Mouse lag fix still doesn't fix the mouse turning ratio

[MehMan 0]

when I say turning ratio, I mean the speed with which you have to turn the mouse to complete a 360° turn or 180° turn. In my example, I put the mouse on one end of the mousepad. I slowly move the mouse to the other end and before I reach the middle of the mousepad(far from it) I've made a 180° turn(if I continue moving the mouse slowly to the other side of the pad I make a 720° turn) . Now if I move the mouse rapidly from one end of the pad to the other, I reach the halfway point and I've done a 60° turn.

This has been pointed out a few times by several people and I think it's worth having a look into and fixing it. Turning off mouse pointer precision does nothing, tested.

Edited September 12, 2009 by MehMan

[Mudkip 0]

That's called mouse acceleration, Windows mouse acceleration settings don't do anything because ArmA 2 uses its own system.

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

That's called mouse acceleration, Windows mouse acceleration settings don't do anything because ArmA 2 uses its own system.

I hate how so many games nowadays use all these settings exclusively for this one game, rather than using your OS settings. It has it's upsides, but it's so annoying when the game does something you can't control. Such as ArmA II has no option for mouse acceleration, only smoothing. ArmA II has no option for 5.1, 2.1, 7.1 etc speakers either...

[kklownboy 43]

That's called mouse acceleration, Windows mouse acceleration settings don't do anything because ArmA 2 uses its own system.

if i set my Logi mouse acceleration it is accelerated in the game.

On the sound/ 5.1 ect, it use the default DX sound driver, which is to your sound device. So yeah its not a "in game " option, but it is a option. Same as my mouse i can use my mouse software, and see it its effect in game.

Edited September 13, 2009 by kklownboy

[Alex72 1]

Such as ArmA II has no option for mouse acceleration, only smoothing.

We didnt even have smoothing 2 weeks ago, and now we do...

And like kklownboy i can also change speeds on my mouse directly in the game. A trick to be able to move fast back and forward that works for me (and have been working since day 1) is to lower the smooth a lot and through the nvidia cpl set Pre Rendered Frames to "1". That makes me turn super fast and easy without having to "lift the mouse" off the mat and move again.

Alex

[huendchen 0]

In ArmA you have a limited turning speed. You can't rotate your body a full 360° within a tenth of a second in real life, so you can't do it either in ArmA.

[kabong 1]

Ya but, I find that steering a ground vehicle in ARMA II is more difficult that ArmA. It is less responsive and when it finally does do something, it tends to oversteer. How do you fix that?

[bushlurker 46]

Go into vehicle controls - you'll see that "mouseleft" and "mouseright" are associated with "turn MORE left" and "turn MORE right"... delete these two binds, and rebind mouse left and right to plain old "turn left" and "turn right"....

B

[MehMan 0]

In ArmA you have a limited turning speed. You can't rotate your body a full 360° within a tenth of a second in real life, so you can't do it either in ArmA.

IT'S LIKE REAL LIFE, IT'S FINE! Seriously, think it over.

It's all about character control, like the running and stopping debacle. I am holding a mouse, not moving on my own, I need to be able to corelate the mouse turning speed with my character turning speed. Right now it's not really making sense. You turn your mouse quickly, you don't move anywhere. You move slowly, you move tons. You're not really in control if you can't control the character. All you're doing is using suggestive measures. And ArmA/ArmA2's control system is still clunky as hell. It's all as slow as it was made in a motion capture studio. Somebody should've been firing an airsoft rifle into the actor, he would've hurried up and had snappier reactions.

[Mudkip 0]

Go into vehicle controls - you'll see that "mouseleft" and "mouseright" are associated with "turn MORE left" and "turn MORE right"... delete these two binds, and rebind mouse left and right to plain old "turn left" and "turn right"....

B

OMG! Thanks.

[Delta 51 10]

In ArmA you have a limited turning speed. You can't rotate your body a full 360° within a tenth of a second in real life, so you can't do it either in ArmA.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...

call of duty fan boy, I would love to see you, in full combat gear weighing over 30 kilos, do a 360 degree turn in a tenth of a second...

this is a simulation style game, not an arcade one.

[maddogx 13]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...

call of duty fan boy, I would love to see you, in full combat gear weighing over 30 kilos, do a 360 degree turn in a tenth of a second...

this is a simulation style game, not an arcade one.

Fail. Read his post again, more thoroughly this time. :rolleyes:

It's all about character control, like the running and stopping debacle. I am holding a mouse, not moving on my own, I need to be able to corelate the mouse turning speed with my character turning speed. Right now it's not really making sense. You turn your mouse quickly, you don't move anywhere. You move slowly, you move tons. You're not really in control if you can't control the character. All you're doing is using suggestive measures. And ArmA/ArmA2's control system is still clunky as hell. It's all as slow as it was made in a motion capture studio. Somebody should've been firing an airsoft rifle into the actor, he would've hurried up and had snappier reactions.

Correlating mouse movement speed with character turning speed will only ever work 100% if character movement is just as uninhibited as the mouse is. Since the turning speed is limited, a short and fast mouse movement will obviously have less effect than a long, slow one over the same distance. The only way to remedy this would be to remove the limits on turning speed.

[jw custom 56]

when I say turning ratio, I mean the speed with which you have to turn the mouse to complete a 360° turn or 180° turn. In my example, I put the mouse on one end of the mousepad. I slowly move the mouse to the other end and before I reach the middle of the mousepad(far from it) I've made a 180° turn(if I continue moving the mouse slowly to the other side of the pad I make a 720° turn) . Now if I move the mouse rapidly from one end of the pad to the other, I reach the halfway point and I've done a 60° turn.

This has been pointed out a few times by several people and I think it's worth having a look into and fixing it. Turning off mouse pointer precision does nothing, tested.

Yes please now that we got it to BF2 spinning around style could we then also make CS style please please let it be so unreal and about who got the best mouse please please.... LAME :mad:

It's fine as is, please don't listen to the fraggers :eek:

[anessen 10]

I agree that it shouldn't be 100% synced to the mouse movement like in CS Source, because that is totally unrealistic and does not promote the sort of gameplay we are after. Even so, there are mouse control issues that really ruin the game for me at the moment. Even at decent frames per second there is some mouse latency, even with Vsync and pre-rendered frames to 0.

I can acquire a target in my crosshairs in real life faster than I can in a game, simply because the feel is totally out. I can appreciate capping the maximum speed that you can move, but the lag and odd pointer acceleration wreck the experience because they make movement in the game unpredictable.

[Alex72 1]

That comes with experience in the game though. I felt it was hard in the beginning. Not anymore. The occasional fast paced DM games im doing tells me my aim is fast and good. :)

Could it be a bit better? Maybe, but please for everything that is holy - no super movement a la CS/BF2 that some people seem to want. Not the correct game for that.

[anessen 10]

I've played OFP and ArmA for years, the aiming system in OFP was much much better because it was more responsive. The mouse in ArmA and ArmA 2 has a certain lag to it. Maybe it's because my system is slower so the effect is more pronounced. Higher frames mask the problem because it brute forces through it, pumping out more frames per second.

[kabong 1]

Go into vehicle controls - you'll see that "mouseleft" and "mouseright" are associated with "turn MORE left" and "turn MORE right"... delete these two binds, and rebind mouse left and right to plain old "turn left" and "turn right"....B

3FFIN' BRILLIANT Bushlurker!! You are my hero for the rest of the day. Thanks! ;)

[MehMan 0]

You can't rotate your body a full 360° within a tenth of a second in real life, so you can't do it either in ArmA.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...

call of duty fan boy, I would love to see you, in full combat gear weighing over 30 kilos, do a 360 degree turn in a tenth of a second...

this is a simulation style game, not an arcade one.

Way to miss my point.

I can acquire a target in my crosshairs in real life faster than I can in a game, simply because the feel is totally out. I can appreciate capping the maximum speed that you can move, but the lag and odd pointer acceleration wreck the experience because they make movement in the game unpredictable.

Yes, that's the deal. It just feels as if there's a bunch of bricks tied to my charater's arms and the faster he tries to move the more it slows him down.

Anyway, here's a vid I made to demonstrate what's bother me:

6_R9JkpmMpg

Not input lag, but just that the slower I move my mouse, the faster my character turns.

Edited September 15, 2009 by MehMan

[nkenny 1057]

I've played OFP and ArmA for years, the aiming system in OFP was much much better because it was more responsive. The mouse in ArmA and ArmA 2 has a certain lag to it. Maybe it's because my system is slower so the effect is more pronounced. Higher frames mask the problem because it brute forces through it, pumping out more frames per second.

This has been my experience as well.

[{sas}stalker 10]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...

call of duty fan boy, I would love to see you, in full combat gear weighing over 30 kilos, do a 360 degree turn in a tenth of a second...

this is a simulation style game, not an arcade one.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAHHAHAHAH I would love you see you a misread a post, then post some abuse at the author of said post and actually reiterate his point in your mocking whilst making a knob of yourself.

Oh wait, you already did......

[zeep 3]

Doesn't the in-game translation of fast mouse movement rely a lot on the mouse it's dpi? I've always thought that slower mouse movements translate better (in games) because the fast mouse movement doesn't 'send' enough 'movement-data' to windows, unless the mouse has a lot of dpi.

[nkenny 1057]

@Zeep

In this case the 'problem' is related to the gun-animations I think. There seems to be some blending between animations or something that is probably intended as a feature.

I've experimented a bit and the problem is not related to the mouse DPI. I've got a Logitech G9 (and I've messed around with the Different DPI settings). The mouse-frenzy is definitely tied to to the 'gun' animations as you do NOT experience Mouse acceleration when looking in 'Freelook' mode.

-K

[MehMan 0]

Opened a ticket here:

http://dev-heaven.net/issues/show/4491

[whisper 0]

To me, this is just your maximum turn speed that kicks in. If there's some acceleration configured on mouse, who knows....

[maddogx 13]

To me, this is just your maximum turn speed that kicks in. If there's some acceleration configured on mouse, who knows....

Hard to tell from the video whether it's just the turn speed limitation, but I would say it's definitely possible. Once your mouse movement crosses the turn speed threshold, moving the mouse faster will make you turn less (per distance of mouse movement).

The math is simple:

Let's say the maximum turn speed in the game is 180°/s (one hundred and eighty degrees per second) and your horizontal mouse movement translates to 90°/cm (ninety degrees per centimeter), meaning you have to move the mouse 2cm to the right to do a 180° right turn.

This means that the fastest you can effectively move the mouse is 2cm/s. Anything above that will cross the turning speed threshold, meaning your turning speed will be calculated purely by the amount of time your mouse spends moving. In other words: the faster you move your mouse, the less you will turn - no matter how far you move it.

When you consider that the maximum turning rate (in our example) is 180°/s, slamming the mouse over the mouse mat at breakneck speed while only making contact for 0.2 seconds will cause you to turn a whopping 36°. If we factor in another 0.2 seconds to move the mouse back to the original position, we would need 2 seconds to make a 180° turn - twice as long as if you simply moved the mouse slowly. But since you slammed the mouse across whole the mat five times, you'll be wondering what the hell went wrong...

:)

Edited September 16, 2009 by MadDogX
corrected mistake