FlexiAI (WIP) discussion

[fabrizio_t 58]

Seen the new supression command in the new beta patches!

Need to experiment with it ;)

[warabiej 10]

Sorry warabiej, just answered to your message.

I think what you're interested in is quite different from what FlexiAI is supposed to do though.

I think its nearly the same with a little difference, meybe you dont understand me due to my english :)

[markushaze 10]

@warabiej Maybe it would be better if you post your idea directly in the thread :-)

i dont think anybody is gona simply "steal" your idea :-)

[kroky 1]

Hi,

Is there a alpha/beta version out to test?

[fabrizio_t 58]

I think its nearly the same with a little difference, meybe you dont understand me due to my english :)

I saw your latest message, from your description some of features you are looking for are similar to those planned for FlexiAI, sorry for my previous misunderstandment. I promise i'll give out some more info about FlexiAI internals in this thread in the next few days, i am very busy with family and job currently.

[Alex72 1]

Hows the work coming along fabrizio? Did you find any fun to do with the SuppressFor yet?

Just thirsty for some update on your great scripts. :)

[fabrizio_t 58]

Hi,

Is there a alpha/beta version out to test?

No my friend, i'm sorry.

Not trying to hype this thing too much, scripts are just too "green" even for an alpha release.

Also latest 59928 build has somewhat messed up some things with FlexiAI. Could be that simply vanilla AI is becoming a bit smarter, since FlexiAI is performing worse on most tests.

On the other hand now i see vanilla AI units having problems (again) with slow reactions to close threats, did anybody noticed that ? Sometimes they just don't return fire, or run intro enemies till point-blank range without firing.

Maybe a secondary effect of the fixed/newly implemented suppression fire ?

More testing needed.

---------- Post added at 03:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 PM ----------

Hows the work coming along fabrizio? Did you find any fun to do with the SuppressFor yet?

Just thirsty for some update on your great scripts. :)

Have not tried "SuppressFor" yet, but i'm pretty sure that vanilla AI is now using suppressive fire, i've seen it in action and it works fine.

As i said with latest beta build FlexiAI is performing worse than before and i should understand what is the cause, before proceeding any further.

Hopefully i'll have some spare time for this in the weekend ;)

JUST A REQUEST TO ANYBODY RUNNING LATEST BETA 59928 AND WISHING TO HELP:

Can you check your .RPT log file and tell me if you are seeing the error message: "Array index out of range" ?

I'm hunting it since i bet is a FlexiAI error, but i can't say for sure it's not a vanilla error.

You'll save me some time :)

Thx anyway.

Edited November 6, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[warabiej 10]

@warabiej Maybe it would be better if you post your idea directly in the thread :-)

i dont think anybody is gona simply "steal" your idea :-)

I dont worry about "stealing" my idea because it's nothing special :) so

I have basic knowledge about scripting, still learning.

I am trying do the same (almost the same) script like fabrizio's FlexiAI but not for Arma just for VBS2. AI in vbs2 is sometimes very stupid, so if vbs2 should be used as military traning system AI definitely need to be improved. Fabrizio's work is very helpful here. More of it a would like to add some parameters in script eg. fear, stress, morale etc (0 - 1), which can be change during the mission, eg when contact with enemy occour, fear parameter will randomly encrease, when fear is more then eg 0.75 soldier wont fight but run away or hide and dont move.

But firstly i need to do some scripts like FlexiAi, eg. soldiers wont rush to enemy but when enemy will be detect patrol group will crouch and collect info, then lider will decide to attack or bypass enemy group. Simply improve AI to act more reasonably during different situations.

Last week I spent on doing what i wrote earlier, my main problems was with detecting enemy. I used functions nearestObjects and knowsAbout. I didnt handle with detecting enemy whos distance is greater then 250 m. I red that Arma has the same problem.

I didn't know how AI is checking if area is clear (radio message: clear) i did my own script handle with this but, there is little problem, when my script check and area is clear, team will stand up and advance, only after few seconds lider said "clear". How i can turn it off or maybe there is another way to solve this?

sorry for my english, i hope you will understand me :D

[fabrizio_t 58]

Last week I spent on doing what i wrote earlier, my main problems was with detecting enemy. I used functions nearestObjects and knowsAbout.

I think it's better to use "nearTargets" for that.

It returns only KNOWN threats so you haven't to fiddle with knowsAbout

I didnt handle with detecting enemy whos distance is greater then 250 m. I red that Arma has the same problem.

This is the n. 1 problem with AI in ArmA2. it's a known bug (look into my signature) that BIS will hopefully fix. The only actual workaround i know is editing the "sensitivity" variable for all infantry units into "characters2.pbo" (Here is a little mod doing just that: http://www.2shared.com/file/8994379/89a14594/FAB_characters2_mod.html).

That will give you a slightly better spotting performance.

I didn't know how AI is checking if area is clear (radio message: clear) i did my own script handle with this but, there is little problem, when my script check and area is clear, team will stand up and advance, only after few seconds lider said "clear". How i can turn it off or maybe there is another way to solve this?

I dont't think you will be able to override that radio message, i think it's safe to ignore it ;)

Also better waiting some time before switching to "safe" mode.

Suggestion: I bet you have a loop checking for threats presence: so save timestamp into a variable if enemies are detected. Switch to "safe" state where no threats are detected -AND- say 60 seconds at least passed by since last recorded timestamp.

---------- Post added at 06:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 PM ----------

Today i tested quite alot vanilla AI of build 59928 and had some mixed impressions:

PROS

1) units (try to) move into cover a lot more

2) units spread on terrain and act very aggressively

3) units often use suppression fire

CONS

1) units engaging move back and forth in a very clumsy and unpredictable way, sometimes just to be simply shoot in the back.

2) units being fired upon from close distance (<100m. ) react extremely slowly, sometimes they just sit there and die (old problem, now seen more frequently)

3) units tend to "stick" to their targets and it's harder to script them to do something different

Another thing i noticed is that AI shooting precision is worse, units miss more.

Overall AI behaves differently compared to older betas.

FlexiAI needs to be tweaked quite a lot to cope with this new behaviour.

I've already stripped many features, since they are not working as expected anymore.

Edited November 7, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[fabrizio_t 58]

UPDATE

Spent most of weekend spare time fixing FlexiAI to achieve a good performance with up-to-date beta build 59928.

Also added some features.

I focused on 3 things:

1) Fine-tuning FlexiAI skill scaling

2) Fine-tuning units stance & movement settings

3) Adding suppressive fire tactics

Vanilla AI skill settings have close to no tactical effect, so FlexiAI is rescaling all skill settings.

I've run a slightly modified testbed scenario with and without FlexiAI.

The scenario is featuring a 6 men / 100% skill advancing force vs. a 12 men / 50% skill defending force.

The advancing force is supposed to work its way through or around the defending force and to reach an objective waypoint.

I'm expecting the advancing force to achieve at least a 1:2 casualties ratio.

See the attached screenshots for results:

http://www.2shared.com/file/9031813/cf6d5602/flexiai.html

TABLE OF RESULTS:

VANILLA AI

Advancing force struggles to achieve a 1:1 casualties ratio. It means that doubled skill does not stand a chance against doubled numbers.

Advancing force suffers a 100% casualties rate.

Defending force suffers a 50% casualties rate.

Advancing force fails to reach its objective waypoint.

VANILLA AI + FlexiAI skill settings

Advancing force achieves a 1:1,8 casualties ratio. It means that doubled skill now have a noticeable tactical effect.

Advancing force suffers a 80% casualties rate.

Defending force suffers a 75% casualties rate.

Last survivor of the Advancing force reaches its objective waypoint.

FlexiAI powered Advancing force

Advancing force achieves a 1:6 casualties ratio. It means that doubled skill now have a critical tactical effect.

Advancing force suffers a 33% casualties rate.

Defending force suffers a 92% casualties rate.

66% of the Advancing force reaches its objective waypoint.

Edited November 9, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[Chrisgs 10]

Good work, exciting project, watching this and looking forward to your new release's, thanks.

[caprera 0]

This work is really important. Should be a top priority for those able to help in particular to make it available to everybody with every mod...

[cole 0]

I can definitely see you working on a future BIS milsim! Excellent work, this will completely change the look AI as we know it.

If anyone is going to say "ArmA2 AI sucks even if I'm using AI mods" after you release it, he'll win a free roundhouse kick to Mars!

Edited November 9, 2009 by Cole

[caprera 0]

completely quote Cole... :D

[Flash Thunder 10]

Man I cannot wait for this!!!!!!!! :D

Im tired of seeing the same thing from the AI, gets shot its the ground does a 180 spin and kills you, and doesn't fallback or use available cover.

The only thing I wish that Arma 2 could've from Dragon Rising is its AI.

[markushaze 10]

The only thing I wish that Arma 2 could've from Dragon Rising is its AI.

@Flash Thunder Now i hope you are NOT serious...

else i have to ask you what you were smoking.......

Arma 2 AI has its flaws, but its LIGHTYEARS ahead of Floperation Crashpoint dumptruck in da rice !

sorry for my bad language :-)

[mrcash2009 0]

The only thing I wish that Arma 2 could've from Dragon Rising is its AI.

** top tip ... hide that part of the post ** :)

Joking, but you have to remember this is all totaly unscipted and on large scales more open than DR.

I dont think it will dissapoint, whats been posted so far and updates against patch betas, all looking sweet.

[caprera 0]

Ofp2 ai ?!?! :D

[OrdeaL 10]

Yea OFP2 AI as in moving in bounds and taking cover...shit game love there AI.

Hey fabrizio_T any chance u can just release this as beta or whatever so we can start having better games :P we dont mind if u update it once a week anyway cause its not gonna be a big download

p.s. Worth a try right? ;)

[caprera 0]

Worth a QUOTE ;)

[fabrizio_t 58]

Yea OFP2 AI as in moving in bounds and taking cover...shit game love there AI.

Hey fabrizio_T any chance u can just release this as beta or whatever so we can start having better games :P we dont mind if u update it once a week anyway cause its not gonna be a big download

p.s. Worth a try right? ;)

For sure i'll release some alpha version, but still plenty of work should be done before.

In its current state FlexiAI is working really fine under some circumstances, but yet it has big limitations and still lacks both reliability and consistency.

I think it would make no sense releasing stuff now.

As a sidenote let me say that ArmA2 AI IS basically pretty good, it just lacks some features and seriously deserves some bugfixing and a better polish.

Consider that 80% of the features you've seen in the FlexiAI videos, bounding overwatch included, are just plain vanilla ArmA2 features.

I'm not reinventing anything here, my task is just overlaying some missing "leadership" on top of a already good AI and fine-tuning some existing stuff ;)

BTW: i don't own OFP: DR; so i can't compare vs. ArmA2 AI ... thought OFP: DR AI is mostly scripted, like in COD series?

Edited November 10, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[jibemorel 10]

Yea OFP2 AI as in moving in bounds and taking cover...shit game love there AI.

Me too :rolleyes: : http://www.youtube.com/user/Squigibo#p/u/7/Crw4jBk0Z2A

[Chrisgs 10]

Thanks for the vid jibemore, guess i wont be buying ofp2 any time soon then.

[Flash Thunder 10]

@Flash Thunder Now i hope you are NOT serious...

else i have to ask you what you were smoking.......

Arma 2 AI has its flaws, but its LIGHTYEARS ahead of Floperation Crashpoint dumptruck in da rice !

sorry for my bad language :-)

** top tip ... hide that part of the post ** :)

Joking, but you have to remember this is all totaly unscipted and on large scales more open than DR.

I dont think it will dissapoint, whats been posted so far and updates against patch betas, all looking sweet.

Have you ever tried the Ultimate AI Mod for OFP DR, if you have you would know what Im talking about, Light Years ahead of Arma 2 hit the deck AI.

Wow I got alot of quotes from that, I see alot of people on here are Extremely Biased.

Try it yourself before you say it sucks.

@Jibemoral: Yeah those videos are hilarious watched all of his AI videos but thats the VANILLA AI without the Ultimate AI Mod made by: TemplarFX ;)

Edited November 10, 2009 by Flash Thunder
@

[froggyluv 2130]

Have you ever tried the Ultimate AI Mod for OFP DR, if you have you would know what Im talking about, Light Years ahead of Arma 2 hit the deck AI.

Wow I got alot of quotes from that, I see alot of people on here are Extremely Biased.

Try it yourself before you say it sucks.

@Jibemoral: Yeah those videos are hilarious watched all of his AI videos but thats the VANILLA AI without the Ultimate AI Mod made by: TemplarFX ;)

I've played Ultimate AI and it did imrove upon Vanilla which was horrible. I think the increased spotting + engagement values of the mod allowed the AI to make proper adjustments. One thing that is better in DR's AI is that they seem to stay more focused on the threat at hand -meaning, I've seen my AI squaddies in Arma2 aiming out towards the sea when the only known threat were in the opposite direction.

Wouldn't go as far as to say it's light years ahead of Arma2's AI though...