PC Discussion Thread II - All PC related discussion goes here.

[vilas 477]

okay, so tell me, will it not limit power:

Nvidia 660 GTX, AMD 6100 box cooler, 4 GB ram, Asus M5A97 or M5A78 ???

such strong VGA and "low end" CPU ? okay for Arma2/3 ?

new 660GTX has lower power usage than 560 as I see for few Wattss

[papanowel 120]

For the GPU it is definitely good for A3 but I don't know about the CPU.

It must be all right anyway.

[vilas 477]

and 550W Corsair should make it work ? i read that new VGAs (660, 650) are less power hungry than older 560, is it true?

[spooky lynx 73]

Try this thing - it may help you with PSU.

[xeno426 10]

One option to getting a cheaper variant of Windows 7 would be to purchase it OEM. This locks your version of Windows to your current motherboard, but you can usually get the software for far cheaper; I'm currently running an OEM version of Windows 7 Ultimate that I got for $100 USD.

[vilas 477]

but 100 USD OEM in PL cost ... http://www.morele.net/komputery/oprogramowanie/systemy-operacyjne-196/0.00,0.00,,,,,,,,1997O184032.184031,1994O361528.361527,14363O184016/1/#product_list

120 USD for HOME !!! Ultimate cost ... uuuuuuuuuuuuuu Pro OEM costs nearly 170 USD here , it is M$ policy in my area (not starting offtopic discussion about pir... level in some areas of our globe)

if in your country you can buy Ultimate for 100 USD than you see for yourself... in my country i have to pay for it 2-3 times more to be legal, i live in Poland , not in normal country, so i have to pay 2-3 times more for M$ products to be legal

Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 32bit SP1 PL OEM

FQC-04629

Licencja: OEM

Typ: 7 Professional

539,00 zl

539 ZÅ/PLN divide by 3.1 and you have price in USD + it is cheap internet shop

and remind, it is not Ultimate you said, it is PRO

in EU we have so called VAT tax, US prices + 20-25% more + custom tax 9-10% ... + other taxes

Edited October 4, 2012 by vilas

[xeno426 10]

What does Home and Pro regular cost in Poland as opposed to their OEM variants, though?

[papanowel 120]

One option to getting a cheaper variant of Windows 7 would be to purchase it OEM. This locks your version of Windows to your current motherboard, but you can usually get the software for far cheaper;

Are you sure that the Win 7 OEM version is locked? I'm not that sure.

and 550W Corsair should make it work ? i read that new VGAs (660, 650) are less power hungry than older 560, is it true?

550W must be enough. If you really want to be OK you might take a 600+ W

[vilas 477]

What does Home and Pro regular cost in Poland as opposed to their OEM variants, though?

in Poland PL windows M$ costs are:

http://www.morele.net/komputery/oprogramowanie/systemy-operacyjne-196/0.00,0.00,,,,,,,,1997O184032,1994O361527.361528.361529,14363O184016/1/#product_list

535 Home Box

1029 Pro Box

1080 Ultimate Box

1 PLN=30 cents

1 USD = 3.1 PLN

1 CAD = 2 PLN (Canadian Dollar, AUS dollar )

[xeno426 10]

Yep, the OEM variants cost about half of what the box ones do. It's just an option worth considering.

[vilas 477]

what are US/Canadian prices ? (ACTA war)

[papanowel 120]

what are US/Canadian prices ? (ACTA war)

A bit cheaper than Polish one:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_7?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=windows+7&sprefix=windows%2Caps%2C120

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/shop

[vilas 477]

those prices in our part of the world are unfair

65% difference , 200 vs 330 USD makes difference , eh...

comparing to our salaries Windows PL should cost 40 USD for Pro at max and max 20 USD at Belarus or Albania or Ukraine etc.

Windows is 10 times overpriced here comparing to US

Edited October 4, 2012 by vilas

[Bee8190 10]

@Vilas no need to bother with mortar shops to buy windows. You can easily download one off of MS store or elsewhere. If you have windows XP you should also be able to upgrade, further reducing the price.

If you have two friends who could use a new windows you can get a package of win 7 with license for 3 PC's here - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-Windows-Premium-Upgrade-Licence/dp/B002MT21N6/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1349367658&sr=8-9

More win7 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_kk_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Awindows+7&keywords=windows+7&ie=UTF8&qid=1349367612

and download off of MS UK - http://emea.microsoftstore.com/UK/en-GB/Microsoft/Windows/Windows-7

As for the CPU, while the FX 6100 price of some 130Eur is alright, even Intel i3 is better and more efficient. I strongly recommend not bothering with anything else than i5. You may spend a little on FX CPU right now but it will chase you back in not time begging for upgrade again. I'd also suggest hunting for a bargain of ebay. Just pick one that has plenty of feedback. I have pleasant experience mostly with german sellers but I'm far from regular e-buyer.

If you could trip to germany as mentioned, have a look at this page. It's all in german but once you register you can switch to english and I'm sure store like this will have a collect from store point.

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p688676_Intel-Core-i5-2500-4x-3-30GHz-So-1155-BOX.html

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p808125_Intel-Core-i5-3470-4x-3-20GHz-So-1155-TRAY.html

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p790406_Intel-Core-i5-3330-4x-3-00GHz-So-1155-BOX.html

GTX - I'm still positive the 550Ti or HD 7770 would serve you well and as for the above question wheather your CPU would bottleneck your 660, yes, the FX would not use its fullest potential of that GFX card.

EDIT - I selfishly keep talking about ENGLISH versions, not realizing you may be looking for PL version, correct? It didn't occur to me as, even though ENG isn't my first language, I personally can't stand non english version of windows

Edited October 4, 2012 by Bee8190

[vilas 477]

i5 is double price to AMD

also mainboards for Intel are as i see almost double priced (socket 1155)

not saying about socket 2011 which is 3 times more expensive (at least here )

5 INTEL CORE i5-3450 QuadCore 3.10 Ghz ( 6MB L3 cache, 77W, 22nm ) BOX 750.00

6 INTEL CORE i5-3470 QuadCore 3.20 Ghz ( 6MB L3 cache, 77W, 22nm ) BOX 780.00

7 INTEL CORE i5-3550 QuadCore 3.30 Ghz ( 6MB L3 cache, 77W, 22nm ) BOX 810.00

8 INTEL CORE i5-3570 QuadCore 3.40 Ghz ( 6MB L3 cache, 90W, 22nm ) BOX 840.00

9 INTEL CORE i5-2500K QuadCore 3.30 Ghz ( 6MB L3 cache, 95W ) BOX 880.00

10 INTEL CORE i5-3570K QuadCore 3.40 Ghz ( 6MB L3 cache, 90W, 22nm ) BOX 920.00

11 INTEL CORE i7-3770 QuadCore 3.40 Ghz ( 8MB L3 cache, 77W, 22nm ) BOX 1180.00

12 INTEL CORE i7-3770K QuadCore 3.50 Ghz ( 8MB L3 cache, 77W, 22nm ) BOX 1310.00

and 2011 mainboards:

1 ASROCK X79 EXTREME3 INTEL X79 ( RAID, S-ATA 3, 4x DDR3, USB 3.0 ) SOUND, LAN 10/100/1000 770.00

2 ASUS P9X79 INTEL X79 ( RAID, S-ATA 3, 8x DDR3, USB 3.0 ) SOUND, LAN 10/100/1000, IEEE1394 1000.00

3 ASUS P9X79 PRO INTEL X79 ( RAID, S-ATA 3, 8x DDR3, USB 3.0 ) SOUND, LAN 10/100/1000, IEEE1394 1250.00

4 ASUS SABERTOOTH INTEL X79 ( RAID, S-ATA 3, 8x DDR3, USB 3.0 ) SOUND, LAN 10/100/1000, IEEE1394 1340.00

5 ASUS P9X79 DELUXE INTEL X79 ( RAID, S-ATA 3, 8x DDR3, USB 3.0 ) SOUND,2xLAN 10/100/1000, IEEE1394 1440.00

6 ASUS P9X79 WS INTEL X79 ( RAID, S-ATA 3, 8x DDR3, USB 3.0 ) SOUND,2xLAN 10/100/1000, IEEE1394, FORMAT CEB 1440.00

7 ASUS RAMPAGE IV FORMULA3 INTEL X79 ( RAID, S-ATA 3, 8x DDR3, USB 3.0 ) SOUND, LAN 10/100/1000, IEEE1394 1440.00

8 ASUS RAMPAGE IV EXTREME3 INTEL X79 ( RAID, S-ATA 3, 8x DDR3, USB 3.0 ) SOUND, LAN 10/100/1000, IEEE1394 1660.00

compare with

1 AMD X4 FX-4100 ( 3600 Mhz/3800 Mhz TURBO, 12MB cache, 95W ) BOX 430.00

2 AMD X6 FX-6100 ( 3300 Mhz/3900 Mhz TURBO, 12MB cache, 95W ) BOX 470.00

3 AMD X4 FX-4170 ( 4200 Mhz, 12MB cache, 125W ) BOX 510.00

4 AMD X6 FX-6200 ( 3800 Mhz, 12MB cache, 125W ) BOX 550.00

5 AMD X8 FX-8120 ( 3100 Mhz/4000 Mhz TURBO, 16MB cache, 125W ) BOX 630.00

6 AMD X8 FX-8150 ( 3600 Mhz/4200 Mhz TURBO, 16MB cache, 125W ) BOX 760.00

AMD + mobo is 700-900 PLN

Intel i5 1155 + mobo is 1100-1500 PLN, at least 100 Eu difference and what for this HD2000 inside ? if i buy VGA anyway ?

Intel i7 2011 is 2000-3000 PLN

so you think that GTX 560 for such AM CPU would be almost as effective as GTX660 (which will not use it's power because it is not Intel)

i do not say abot Ti, cause price difference between 560 Ti and 660 not Ti is small while in tests they say that 660 not TI is almost twice stronger than 560Ti

and of course in UK shop i can't buy PL language windows ;)

Edited October 4, 2012 by vilas

[Tonci87 163]

@Vilas no need to bother with mortar shops to buy windows. You can easily download one off of MS store or elsewhere. If you have windows XP you should also be able to upgrade, further reducing the price.

If you have two friends who could use a new windows you can get a package of win 7 with license for 3 PC's here - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-Windows-Premium-Upgrade-Licence/dp/B002MT21N6/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1349367658&sr=8-9

More win7 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_kk_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Awindows+7&keywords=windows+7&ie=UTF8&qid=1349367612

and download off of MS UK - http://emea.microsoftstore.com/UK/en-GB/Microsoft/Windows/Windows-7

As for the CPU, while the FX 6100 price of some 130Eur is alright, even Intel i3 is better and more efficient. I strongly recommend not bothering with anything else than i5. You may spend a little on FX CPU right now but it will chase you back in not time begging for upgrade again. I'd also suggest hunting for a bargain of ebay. Just pick one that has plenty of feedback. I have pleasant experience mostly with german sellers but I'm far from regular e-buyer.

If you could trip to germany as mentioned, have a look at this page. It's all in german but once you register you can switch to english and I'm sure store like this will have a collect from store point.

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p688676_Intel-Core-i5-2500-4x-3-30GHz-So-1155-BOX.html

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p808125_Intel-Core-i5-3470-4x-3-20GHz-So-1155-TRAY.html

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p790406_Intel-Core-i5-3330-4x-3-00GHz-So-1155-BOX.html

GTX - I'm still positive the 550Ti or HD 7770 would serve you well and as for the above question wheather your CPU would bottleneck your 660, yes, the FX would not use its fullest potential of that GFX card.

EDIT - I selfishly keep talking about ENGLISH versions, not realizing you may be looking for PL version, correct? It didn't occur to me as, even though ENG isn't my first language, I personally can't stand non english version of windows

Definately recommend Mindfactory, Great Shop with good prices.

They have their store at Wilhelmshaven

[vilas 477]

but of course i am concerned that I5 would be 2 times better than 8core AMD, i know it , look at FPS tests on Polish benchmark using Arma2 as benchmark

http://pclab.pl/art50465-10.html

FPS comparision

it would mean that i still collect donations for i5 ? i already have money to buy AMD FX 6100 + 560GTX Nvidia, for GTX660 and i5 i would need much more waiting (i am not patient) :/

what i5 you'd recommend than ? look at list from shop i shown post above, 3470, 3450, 3550,03570, and what for is that HD2000 if i get another VGA ? what for ?

i cannot understand why the hell they made VGA in CPU, really do not understand , cause VGA is separate part

Edited October 4, 2012 by vilas

[Bee8190 10]

@Villas I was talking about GTX 550 Ti, not 560Ti :)

The AMD FX - cpu is some 135Eur, according to currency converter. The Intels i5's I linked in the post above start from some 160Eur for new. I understand you're on very tight budget but I guarantee the 30-40Eur difference will be significant in the long run, especially for arma. Again, I'd strongly recommend looking at ebay for second hand piece. Friend of mine is buying stuff off of ebay all the time (PC-HW) and never had any issues whatsoever really.

As in per link - http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p790406_Intel-Core-i5-3330-4x-3-00GHz-So-1155-BOX.html

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p808125_Intel-Core-i5-3470-4x-3-20GHz-So-1155-TRAY.html

http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p688676_Intel-Core-i5-2500-4x-3-30GHz-So-1155-BOX.html

These are the least I'd try to get and recommend.

The VGA on CPU's can serve as back up should you for any reason have to send back your dedicated but obviously the main reason is that some people (non gamers ;) ) doesn't require dedicated GFX but still obviously need some for video playback and the likes.

As for Mboards, there are cheaper alternatives and just as good as ASUS. Asrock offers fat package at very reasonable prices.

The windows thingy - Let me put it this way; If you're happy or don't mind english version you can look in UK or whole web where to get new windos for better prices than back at home.

@Tonci - Thanks for clarification, I registered with them times ago when I was looking for something PC related that I couldn't find in my area but changed my mind in the end though.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Bee8190

[vilas 477]

so what exactly model of i5 i should take ? or even lowest model of i5 (shown above in my quotes from local shop) is stronger than AMD 6200, 6100 ? seems so ? if in Arma there would be a difference like 25 and 40 FPS it is probably worth, but other issue is VGA , than 660 would be best choice ? or 560 ? cause accoring to benchmarks 660 is twice stronger than 560 ? for me difference 660+i5 vs AMD+560 is 500 pln=130 eu and probably twice more fps

Edited October 4, 2012 by vilas

[spooky lynx 73]

Some days ago my VGA driver died, and another built-in videocard (in my MB) helped me a lot in reinstalling drivers. So I'd say some simple built-in videocard is quite useful in such kind of situations.

[vilas 477]

i5 3550/3570 ? or not big difference ? price difference is also small

mobo Asus P8H61/USB3 for it ?

and most quiet MSI 660 GTX (accord. to the benchm. MSI is most quiet)

good choice ? (i can have it for 530 EU (of course box cause shop assembles it with box, not pieces itself, but shop assemble + CPU SilentiumPC Fera Pro HE1224 cooler for 25EU (unless BOX cooler is silent without doing OC) + Corsair DDR3, 2x2 GB, 1600 Mhz, CL9, XMS3 with Classic Heat Spreader), i have 350 EU right now) without OS of course

and of course my old DVD, 550W Corsair psu (it is PCI-E ready, iX ready too, cause it is PSU from 2010)

Edited October 5, 2012 by vilas

[papanowel 120]

For the mobo it's maybe better to get a P8Z77 instead of the old P8H61.

[Bee8190 10]

For the mobo it's maybe better to get a P8Z77 instead of the old P8H61.

Indeed Z77 would be better choice. I too thought that some Z68 gen Mboards could do it (we're on budget here :) ) but the price (no) difference just doesn't justify it.

Any i5 will. Just pick up one that is highest clocked (usually K versions) for the best price. Admittedly, seeing as amazon list the 2500K - 3750K for about the same price the choice is up to you.

Also the XMS3 ram sticks come at 1.65V I believe. I need to double check but 1.65V for RAM is no longer required nor recommended by intel as they claim it could damage the CPU. Let me know if the RAM is indeed 1.65V.

Edit -

SilentiumPC Fera Pro HE1224 cooler

I had a look at the cooler and reminds me of cooler master hyper 212 but I never heard of the above brand. From the looks of it the fan is rubbish and no doubt loud as fukk. I'd rather stick to the cooler master hyper as they are well known for their stuff.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Bee8190

[vilas 477]

460 PNL instead of 299 PLN, it makes difference , you all here say like i was living in US :P i live in poor corrupted country in which 20-25% of children are hungry (international humanitary organizations data) , 5% emigrated, 13% unemployed and usual man earns ca. 450-500 euro per month and , 150 Euro is for me big money etc.

i understand you want to say the best option for best performance but i live where i live , thanx to community i have 350 EU, without community i would not be even able to play Arma (at the moment after repairs of my 2006's PC Arma works for me for ca. 10 minutes, than freez, white screen, works again another 5-10 minutes , freeze, white screen) but at least Oxygen works :D

understand my position, for me this 50% of price difference between P8Z77 and P8H61 is big difference , i was talking with bank, they want 4,31 PLN per Euro,

so now when i found "bank Euro exchange rate" i see that differences between Polish and German shops are only 5-10%, so buying and ordering abroad is not for me when bank gives Euro exch. rate 4.31 when transfer (every bank does the same, they do not take big money for transfer, no, they take big exchange rate, so you cannot transfer cheap money, it is banksters job, they say "you pay only 20cents for transfer" but when you see exchange rate it is 4.31 PLN/1EU, while NBP (National Bank) gives "official average exchange rate 4.11"

bank buys Euro per 4.01 from you, but sells you Euro per 4.31, so 30 groshen by every 1 Euro (buy-sell) , just calculate yourself difference ,

i order something for 200 Euro or i pay You 200 Euro:

bank tells me to pay 862 ZÅ‚oty for it

i get 200 Euro from you

i get 802 ZÅ‚oty

where is 60 ZÅ‚otys ??? they took away 15 Euro from 200 Euro transaction

(the same does Paypal and others , someone gave me 100 USD, i get 95.40 USD per 3,11 so it is 299 PLN, but if i would like to pay 100 USD i would be charged for 325 PLN at ease)

look at example :

someone gives me 100 bucks

paypal say i get 95

95*3,11=296PL PLN

so i am getting 296PL PLN

now i want to buy something abroad and i pay for it in US shop

296/3,21= 92 bucks

see ? 8 bucks disappeared

so you see... it is banks' job

having one currency in all countries have its disadvantages and advantages, noone from You will take exchange rate, but from me too, although i am not euro-currency lover , but when buying abroad it makes sense

Edited October 5, 2012 by vilas

[Bee8190 10]

@Villas thats because you're looking at ASUS boards. Even the cheapest asus is already overpriced for basic budget board. Don't you read my links ? :)