Team vs Team Gametypes Poll

[Tom_Anger 0]

Some of us have been working on Team vs Team (real players vs real players) gametypes using very good gameplay scripts by [sBS]mac and some have yet to release and host them. This is upcoming and may be new to some.

While moving forward I wanted to get an idea of what some folks would be interested in playing either 'as an event' or even going as far as possibly 'fun competitions' with pickup teams or in a league if possible. I am going to keep Berzerk, Advance & Secure, and Warfare out of the mix on this poll because this poll is regarding gametypes using short rounds and honors 4 vs 4 up to 8 vs 8.

Most, if not all maps are 'small scaled' placing you back in the action almost on each respawn and each round can be anywhere from 10, 15, 20, 30 minutes long, but most will probably be 15 minutes. Consistency on the mission layouts and settings will go a long way with the community. More detailed descriptions of the gametypes are listed after the list... I personally like them all, lol.

Poll choices we have are:

• Capture The Flag
  
• Capture & Hold - Team King Of The Hill
  
• Team Death Match
  
• Attack & Defend (with 1 simple objective and no respawns)
  
• Deathmatch - Player with most points wins
  
• Deathmatch - Last man standing
  
• Other - if possible, specify
  

Gametype Explanations (for those not 100% sure of what they mean.

Capture The Flag

A restricted fight zone where players fight to get to the enemy flag and bring back to their flag post for points. Team with the most points or reaches the point limit wins. Sounds arcadish to some, however, choosing who defends your flag and who goes out to get the flag brings attack & defend and Team Death Match into the mix. An all around fun way to compete...

Capture & Hold - Team King Of The Hill

A restricted fight zone where players fight to control 1 zone on the map for the round. Holding the zone gains 5 pts per second and the team who reaches the point limit or has the most points at the end of the round wins. Good design calls for protected spawns and a small zone that players can easily identify on the map (i.e. using flags or other objects).

Team Death Match

A restricted fight zone where players go head to head to find good spots and accumulate as many enemy kills as they can for the win. Good design calls for protected spawns, but not fool proof to allow people to attack the spawn as best as they can if possible, but not easy to do. In TDM one desire is to try and control the enemy spawn so allow it, but make it difficult requiring teamwork. There are ways to accomplish this.

Attack & Defend (with 1 simple objective)

This can be optional, but at the moment Attack & Defend is best competed with 'no respawns' allowing spectator mode for those who die to view the rest of the round through the living players eyes. Mission objectives should be simple (i.e. Get 1 player in a zone for 10 seconds, Protect a hostage, get a player to a safe location before time expires (vip), destroy a weapons cache, destroy a vehicle, etc.). Also in this game if a team is able to fully eliminate the other team that also gets a win for the surviving team. Folks who recall COD 4 AAD will relate.

Deathmatch - Player with most points wins

A free for all as players look to accumulate the most kills in the round to win.

Deathmatch - Last man standing

A free for all as players look to eliminate each other. When they die they are placed into spectator mode to review the rest of the round through the surviving player's eyes. The last player left standing wins that round. In a league this could be a good element for getting representatives from groups together to fight for points. Have 3-5 DM rounds and get points for your team, but this is also something that could be fun for small groups to enjoy fighting for.

I was going to add Capture & Hold - Domination which is just like the Team King Of The Hill version only there are more than 1 base to fight for and the 1st team to win all bases or have the most points as time expires wins the round. Only possible downfall to this is you realy need many players or folks just chase each other around alot with little fghting so I kept that out of the poll options.

With the info gathered here I think some of us can also discuss consistency with round settings, styles of maps, preferred maps meaning we develop our own rating system to approve some and to reject others based on design, balancing, and overall gameplay.

Happy Gaming all...

Edited September 18, 2009 by Tom_Anger
Figured out how to use poll

[Tom_Anger 0]

I realize not everyone visits the forums, but after day 1 we have 16 voters. I'm not upset or dissapointed, however, if anyone can spread the word on this post I think it can help. I enjoy Warfare, Berzerk, and Advance & Secure like many others, but to get short round style games for gatherings, events, and possible tournaments, this poll will be a key element I would think.

Might I ask that some folks who are registered at clan sites or other community sites make a forum post there with:

Subject title called: Multiplayer Gametype Poll

and in the body just say - mission designers event coordinators, and tournament directors are looking for gametype feedback so please fill in the poll and offer suggestions. Then give the link to this post. Much appreciated. Thanks.

[Flightster 10]

My votes:

- Capture The Flag

- Capture & Hold

- Other:

Small scaled aas maps are usually pretty damn fun, they offer intense action and force people to work as a team.

[Lester 0]

-Other:

Coop brings (with the right missions) the atmospheric SP feeling to MP that is a very rare thing in games.

When i want to play only PvP there are other games with faster gameplay would rock me a lot more than ArmA 2, but in Coop there is absolutly no alternative if you don't would play the same Missions over and over again. :p

[whisper 0]

OP was about competition oriented MP. I fail to see how you can implement competition oriented coop....

[Tom_Anger 0]

-Other:

Coop brings (with the right missions) the atmospheric SP feeling to MP that is a very rare thing in games.

When i want to play only PvP there are other games with faster gameplay would rock me a lot more than ArmA 2, but in Coop there is absolutly no alternative if you don't would play the same Missions over and over again. :p

Although my post is in relation to Team vs Team there are alternative methods to implement coop into events and tournaments. Alpha Squad has done stuff like this in the past for GR. Here is an example of an archived event.

http://specialdetachment.org/tourney2007/

http://specialdetachment.org/tourney2007/servlet.php?act=alpha

http://specialdetachment.org/tourney2007/servlet.php?act=bravo

http://specialdetachment.org/tourney2007/servlet.php?act=charlie

Check out their site in regards to the Leaderboards, rules, etc. I bet armaleague or some other league may be able to help implement something like this where a 60 minute coop for competition is developed and gamers can sign up, join a group for the event and compete.

Nice reply - although I still would like to keep on topic being in an actual Team vs Team atmosphere. Your reply may be something of worth to some tournament/league readers. :-)

Edited September 18, 2009 by Tom_Anger

[CaptainBravo 0]

The game offeres many more TvT options than the old boring capture flag and hold sector!

Such as:

- Hunt the Prey. 2 human teams (Russian and American) Hunt a human player(s)

- Assasination: Human has to protect VIP riding in a convoy against ambush while other team plans and ambush the convoy.

- Chopper shut down and SF team (Human players) tries to fight its way out of a city surrounded by rebels (human players)

There are so many other options, ideas taken from major headline news.

The beauty of the editor is you can take any miltary operation and translate it into editor.

[Tom_Anger 0]

Agreed Captain. I think ARMA 2 turned away a good number of prospective players because many were used to the basic 1 team vs another team with some simple objective to do. I'd still like to try and capture that simple element of gameplay to see if some of the folks designing missions can possibly keep or continue to develop some followers. Then open up alternatives to what you spoke about. I recall being a camera man in a TVT misson one time, totally lost, but it was funny with me going around watching stuff and recording with fraps, lol.

Good stuff...

[BCA Cat Toaster 10]

Voted "Other", which is the one and only Advance and Secure to go for. The only reason for playing ArmA2 at all for me.

[galzohar 31]

The problem isn't making the missions, it's having servers host them and players play them. Attack/defend type missions with a simple objective are actually pretty easy to make.

[Bad Pilot 0]

If you're designing PvP missions, you might want to consider tuning them for Clanbase, as our petition for Arma2 ladders and leagues there has been successful.

[Tom_Anger 0]

I don't think there will be a full consistency of games like these hosted until some eggs are broken and some of us put our heads together. And at that I think some of these are still more successful with planning and setup as an event.

I used to work with some gamers in the Novalogic community alot and on some weekends we would setup 2 or 3 clan servers up to host a PVP pack. We had three 64 player AAS servers fill up on the weekend and other AAD servers running Permanent Death events. AAS was 64 player servers and the AAD were 16 player servers.

The AAS zones were soo huge the 2 neutral bases overlapped each other and a plethra of helis and tanks along with anti-tank and anti-air weapons were used. This was back in 03-04 when JO was thriving. Also a knockout tournament were worked on by me for G.R.A.W. where 16 teams would setup 4v4 up to 8v8 games with optional gametypes and a month of fun leaving 2 teams in the end and in the spotlight.

Not to go into too many details, but with this poll I am sure something decent will come out of it. The 1st thing is to figure out what folks would be interested in then we give it a go.

If Clanbase, ArmALeagues, or other tournament sites are interested then I would say we can discuss this once we have a pack compiled and an event setup. I am thinking on something mid-end of October with some hype built up, but for now lets keep this poll going.

[.kju 3245]

Tom Anger I have applied as ARMA 2 Game Supervisor at ClanBase.

You might be interest to help out?

It would be nice to establish an AAS league over there, as well as getting other

PvP concepts part of it or as separate league(s).

[whisper 0]

CB has a A2 ladder? :O good, good!

[Tom_Anger 0]

Tom Anger I have applied as ARMA 2 Game Supervisor at ClanBase.

You might be interest to help out?

It would be nice to establish an AAS league over there, as well as getting other

PvP concepts part of it or as separate league(s).

Thanks. I have ideas for AAS that will work as well as others, plus fun tournament ideas, but I am kind of discussing in the background with [sBS]mac.

[Pico 10]

Hello World,

I bought this game for a lot of good reason but one was because I tought I could play the same kind of gameplay has of the non-official AWARD winning "Project Reality" Mod for Battlefield 2 from Black Sand Studios.

You need to gather intelligence by capturing or killing enemies to reveal weapon caches, for capture. Attack and Defend style. I like this mode a lot !!

I suggest that map should not be too big.

This is by far, the best teamwork gameplay I ever seen! Even with their bugs!!

I know nothing is perfect and of course there are a bunch of morons in PR too whos takes an humvee in a hurry without taking anybody with him even if he could have waited no more than 5 seconds an pickup easily up to 3 teammates at spawn.

That is sad. People needs education.

Most of the times gameplay gets bad just because of situations like this and not because of "bad programming". Take GTA4 for example: Isn't it the game where you can find the largest quantity morons (mostly cheaters) at the same place? and the most times you can see the word "Gay" in the chat as well as the letter "F" and "U" :D Incredible! ...and I bought it :S

Okay okay back to the subject....

The only Team VS Team mode I've seen in Arma 2 is a weird/fun Cops and Robber mode called "Chernarus Life".

Is other Team VS Team modes that I don't know ?

I can at least say that when you check in the server list, it is not clear... there seem to be no standards and it looks that every mode is homemade.

I may suggest a "Convoy" mode could be an idea too.

If you look at "Wolfenstein Enemy Territory" or "Team Fortress 2" for example, there are "trains on rails" that needs to be accompained for them to reach destination. Convoy could be trucks too. Obviously in these game the convoy is undestructible, but nothing says it cannot be...

Attack and Defend style again. Fun! Fun! Fun!

I have a lot of ideas in my head, always... an i always ask my self why is it always the same 2 or 3 different modes that we always see from one game to another.

I seen a game where when you kill someone, he ends up in your jail and the other team need to press the button somewhere in an office to open the jail gate to free his teammates. The team who has all it's enemies has prisonner wins. Fun!!! :)

I never seens this mode again. Sad. :( I think it's in an old "Medal of Honor"

This needs small maps "Killhouse" style and may not apply in ARMA 2.

It's a remark on the general lack of idea of gameplay.

The same map could use different gameplay. As well as the same gameplay could just change the position of it objectives, spawn point, etc... without the need of making new maps ...something they could at least do in "America's Army 3". (Only 5 maps. Yes! ONLY 5 immutable small maps)

Finally, I know AI must be hard to program and I say good job to the devs, thanks! This is a great part of the game.

But I was looking for some HI VS HI (Human Intelligence) or should I say NI (Natural Intelligence) ? ...which I guess must not be the hard part of the programming. No complaints, just saying.

Please see this discusion as a friendly comment/suggestion :rolleyes:

I know this game has A LOT of potential.

I will still wait for my "ideal" mode...

"Would you like to know more?"

Pico:cool: -I'm doing my part

[.kju 3245]

Try Devastation, Capture The Base, Advance and Secure by CoolBox or the PvP script pack by SBSMac.

[sbsmac 0]

Pico - my script-pack is intended to allow you to play around with some of these ideas. See the second half of this video

for example to see some of the things you can now do to put together 'escort' missions.

I'm always looking for ideas for new features so if it doesn't do what you want, just let me know.

Oh yes, it also has a prototype 'Insurgency' mode as in PR although that has stalled a bit due to lack of interest from the user-base.

[Tom_Anger 0]

I have 4 mission designs all setup in gametypes DM, TDM, CTF, TKOTH, and SEIGE just about done and in a short couple of days I hope to make them available - just a heads up to the viewers on this. So what ever the preference, just call up that mission and gametype and enjoy.

The missions have been in development for almost 2 months with testing and going over details so I hope at some point these will be server favored missions. Stay tuned.

[sbsmac 0]

I've been fortunate enough to playtest some of these and I can promise everybody that you are in for a treat! The level of detail Tom has put into these maps is fantastic and the gameplay options - particularly 'siege' are really compulsive. Stay tuned....

[.kju 3245]

Are these played tested in public? If so when?

[Tom_Anger 0]

I've been testing these on and off in the URBAN RESISTANCE server with mac over the past 2-3 weeks. These will have nice features to very basic gameplay where you don't have to think alot to game. Simple objective, read the notes and have all the info you need, weapon up and game...

One of the nice features is the spectator slots. If anyone is complaining of cheating all an admin or player has to do is join the Spectator slot and spy on the suspect to see if they are in fact cheating. You may not catch all the cheats, but it helps. These are mainly used for scrimmages and rounds where a referee is present......

Good stuff on the near horizon... Not to toot my own horn (nothing is perfect), but in my opinion this is a much needed gameplay pack. I even enjoy the DM missions quite a bit. Once you grasp the gameplay SEIGE and get on with 10-16 players you will see the amount of fun the game has. Laugh when you die or a friend dies - go into spectator mode and watch how your teammates try to complete the objective against the other team.

Each map is generally small in size so you don't have to run a while to game. Spawn, get your weapons (if you don't like the defaulted ones), and get into battle pretty quickly.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Tom_Anger

[sbsmac 0]

What I found interesting was how compulsive the SIEGE games were, even with just a couple of players on each side. The sneaking around really adds tension - and I speak as one who likes small-scale fast-paced CTFs ;-)

[Taxman 10]

Are they up on our server mac ?

[Binkowski 26]

A&D or AAS are my favorite. Because it actually takes teamwork to do. Not just a bunch of idiots running around killing each other. If you set one up that is realistic, (ie BLUFOR holds point A from REDFOR attack) it can be very fun and entertaining. As opposed to spawn, kill, die, repeat.