have a secondary monitor

That is a terrible Idea and I can't believe you of all people would suggest it.:p

"Well, just buy a secondary monitor, and you'll get the same advantage".

Well just buy two more monitors and you will have-- Triplehead and an incredibly enhanced Sense and tactical awareness.

Well just buy TrackIR and you will have-- An incredibly enhanced Sense and tactical awareness.

Well just buy a better video card and you will have-- Better framerate for faster response.

Well just buy the Tak-X Raz-whore11 Mouse with triple sensors and you will have-- More accurate control and movement

Well just buy a larger/better display and you will have-- A higher resolution and larger more accurate view of the engagement area with perhaps a faster MS response time.

This isn't a console game. Advantages are to be had in nearly all aspect of hardware. Why waste what you have in the name of fairness. Might as well limit everyone's game to 20 FPS so that nobody has an advantage or make using surround sound unavailable because people with only 2 speaker would find it unfair. And don't forget to make sure nobody has a faster internet connection then the person with the slowest.

It still doesn't make the feature a good one. It doesn't make sense at all looking at a map while shooting

How the hell is someone going to aim and fire at targets effectively while looking twenty plus inches off center of their main monitor? I don't know about you but when I am looking over the map I tend to actually have to look at it.

knowing instantly where to turn while still being in scope, without the delay penalty others get.

OK.. First post stated you can limit whats on the map so this repeated repeated repeated repeated argument is a large stinky dog turd at this point. I haven't played on a server that puts enemy locations on the map in ages. I don't know of any servers that still do.

All you would see on your map on the second monitor while prone in some trees overlooking a town is... ____________________!

And you can insert whatever the server allows into the end of that sentence.

-You want enemy positions. Fine, if your on a noob server and the admins are ok with it.

-You want only YOUR squad positions and movements? Perfectly acceptable, since situational awareness takes a huge dump on your chest in most video games due to the not really being there issue and total crapfest that is the current AI report status command.

-You want the secondary monitor blacked out when not in a compatible vehicle? Done. Why argue with that.

-You want nothing more then a manually moved/zoomed map that doesn't even track your location but can still shows you your GPS grid cords and allows AI commands to be sent? Just hope you took your boyscout map-reading skills course seriously because you have entered hardcore mode now buddy.

You have to/must be able to accept at least one of these scenarios. Just one. And if so then you have to be OK with the concept as a whole. I have no issue with it being restricted to the point of uselessness on some servers, Hell it can be disabled on some servers, but don't talk down to a feature that as a building block can open up so many other advantages to the arma platform. Offloading the AI controls, mission objectives and weapons status to a secondary screen would be incredibly beneficial twords improving what I can only call a cluttered and unrealistic pile of a HUD we currently use.

Edited October 30, 2010 by ZeosPantera

[Pulverizer 1]

And again, I don't mind the tech to put displays or dialogs on other monitors. Just don't allow it for the default map, or rather, that it stays open, with the special features the default map has. I would consider it a game breaker, and I'm surprised others fail to see that.

If the feature was there, CTI, Berzerk, AAS and others would use it as a map anyway.

I'm surprised you fail to see that TrackIR and Triple Head are just as "gamebreaking" as a second screen map would be (ie, not actually gamebreaking at all). Each gives you an advantage in situational awareness over players without them.

---------- Post added at 10:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 AM ----------

"I want everyone with a secondary monitor to be able to carry twice as much ammo, because they have a secondary monitor". Then the support starts coming in: "Well, just buy a secondary monitor, and you'll get the same advantage".

Again with the straw man argument. See, I can make one too:

Well since you like balance so much, you must also think that Arma2 should force 800x600 @ 17 fps regardless of hardware. You are obviously wrong!

That would be mispresenting your standpoint and attacking an argument you didn't actually make, instead of the one you did make.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Pulverizer

[NoRailgunner 0]

Imagine one player can take a very quick look on his second monitor-map, while the other player has to find a safer place to take a look at his map. All this because he didn't got/resisted/switched off a second monitor for the sake of playing without tricks/cheats - sorry should be: straw man arguments? Maybe some people should be forced to play only CoD/BF/CS games... :cool:

The best solution would be an interaction/option to use different kind of maps ingame like the oldschool map, the military laptop and other devices. With some proper animations, models and features the immersion and feeling would be really great. Maybe BIS can even implement some features that are shown in the latest VBS2 1.4 video eg useable and working screens in vehicles?

[Baff1 0]

Imagine all the vast majority of ArmA players not being able to use their second monitors because 30 clan p[layers felt it gave people an unfair advantage over them.

It gives you no advantage at all. You too can buy a second monitor.

The biggest issue I have with this function is the ability to code it.

I have only seen one game ever be able to do this.

I think it was X Beyond The Frontier. It used the second monitor to display misslie cams and turret cams.

I don't know of any other game to use an independantly rendered 2nd screen.

Which leads me to conclude that it is not easy to do so.

Hold out for Triplescreen and Eyefinity, I think you will be able to afford 3 screens long before another game is programmed to support 2.