Flying in ArmA 2

[grub 10]

Hey folks,

Searched for previous threads, but could only find ones surrounding joysticks not so much around my question. Sorry if I missed it.

I have come straight from OpF, a game I've played since the get go. Now i'm not tooting my own horn here its strictly for the purpose of the question but, when it came to flying driving etc I was more than capable, never really got into joysticks and controllers as I was quite proficient with a mouse and keyboard.

So I've been playing ArmA 2 for a while now and am really loving it, its everything OpF wanted to be and more. But I suck, and I mean suck at flying. The UH1-Y I am getting better at but the AH1-Z, god i don't wanna talk about it.

This is starting to make me sad as I've gone from screaming through valleys in both planes and choppers nailing everything in site without targeting to not even being able to make a simple pass over. Now I guess its because I got very used to the little cross hair which you could just point to where you wanted to go and you would do so.

Now I know that OpF was in no way realistic and from what I've read on the forums from people who play a lot of flight sims and actually fly neither is ArmA 2. So is it just me needing to man up and get over the fact that my little cross hair is gone, or is it that the keyboard and mouse is a useless combo compared to a joystick?

Vehicles look smoother when turning with the mouse but I find I over correct them all the time so i've mastered it with WASD, now. It just doesn't look too smooth. (I know, I can get help for OCD).

Planes I'm getting the hang of slowly, took off and landed very smoothly yesterday so all hope is not lost. :)

Choppers I will always roll or drop to suddenly on turns or will just go straight, I am using the yaw but sometimes it feel like im in a strong wind and it wont swing round, so I slow it down a bit but end up just losing it.

I spent a lot of time reading the thread about realism with flying in ArmA 2 and noticed people thought that stock was too basic and would've like the option to choose standard or advanced. :eek:

So. Am I just crap and need heaps more practice :( or are others having trouble using the keyboard in choppers?

Is it joystick time? If so then I'm aware there are some good threads already outlining which ones suit ArmA 2.

Regards,

Grub

[Master gamawa 0]

You will get used to it. Flying in Arma is a bit generic which suits the game's needs well enough but it takes some time. I loved choppers in Operation Flashpoint. Especially the fact that you could make them turn easier... I had trouble keeping on target when I started playing Arma 2. To be honest I abandoned the chopper training mission for that reason but I played here and there and now I can do all sorts of crazy shit.

Planes still piss me off, probably because they go too fast but I am deadly in a Camel plane. I used to play "land the camel on that little island near the beach of south Sahrani" to get used to how it handles. Try it.

[celery 8]

In the long run Arma's flight model is more versatile and allows much more precise moves. Keep practising with mouse and keyboard, using a joystick in this game is a handicap.

One of the best ways to practise choppers is to make yourself some waypoints in the editor and try to reach them while flying as low as possible.

[liquidpinky 11]

You will get used to it. Flying in Arma is a bit generic which suits the game's needs well enough but it takes some time. I loved choppers in Operation Flashpoint. Especially the fact that you could make them turn easier... I had trouble keeping on target when I started playing Arma 2. To be honest I abandoned the chopper training mission for that reason but I played here and there and now I can do all sorts of crazy shit.

Planes still piss me off, probably because they go too fast but I am deadly in a Camel plane. I used to play "land the camel on that little island near the beach of south Sahrani" to get used to how it handles. Try it.

I like the Camel as well, it is great for checking out a newly downloaded map by going for a spin in third person view.

The helis rudder control could do with some tweaking as they function more like a plane above certain speed.

I tend to just take them out for a spin and find ridiculous places to try and land them. I am reasonably proficient with transport in a heli now but I wouldn't dare trying any combat missions with an attack heli yet, I couldn't hit shit to save my life.

[rory_pamphilon 16]

Iv found a reasonably good setup now that Is good for controlling all vehicles. Now I'm no console noob but you should try giving a pc joypad a whirl. I'm using mouse + keyboard for running and gunning and then use joypad for flying. Infact the way arma 2 let's u configure ur buttons/axis's is so versatile that I can use my (analogue logitech) joypad to fly choppers & planes v accuratley. The benefit of this over a joystick is that I can then jump in a jeep/car/apc/tank/boat and still use the same joypad to control all the vehicles. Driving with a joystick is pretty tricky but with a joypad u can master all vehicles with just one simple controller.

[Ebden 10]

you should try giving a pc joypad a whirl.

He's right, you have adequate settings to run simultaneously a joypad, keyboard, mouse, joystick, trackIR, and probably that amount again. Practice is all you need. There's plenty of room for tweaking which controls, or controller types, you use for different actions.

As far as adjusting to flying the helo, don't focus on moving the helo body, but the rotor joint. That's your pivot point at high speed, and the helo is more of a counterweight to the rotors. When you bank (at high speed), you are banking around the rotors, not the helo body. The body is just swinging around beneath. It's different than banking a plane, too b/c your thrust is behind, pushing the plane, rather than carrying it. And don't be afraid to use the auto-hover control if you feel yourself getting out of control. It'll bring you back from most flying mistakes (in a helo) to a steady hover. You might be best to practice in the Mh60/blackhawk instead of the UH-1Y. It's big and ornery, but it responds the least to over-steering and makes for a good first-flight trial.

Some drills to try when you are flying are Master Gamawa's technique for specific map locations, like small fields, islands, rooftops, etc. In a plane, unless you are using a VTOL-capable jet, don't bother trying to land on anything other than the three Chernarus runways. Planes aren't supposed to land elsewhere, so save that move for advanced tom-foolery nights. (and USE YOUR FLAPS for landing and takeoff)

Another drill for the helo or jet in hover is to pick an elevated object, like a tower or building in an open area, and fly around it in as many different ways as you can. You'll learn how to manage your speed, when to bank and when to use rudder control. Use 3rd person view to see the geometry. A useful technique is to learn drift. From a hover, rock left (or right) and then back to vertical. You'll see yourself drift perpendicular to your compass direction. Don't leave the helo rocked, otherwise it'll pick up speed and slip through the air, probably downward. Incorporate your rotor while controlling your drift, and you'll find you can rotate around your helo nose nicely. Great maneuver for an attack helo, and for the Uh-1Y or Mh60 gunners to engage a radius without the helo rotating static.

The Armory and Boot camp are good to get the basic feel for flying. Also, if you want to add a little more shooting, try Strongharm's 'tweaks' to Xeno's domination. It's called 'Airdom', presently in Beta3c, and you have your pick of juicy vehicles to play in a map made expressly for players to get their big-boom rocks off. Filter servers by servername 'sparta.'

[Thirdup 0]

It's funny, but the day ArmA2 released the first thing I noted was that vehicle steering (with mouse) was all messed up. Like the OP, I've gotten to where I can get by with WASD but it's nowhere near as smooth as ArmA1.

As far as flying goes....with the default settings:

I highly recommend a joystick for aircraft. Even if it's a simple one. I was constantly scrolling the mouse off the pad to maintain turns and banks. A cheap stick will resolve that.

For helos I still find myself doing better with the keyboard/mouse (again, with the default control settings). Helos flown under the defaults tend to be very sluggish with a stick and easy to over-correct.

I think a lot of it has to do with the way controls are configured in the game options. I can get either fixed wing or helos dialed in properly at any given time...but what works ideally for one messes things up totally in the other. *That* is a big issue that I hope BI devs get off their asses and address some day. We *really* need a seperate "aircraft" and "helo" section in the control options. And for the love of god, fix the annalog throttle while you're at it.

---------- Post added at 02:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 PM ----------

btw Ebden, very good post there

[EDcase 87]

I strongly recommend a joystick for aircraft. One with twist (rudder control)

The Saitek AV8R-01 is a good one that isn't too expensive.

It does take a while to set up the controls to your liking but its great once done. (You can control the sensitivity of each axis)

Remember to use small movements.

A bit off topic: I flew a real helicopter for my birthday recently and even though I new the controls (Cyclic) were supposed to be sensitive I was shocked by how tiny the movements have to be. There is also a slight delay between input and reaction which you don't get with games. (I did over correct ALOT when trying to hover :() But I did well with the cruise and turns at 700 feet.

Edited November 4, 2009 by EDcase

[bfalcon 10]

I would ask for a seperate mouse Y-axis reverse for aircraft - unless I missed it. Trying to do the training on the helos, I had to reverse the Y-axis and then cancel it after the session... in a mission or playing online, I don't think I'd ever be able to fly the way things are...

[grub 10]

Cheers guys,

I guess like everything in ArmA 2 one must remember patience. Tonight I will as Celery suggested do some way point drills, then I need to start messing around with the rotor joint as suggested by Ebden.

I am getting better at planes like I said landing and taking off well now but as mentioned they do scream, so Master Gamawa might give the old Camel a go and work up from there :D.

Might give the game pad a go if I still suck like I suck now.

Thanks guys all really helpful posts, guess I was just getting cranky as the game on ground is just a better, smoother OpF so I was expecting the flying to be closer if not the same to OpF, but one must except change and I am happy too as its a great game, the greatest game from BI to date.

Again thanks for the posts guys. :D

Regards

Grub

---------- Post added at 08:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:05 AM ----------

A bit off topic: I flew a real helicopter for my birthday recently and even though I new the controls (Cyclic) were supposed to be sensitive I was shocked by how tiny the movements have to be. There is also a slight delay between input and reaction which you don't get with games. (I did over correct ALOT when trying to hover :() But I did well with the cruise and turns at 700 feet.

You lucky bugger :D

[tcp 10]

You don't need to use Y-axis invert. Just go to aircraft control and switch the mouse axis (and/or joystick axis) mappings for Nose Up and Nose Down.

The main thing about controlling aircraft (and vehicles) is to use the keyboard for primary control (rough) and the mouse for correction (fine). It's kind of like fighting yourself, but it's the only way to get responsive control. Also, you need to keep momentum in mind when making any type of turn. It takes a while to get used to, but once you know what to expect, you'll be complaining about it being too easy to control.

[grub 10]

The main thing about controlling aircraft (and vehicles) is to use the keyboard for primary control (rough) and the mouse for correction (fine). It's kind of like fighting yourself, but it's the only way to get responsive control. Also, you need to keep momentum in mind when making any type of turn. It takes a while to get used to, but once you know what to expect, you'll be complaining about it being too easy to control.

Here's hoping. Yeah momentum does seem to be my downfall,

cheers mate.

[Master gamawa 0]

The main thing about controlling aircraft (and vehicles) is to use the keyboard for primary control (rough) and the mouse for correction (fine). .

This is correct.

Even in planes I use the arrow keys for up/down nose. There is only so much you can do with the mouse especially when you have to take a 180 turn. You need to use the keys because (unless you have very high sensitivity) you'll end up picking and repositioning your mouse all the time.

[celery 8]

I highly recommend a joystick for aircraft. Even if it's a simple one. I was constantly scrolling the mouse off the pad to maintain turns and banks. A cheap stick will resolve that.

That's why you should use the keyboard too: WASD for sharp rolls and turns, mouse for precision. Joystick in A2 is very badly implemented, the movement gets too sharp very early so it lacks the both the quick movements of the keyboard and the precision that mouse has.

Frankly a typical mistake a newbie pilot makes is seeing someone fly well and going "omg" just because he can't do that stuff "even" with a joystick. That's the thing: the pro isn't using one.

Edited November 5, 2009 by Celery

[liquidpinky 11]

I tend to just use a joypad for flying and save my mouse for trim funtions, some aircraft mods can be front heavy or imbalanced and trimming them makes for a more pleasant flying experience.

[Dr.Pulp 0]

btw. is there any way to setup or configure a deathzone for a controller. i use a logitech gamepad for driving and a MS Sidewinder FF2 for flying...but i always got a deathzone i wanna get rid of.

[Master gamawa 0]

There must be a configurable option in your controller software. I have a saitek stick that is configurable

[Antonkr 10]

i am using a joystick and its way better to fly and drive. I used to play flight sims so i couldn't have played it without joystick.

[Dr.Pulp 0]

There must be a configurable option in your controller software. I have a saitek stick that is configurable

there is no controller software. MS stopped supporting their joysticks long ago :(

[bfalcon 10]

You don't need to use Y-axis invert. Just go to aircraft control and switch the mouse axis (and/or joystick axis) mappings for Nose Up and Nose Down.

The main thing about controlling aircraft (and vehicles) is to use the keyboard for primary control (rough) and the mouse for correction (fine). It's kind of like fighting yourself, but it's the only way to get responsive control. Also, you need to keep momentum in mind when making any type of turn. It takes a while to get used to, but once you know what to expect, you'll be complaining about it being too easy to control.

Thanks, I missed that when I looked through the controls.

I've been flying helis since Gunship on the spectrum, so I'm kinda ok with them (although I'm still getting used to Arma's helis), but I used to fly the helis regularly in BF:V and the BF:1942 vietnam mod that preceded it, even to the point where I was one of the regular ferry pilots on the server I played on.

The point I fall down is where I'm worrying about pointing weapons at the target - I make a much better huey or blackhawk pilot than I do a cobra pilot... unless someone wants me to use the rockets on the venom...

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Thirdup: To get back Arma1 mouse steering, replace the current mouse move commands with the other mouse move commands.

[celery 8]

Thirdup: To get back Arma1 mouse steering, replace the current mouse move commands with the other mouse move commands.

Thanks for the advice! :)

[liquidpinky 11]

there is no controller software. MS stopped supporting their joysticks long ago :(

I have started using my Saitek Cyborg evo for flying now, the throttle still reverses the collective on the helis or at least how I have set it up in ArmA 2's control menu it seems that way.

I set it as follows.

Decrease thrust Z+ Axis

Thrust (Analogue) Z- Axis

Brake (Analogue) Z+ Axis

With those set in the aircraft controls the heli works as should. Maybe don't need the decrease thrust one but I have not tried without it.

This is also with the latest patch I will add, I think they recently upgraded the heli controls.

[ghost271 10]

I just switched over to my Xbox 360 controller for helio flying and it's a god send ! Turns are far tighter and more responsive. Gonna tweak it some more though.

[Zenu 10]

Can someone explain to me how exactly are you supposed to use flaps while taking off? Practiced today a bit landing and taking off with SU-25 and especially the taking off was hard for me, it just didn't want to lift. Tried to start with full flaps to speed up and then gradually get them up but still I just barely could get to air and if there would have been trees on the way I would have died for sure :S.