Lack of documentation a major problem

[BeerHunter 0]

One of the most serious complaints I have about ArmA is the total lack of documentation for such a complex game/editor. The state of the current documentation is akin to saying "here's the keys to the space shuttle , take it for a spin."

There was a recent post in which the OP argued that ArmA had so much potential because of the editor and the recently released tool set. These are wonderful tools IF YOU CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO USE THEM. :( The pathetic little booklet we get now is basically nothing more than a teaser. My god , even the in game "complex commands" aren't detailed , only categorized.

I know there are resources plastered all over the net somewhere but it's a frustrating effort in futility to find something in those meandering pages of wisdom, and you can only search for how to do something if you know the game can do it in the first place.

I've looked at Dyslexia's manual but after browsing only a few pages , find it appears to be basically a tactical procedural manual , not a detailed "how to perform an action" guide. And here again it's a confusing mess of links to other pages.

The greatest resource I have is Mr. Murrays Editor Guide but unfortunately it pertains to ArmA1 only at this time and according to some recent correspondence with him , looks like it will be quit a while before it's revised for ArmA2 , if ever. Still , the vast majority of the info in there still is relevent for ArmA2.

But , why was it left to a third party to produce such a gem (which IMO would be a well spent $30 if he were to charge for his efforts) when BIS must (or at least should have) basically the same documentation in their studio assuming they are documenting their code as they should be. How much effort would it be to simply hire someone (or use one of their existing clerical staff) to go through the pages , compile a detailed users manual for both the game and the editor and make it available as a PDF download? :icon_rolleyes: Hell , they could even charge a small fee and I bet there's be plenty willing to shell out for it.

And the oft quoted phrase "use the search feature"? Well , again it only works if you know what words to type into the search engine and when the results return a post with 37 pages of replies , do you really want to delve into that particular post in the off chance that somewhere within those 37 pages someone answered your specific question? And titles such as "HELP. I have a serious problem" are totally meaningless.

And FYI , I did a search before posting this and received 6 potential posts , non of which addressed this complaint.

[Fred DM 0]

i could not agree with you more. the only reason i even bothered with the editor back in the days of OpF was Murray's guide. without such a guide, you're completely lost if you want to do anything more with the editor than just place random units with a waypoint on the map. that's not mission editing.

it's no wonder there are practically no story-driven custom missions and campaigns. implementing dialogue and cutscenes is complicated enough even with a guide.

IMO, BIS should offer a complimentary editing package containing a complete guide in printed and electronic form as well as accompanying tutorial missions. they could sell it individually or bundle it with the game for a deluxe edition or something.

[nominesine 0]

Yes I agree, the documentation is almost nonexistant. But no, you can't just "compile a detailed users manual for both the game and the editor" for a simple reason. The editor is so powerfull it doesn't allow itself to be summarized in an easy to use booklet. But a friendly introduction to editing and scripting would nevertheless be welcome.

If you care to do a little reading, you may find some good tutorials (including some basic ones) at Ofpec. Link is in my signature.

Welcome

[mrcash2009 0]

** ignore this post **

EDIT: Not sure why BIS dont get someone to do this for them and then sell it as a PDF with updates.

But I do agree apart from the community a handbook and some sparse overviews doesn't even begin to describe it. But I guess thats why the community exists (and they do a great job for it for free).

Edited August 24, 2009 by mrcash2009

[sniper pilot 36]

I agree with the OP; as much as I love this game/engine, in the 7+ years of charishing it and trying to figure everything out, I have only scratched the surface! I think that if the documentation was easier to obtain I would have already released addons, etc. of my own.

Long story short: Its a pain in the ass to master ALL aspects of this game. That says bunches about the people who have! Kudos to them!

Edited August 24, 2009 by Sniper Pilot

[NeoArmageddon 958]

I cant agree with you. I made missions and scripts since OFP and i never got a dokumentation problem.

There are great guides from people like murray out there and those guys get the informations for there guide mostly from BIS.

Have you ever had a look to this: http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Main_Page

There is a dokumentation of every command and function ArmA has... most with example or tips of usage. The editor (and all tools) is explained there too.

AND you can find template missions in the standard arma installation. Just open, read and reproduce.

[mrcash2009 0]

I think it also comes down to getting used to the places you need and the most important links too, especially when your new to it. Its all in place (much more now than ever) but I guess initially its knowing whats best for what.

I think the wiki is clearly the answer but seeing that first before a Murray guide or basic guide it to specific in terms of every feature so doing it the wrong way round can confuse things.

[andersson 285]

Your right. I can recommend http://www.ofpec.com Alot of good mission/addon-makers hang around there.

From the info and answers you will find there you can search for more info about it on http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Main_Page

Thats what I do. I find answers on ofpec and info on the biki.

Edited August 24, 2009 by andersson
fix link

[walker 0]

Hi all

I cant agree with you. I made missions and scripts since OFP and i never got a dokumentation problem...

I second that

Comref:

http://www.arma2.com/comref/comref.html

BIS community Wiki (as has been already mentioned)

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Main_Page

Whole sections of explanations and examples.

Four Full sections of the ArmA II forum:

http://forums.bistudio.com/forumdisplay.php?f=92

Plus all the historical stuff on the forum which is all archived and because of ArmA II's in built backward compatibility with previous versions of the Real Virtuality engine going right to BIS's OFP is still largely usable:

http://forums.bistudio.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16

And:

http://forums.bistudio.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17

And of course all search able.

Then we have a whole website devoted to ArmA editing in OFPEC:

http://www.ofpec.com/

Which includes several how to guides on a range of topics.

There is of course as mentioned Mr-Murray's ArmA Editing Guide correct link here:

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=4847

And I have not even mentioned all the focused little groups in the ArmA community who develop specific areas of ArmA modifications and produce their own manuals.

Kind Regards walker

Edited August 24, 2009 by walker

[NeMeSiS 11]

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Main_Page

Its pretty crappy to navigate trough if you dont know exactly what you are looking for and if you arent sure if its on there or not. I still know only 1 overcomplicated way to get to this page for example. Which shouldnt be the case as its one of the most important pages for mission editors. :p

There is alot of information on the biki, but its nearly impossible to find if you start out without exactly knowing what you are looking for beforehand.

[sniper pilot 36]

@Neo yeah you do have some points.

But..

How am I supposed to know how to get what I want out of the wiki? Sure I could open a mission similar to mine and learn from it, and your right about the guides, they are really resourceful. But going into the wiki is like searching for a color without knowing what color you really need.

Maybe I don't know what I want? :D

[BeerHunter 0]

You guys posting links to the various web sites might have missed my comment about a confusing array of links. Anyone who managed to glean enough info out of these sites .. I congratulate for you efforts and persistence.

My point is that being old school , I'd rather have a printed version (even if I have to pay and print it myself) so that when I'm editing , I can use it directly as a reference rather than having to disrupt my chain of thought while I go searching at OFPEC , Wiki or any of the other numerous sights for info.

The argument is that why is BIS dependent on outside developers to supply the information plastered all over the net when THEY should be providing it?

You do realize don't you that when you buy a new car , even if you've been driving for umpteen years , you get a manual that even details how to start the damn thing.

What do we get with ArmA2 that a hell of a lot more complex?

[sniper pilot 36]

Haha, but the car doesn't cost 45 bucks! Anyways yeah the train of thought always gets lost in transition when it takes ages to find a simple script or how to emplement it. Maybe I need to learn a baisc script language to be able to explore the wiki and then maybe I'll know what I'm looking for.

[whisper 0]

Editor & scripting engine is often changed through patches

[andersson 285]

From past experiences we have realised that not even BIS can fully forsee what the community can do with this gameserie. So even if they release a manual it would be outdated in a short time.

[BeerHunter 0]

From past experiences we have realised that not even BIS can fully forsee what the community can do with this gameserie. So even if they release a manual it would be outdated in a short time.

I'm talking about a manual that would detail the various built in "function" features (ie what they do and what parameters to pass) , how to compose a script , where to put it and how to call it. All in one easy reference book rather than spread all over the net (see "walkers" post for a prime example of how virtually impossible it is to find something specific). These basics that could be detailed change only with a new release of ArmA.

Ever look at the reference library that came with Visual C? Something along that lines , even if it's an extra cost.

"Dr Murrays" manual does an excellent job of this and has become my bible but it was left to an outsider to develop and therefore becomes his responsibility to update. Laziness or dependence on the community on the part of BIS??

I know the info is plastered all over the net somewhere , it's just that it's a frustrating effort in futility to try and find a specific topic sometimes and usually if you post in the forums , you get a "use the search function"

reply which is fine IF you know what phrase to type into the search function.

[whisper 0]

You ask for written handbook, then ask for updates. Sorry, it doesn't add up. What is updated is the Biki

[noubernou 77]

Anyone that is a real programmer here knows that printed material on language or framework specifics is a waste of time and money for all hands involved, the writer, publisher and reader.

If anything what BIS has is par for the course and if not, actually better than most games scripting references. The active community around it is a big bonus.

[Killerwatt 0]

I remember about 8 or 9 years ago a company called Sybex used to release strategy guides for games which would go into detail about how to get the best from the game. Explaining all the functions and how the editors worked in detail etc. I think we could really use something like that now for ArmA2. You know, something that would walk you through the various aspects of the whole game from A to Z step by step. I know I would buy such a book.

[whisper 0]

The actual command references and a few scripting topics (usually advanced ones) are indeed all included in the Biki.

what I think is missing are basic "How to" and start ups for beginners. There may be some for OFP/ArmA in the Biki. None for ArmA2, and that will confuse newcomers, even though many of the OFP/ArmA stuff is still valid in A2, you never know exactly what is still and what is not anymore valid

But one little point : we all started the same, tbh

[cjsoques 0]

I agree completely..some stuff is one the forums, while some stuff on the wiki, other stuff on user made websites, some stuff on armaholic.

I learn new things every day about ARMA2 because the information was not out there in the first place until someone discovers it first.

It's really sad that this game has a ton of features that 90% of the people who where first time BIS buyers had no idea that this game had.

[wamingo 1]

Unfortunately such material is a money drain no matter who does it.

Heck the avg book sells less than 500 copies... or so I've read anyway.

So until the day comes that everyone does everything for free for no other reason than to have something to do... I wouldn't expect the world.

It would be nice with a few templates though. With some explanatory hintc triggers or so... I think that would go a long way.

[AliMag 0]

Hi,

Nice thread. Excellent discussion.

I sincerely sympathise with all beginners in Arma II.

The only thing that is, or should be, reachable for them right out of the box is in fact the campaign. And for a lot of them it's broken. With a bug free campaign they could learn what can be done with the game and maybe develop a curiosity to try to make it themselves. Without this incentive it is indeed very difficult because you dont even know what can be done or what should you look for.

A lot of people here seems to forget that we had 2 fantastic campaigns to show us the way back then with flaspoint. After playing those campaigns we were all eager to learn how to do the same but we knew exactly what we were looking for. Of course Arma II is much more than its campaign but a playable campaign would have make such a difference...

Cheers

[barmyarmy 0]

I would actually say that the BIS documentation is some of the best I've seen considering their primary focus is producing and selling a game as oppose to a development environment. Try finding developer resources for modding for BF2...

The main problem is as everthing is web based finding the gentle introduction is extemely hit and miss.

For instanced I downloaded the new tools; and was interested by the FSM editor - what does this do I wondered.... ?

This is the FSM manual linked from the installer......

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/FSM_Editor_Manual

This should NOT be the first thing you read about the FSM Editor; hell its 100% appendix content; and useless for the first time user. Hell the "Terminology" section doesn't even explain what an "FSM" is, nor is there anywhere a link to this page which is far more enlightening.

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/FSM

( well until I edited it :D)

There are "official" bohemia sources like this one; or ArmaHolic and OFPEC; plus the nice guys at dev.heaven ; ( thanks for their help in decoding FSMs ).

The learning curve is steep because unlike a book, on the web there is no beginning no "page 1".

The best way to learn; find something that almost does what you want and "break" it until it does exactly what you want.

The real question is once you have discovered how something works; what have YOU done to make it easier for the next guy who comes along behind you... ?

I have no time for people who expect to be spoon fed ; by Bohemia, or anyone else.

BA

Edited August 24, 2009 by barmyarmy

[Jex =TE= 0]

I can relate to the OP and to be honest the community here can be a frustrating experience to when you don't know anything. Some reply to queries like you already know what you're talking about, some will supply code which then fails to work (I had 2 or 3 guys in one post giving me code that just kept on giving errors). The wiki is OK but doesn't really go into enough detail for people who don't understand how to script. Time is also a factor and you can spend literally days trying to make a decent mission but not all of us have much time to make them.

I think the editor needs a lot more features on it. For instance the briefing that took a while to figure out has now been changed to a script which means more time trying to get that right. Why not just have an interface within the editor where I can drag and drop objectives and link them to objects rather than reltying on an external file? Things like this could make life so much more easier and accessible and we might see more missions being made. At the moment though the editor is a mountain to climb and it must be massively offputting for a lot of people. I'd love to see a much improved editor and hope Bis address this in the next game.