FAFw - Forces Armées Françaises Workshop

[karax 0]

Perhaps you're right ;)

But if Renaud has to remain calm and respectfull, his reaction may be shows how frustrated some people feels about all of this (but it's not an excuse, it's just to focus where it hurts).

Agree with you, that's the best explanation.

I know renaud (if ti's the same) and I was very surprised by his word but I think his frustration his very high as mine...

[Renaud 0]

I'm the same, Karax, (coucou ^_^) and yes, i'm really angry to have discovered such behaviours in our back.

Disapointed like all of you could be by learning about things that bring all of your "national" communities to stop their projects like that : *clac*

I think people here is mature enough (most of them) to understand what is happening in the french one.

:/

[Thunderbird 0]

The current global frustration is fully understandable but the end of the MOD in question should not get ride off the community in such a dramatic way.

All in all, a pinch of hindsight is seriously needed to decide a serious policy in order to take out this kind of problems definitively.

Regards,

TB

[Simon C 0]

The current global frustration is fully understandable but the end of the MOD in question should not get ride off the community in such a dramatic way.

All in all, a pinch of hindsight is seriously needed to decide a serious policy in order to take out this kind of problems definitively.

Regards,

TB

Agreed. It's ok to be irritated by something, but do something about it, don't just stir things up and make it worse.

[Thunderbird 0]

What about simply starting a new French MOD from scratch, there are many talented 3D modellers here and there, this community is also full of skilled textures designers and there are many decent config specialists as well.

If Fafw fellas decided to not share their stuff, (with no intent to make them look bad in a certain light), then let's make it ourselves according to our free time and abilities.

Regards,

TB

[vilas 477]

yes, French mod was always super in OFP

and i also miss Arma2 French addons, and i would like to see them for download

[W0lle 1049]

The real problem that FAFw rise (if i have understood) is the fact that they have created models from scratch. These models belong to BI (cause of licence, use of 02) and BI/Vbs can sell it for military purposes without giving anything to the original creator (BI plz tell me if they r wrong).

And this would be the same for all modders team, who create free stuffs which can be used by VBS to make money by selling to Armies without retributing to original creators.

I m not accusing BI/VBS, i m just telling what i ve understood from the FAFw team . Plz light me up if i m wrong. I hope i didn t transform the speech from FAfw, if it s the case sry.

Can you read?

I do not get it.

What are you trying to say? That BI is taking or modifying community work to be used in VBS2 without permission?

We are very serious in respecting rights of creators of content and every time we reuse anything from community member we seek permission first.

In response to the post by SoldierIsNotHistory, here.

As Managing Director of BIA, and the person ultimately responsible for VBS2, I can assure you all that BIA did not ‘steal’ any French add-ons. BIA received permission to exhibit certain French content at the French trade show Eurosatory 08 and during Phoenix 2008 experimentation, and following these two events we destroyed all copies of the French content. Even today, VBS2 does not include any French content.

SoldierIsNotHistory, on behalf of the community I am sorry that you have decided to cease your development, but please do not inaccurately, and publically, blame BIA. If you have concerns I urge you to take them up with me privately, via PM.

Likewise, if anyone else in the community has any concerns with any content in VBS2 please send me a PM.

In french for the french :

La "communauté française" de Arma2 ne va pas disparaitre de sitôt. Je joue avec des amis depuis presque 10 ans, avec où sans addons francais.

Les auteurs de ce mod, qui sont visiblement les même que les admins de Arma-FR ont décidés de partir ? ok je respecte ce choix.

Mais ne venez pas faire porter le discrédit sur l'ensemble de la communauté et faire passer les francais pour des égocentriques qui ne peuvent se passer de leur armée en modèle.

Moi je le peux très bien.

The only spoken language here is english.

+1 infraction for ignoring the forum rules.

NicoBOS05

Whatever the deal is/was between DGA and BIA and whoever in between does not belong here. It's not anyones business besides those involved. Contact snypir by PM if you want an explanation. These forums are not the place for that. Neither BIS nor BIA have to explain anything to anyone not involved into this Mod. And those who are involved know how to reach the responsible persons.

Soul_Assassin

+1 infraction for quoting these images, you should be long enough around to know about that rule.

In addition to that, yes the VBS2 forums are closed for a certain reason (no not to hide 'stolen' content from the community).

Yes the VBS2 community is using ArmA content for private/personal use and as far as I can tell each of them has asked for permission before using them.

evion

ArmA2 content can not be used in VBS2. For ArmA content see above and the posts from RKSL.

Hm... when i release an addon and i say in my credits and addonposting that i dont not want that my addon get portet to VBS1/2 or to be used and sometimes i see screens were Bi Or someone else shows my addon in VBS1/2 running, whats my protection?

You can sue both BIS/BIA for that.

I'm closing this thread now because obviously people can't or won't read the previous BIS/BIA statements in this thread and because of that we now have numerous posts here from accusing BIS/BIA for stealing community created content.

And no I received no order from no one to close the thread.

Addition:

And the fact Maruk and Snipyr are talking about us as if we are liars made me laughin. With their moderators trying to push their opinion.

I fail to see were either Maruk nor Snypir are talking about you as you were liars.

I really want to be a little bug to see what happens in private BI forum, with BI team saying how to deals with this topic to moderator team

Sorry to destroy you paranoid ideas but never in all the years we received any orders from BIS telling us how to deal with a certain thread. This isn't even necessary as all BI staff can also close threads whenever they see fit. Edited January 16, 2010 by W0lle

[Dwarden 1125]

re-opened ... please adhere to forum rules and avoid accusations ...

[Nonkel Mich 10]

As A law school student specializing in intellectual property and corporate law i have to say;

Its very dangerous to accuse BIS publicly, while lacking evidence.

I think that a major company like BIS can't and won't afford itself to just " steal" user made content.They sure do have a steady legal basis for there activities.

Like mentioned before, if you really have proof of this inappropriate use of your work, Why don't you sue them.

The fact that you don't is a very strong indicator that things are a little more complicated then they are impersonated here.

As for the others on this forum:

BIS is a company, companies usually don't communicate about legal issues on a forum,

so don't accuse them off a cover-up.

Some things are private company information that only needs to be known by the appropriate people.

The CEO of BIS already issued a statement, letting see that he cares for the issue, don't expect him to discuss all his business topics in here.

So in the end, a little serenity would be good for some who are not involved and are a little "TROP CHAUD" (hot)

[4 IN 1 0]

As A law school student specializing in intellectual property and corporate law i have to say;

Its very dangerous to accuse BIS publicly, while lacking evidence.

I think that a major company like BIS can't and won't afford itself to just " steal" user made content.They sure do have a steady legal basis for there activities.

Like mentioned before, if you really have proof of this inappropriate use of your work, Why don't you sue them.

The fact that you don't is a very strong indicator that things are a little more complicated then they are impersonated here.

As for the others on this forum:

BIS is a company, companies usually don't communicate about legal issues on a forum,

so don't accuse them off a cover-up.

Some things are private company information that only needs to be known by the appropriate people.

The CEO of BIS already issued a statement, letting see that he cares for the issue, don't expect him to discuss all his business topics in here.

So in the end, a little serenity would be good for some who are not involved and are a little "TROP CHAUD" (hot)

the thing is through, that they think that they have enought hard evidence:suspect:

[clawhammer 10]

What me confused is when i download an Addon i only have access to the Textures and config files. The p3d Files are not openable in Oxygen. Porting Addons from ArmA1 to ArmA2 is only possible with Model changes. This problem is when you try to port ArmA2 to VBS2 too (Because VBS2 is ArmA1 engine right?).

So if FAFw release his mod it will not be possible to put it on VBS2 if the dont give access to the p3d Files right?

Another good idea to protect Addons would be to create an tool that maks pbo Files Passwordprotected/Crypted so noone can open it except the modder and ArmA2. Whats with this idea?

[Olivier Delcroix 10]

Hello,

it was written here:

"BIA received permission to exhibit some French content at the Eurosatory trade show French 08 and Phoenix in 2008 during experimentation, and following these two events we destroyed all copies of the French happy. Even today, VBS2 does not include any French content."

We can see images of VBS2 dated after the Eurosatory show in 2008 and Phoenix 2008 with French addons that resembles those at 200% of the OFrP / FAFw team.

We can also see a bill (Work) sent by BIA at the DGA. (Directorate General of Armament in France) also dated (28/04/09) after the show and 08 Phoenix Eurosatory 2008.

Whoever denies, do not recognize the work of the team OFrP / FAFw is blind.

BIS / BIA please you must give a concrete explanation on these images showing VBS2 units / weapons / vehicles after certifying that VBS2 does not French facilities.

I had hoped was respectful in my message and I hope that you will close this topic, in which case it would mean that you acknowledge that you have operated the content that you do not build without permits.

I do not take into account the messages moderators or players only management response.

Best regards.

Olivier Delcroix.

[Zipper5 74]

Threatens the man who has registered just to post it. :rolleyes:

The thread was already closed once, and then reopened after the situation had cooled down. I find it very odd to see that people are up in arms about content showcased in 2008, in the year 2010, two whole years later. How did you not realize that it was there in 2008? Why is it an issue now, 2 years later, even though BIS/BIA have clearly stated that they are not selling the same content?

Sometimes, peoples' logic on the internet just boggles my mind...

[Thunderbird 0]

Sometimes, peoples' logic on the internet just boggles my mind...

I would rather call it "another mentality difference" or you may prefer "different ways to see things"..

The p3d Files are not openable in Oxygen

Only if they are ODOL, if they are MLOD you can edit them.

And even if they are ODOL, there is still a way to modifie the textures paths with an Hexa Editor as long as you keep the same number of "modified char cases".

Since the ODOL format is nothing than a binary architecture.

Another good idea to protect Addons would be to create an tool that maks pbo Files Passwordprotected/Crypted so noone can open it except the modder and ArmA2. Whats with this idea?

Technically, the principle of the idea is interesting but not doable, though.

Since you can decrypt anything you want. It is just a matter of time.

And morally, I find it completely crazy to encrypt your models to not see them used by BIS/BIA, to say the least.

Regards,

TB

[W0lle 1049]

Hello,

it was written here:

"BIA received permission to exhibit some French content at the Eurosatory trade show French 08 and Phoenix in 2008 during experimentation, and following these two events we destroyed all copies of the French happy. Even today, VBS2 does not include any French content."

We can see images of VBS2 dated after the Eurosatory show in 2008 and Phoenix 2008 with French addons that resembles those at 200% of the OFrP / FAFw team.

And how do you know these images are taken after 2008?

We can also see a bill (Work) sent by BIA at the DGA. (Directorate General of Armament in France) also dated (28/04/09) after the show and 08 Phoenix Eurosatory 2008.

Once again: that quote shown is not to be discussed here. It's an issue between BIA, DGA and TMB. It's definitely not a community issue.

Besides that, isn't it amusing that FAFw punishing the whole community because of one bad apple but at the same time posting images from invoices here which were not meant to be shown at the public?

BIS / BIA please you must give a concrete explanation on these images showing VBS2 units / weapons / vehicles after certifying that VBS2 does not French facilities.

BIS/BIA must give nothing, both parties already explained that no community content will be used without permission.

Have you ever considered that these screenshots might be from 2009 but were made in 2008? Probably not. The fact that BIA says they have destroyed all models used back then means not they can't show the pictures from back then anymore.

I do not take into account the messages moderators or players only management response.

You can take into account whatever you want. Unless you are directly involved (being a creator of these models or textures) you probably won't get any other response.

And once again: At present, there is no french content included in VBS2.

Edited January 17, 2010 by W0lle

[Aeneas2020 10]

While I appreciate what this mod team did I have a feeling this thread is sliding further into a mud slinging arguement. Without trying to sound too demanding is there a reason why this is still open? I mean i understand that the moderators would like a free and open dialogue about what happened to this mod but at the same time all it is doing is creating conspiracy theories and allowing them to run riot. Anyway whatever happens best of luck to the mod team and i hope this get sorted out.

[BWF-Patryn 10]

Hi ,

*sorry for my bad english*

I'm a french arma player , i'm a member of a french team .

this is my first post in this forums . And first of all , Thank you to BIS for providing us ARMA . So straigth to the point :

Arma-fr, soldierisnothistory and LODU are not French arma community representatives !!! As a part of a french team i feel bad about all this "affair" . Theses peoples lives in their fantasy . the biggest part of the french community do not give a crap to these people . For us it is clear that the use of BIS Tools is free of money but not of rights , theses rights are clearly explained during installation and can be checked at any time during the use of these tools . It is also clear that Lodu and FAFW team ( or maybe lodu only , i don't know/care):

1) failed to earn some advantages ( money or other dont know/care) and the frustations lead them to a "honorable" exit .

and/or

2) Didn't succeed to comply with their own promises ( many shiny screenshots but nothing else except a big photoshop work on them)

and/or

3)Thougth that law school is not mandatory when talking about copyright

and/or

4) are too proud of their vaporwork . and forgot that a big part of the work

are not relevant to them but OFrp team . this work was given in order to ensure that the mod will be released due to the lack of time/will of OFrp team ( at least they were enough honest to recognize it and didn't claim about any copyright issue ) .

5) last but not least Lodu made an holdup of the previous ofrp work and if copyright is so important to his eyes , i"m sure he will release this work to a new mod team (and for free if we are lucky).

But french arma community don't care, we will play with german, finnish , spanish work . We are all part of Europe after all ( Christian 1987 a german modder made a beautiful french FAMAS) . And the success of these mod is heavy of meaning for the FaFw failure .

So thank you BIS , thanks to all the modder team of all the country .

Have fun !

[karax 0]

Hi,

I read all things about this business but I got one question :

What is the FAFw member's interest to stop all creations on Arma and try to hit Bis or Bia. Lodu, SoldierIsNotHistory and the others have a job and they just made some addons for their and our fun ?

Why would they act like this way ?

[Jack_Blyskawica 10]

1000 Karax

actually what interest, especially that their decision is final, they just wanted to respond to French Clans

To represent Patryn tell the French ?

or bonds of your team?

How you are?

+ Members of Arma.fr?

lol

PTDR

[BWF-Patryn 10]

1000 Karax

actually what interest, especially that their decision is final, they just wanted to respond to French Clans

To represent Patryn tell the French ?

or bonds of your team?

How you are?

+ Members of Arma.fr?

lol

PTDR

i didn't understood your sentences . My english is poor. can you please repeat more clearly ?

[rksl-rock 1300]

Hi,

I read all things about this business but I got one question :

What is the FAFw member's interest to stop all creations on Arma and try to hit Bis or Bia. Lodu, SoldierIsNotHistory and the others have a job and they just made some addons for their and our fun ?

Why would they act like this way ?

Because they are pissed off with people stealing thier hard work? If you read the original post does seem to confirm that.

[BWF-Patryn 10]

what if there is not steal but misunderstanding , what if nobody steal anything to anyone . What are the proof ?

if you talk about sarmat studio affair , who cares ?

if you talk about Vbs2 stealing from BIS worker , do you really think it is possible ?

[rksl-rock 1300]

what if there is not steal but misunderstanding , what if nobody steal anything to anyone . What are the proof ?

if you talk about sarmat studio affair , who cares ?

if you talk about Vbs2 stealing from BIS worker , do you really think it is possible ?

Anyone stealing from an author matters. Especially to the author. And if you want a strong decent community of addon makers to provide you with addons you should too.

I've been in the same situation myself several times and ive come very close to doing the same as FAFw. I may not like thier decison to quit but i respect their right to do so.

As for BIS/BIA stealing anything. I dont think thats really what happened. If anything the logical explanation is someone stole the OPFrP/FAFw stuff and tried to sell it as thier own. I dont know if that is what happened, but i think thats more likely than BIS/BIA knowingly stealing thier work.

[wld427 1705]

maybee addon makers should stop making free stuff for people.

Then all the jerks who say "who cares, give it to the community" might just appreciate all the hard work that goes into this stuff.

stealing is stealing and it needs to stop.

It is not very hard at all to ask people to use stuff. In fact i rely on it for my mod. 99.9% of the community happily gives out MLODs and source files without batting an eye.

[karax 0]

Anyone stealing from an author matters. Especially to the author. And if you want a strong decent community of addon makers to provide you with addons you should too.

I've been in the same situation myself several times and ive come very close to doing the same as FAFw. I may not like thier decison to quit but i respect their right to do so.

As for BIS/BIA stealing anything. I dont think thats really what happened. If anything the logical explanation is someone stole the OPFrP/FAFw stuff and tried to sell it as thier own. I dont know if that is what happened, but i think thats more likely than BIS/BIA knowingly stealing thier work.

I don't think Bis/Bia steal anything from addons-makers too. But I think (personnal view) all addons can be an argument to sell VBS2 to armies in the world. If you buy VBS2, you can have access to the entire free addons to the community.

May be one seller try to do some benefits with OFrP/FAFw works.