It seems to me that a lot of people are sort of clueless about what Arma is

[Rancmeat 10]

I keep seeing post after post asking about why loadouts are the way they are, or game mechanics, etc...

Do people realize that they bought an editor that just happens to come with a few sample missions?

People are totally oblivious to 99.9% of what they bought and the fact Arma can be all things to all people if they just pay a little attention.

I guess I'd be disappointed if I didn't know about the editor, but then if not for the editor, I wouldn't have bothered getting the game in the first place.

[sniper pilot 36]

And thats the beauty of it! This game can be anything you want it to be (to an extent and how much effort your willing to put into it)

[Thirdup 0]

People are so used to having to ask a dev team to add something to a game. I always get a kick out of reading the "suggestions" forum. Almost every post/poll in there is something that can be done via a mod; currently being created as a mod; or already in the editor.

[Eugefunk84 10]

unfortunately not all people are code or mod saavy, so they ask devs to do it for them. thats why they have devs, to develop.

[Rancmeat 10]

unfortunately not all people are code or mod saavy, so they ask devs to do it for them. thats why they have devs, to develop.

Then they bought the wrong game. It's like buying a word processor instead of a novel, then asking someone to write you a book.

[S7_Mega 10]

Then they bought the wrong game. It's like buying a word processor instead of a novel, then asking someone to write you a book.

+1!!!

[Nutlink 10]

unfortunately not all people are code or mod saavy, so they ask devs to do it for them. thats why they have devs, to develop.

Which is why many community members release their missions to the public. Some are downright awesome (Where's Waldo is a lot of fun) while some are just ok. Rarely do you ever have one that you think "WTF, I wasted bandwidth on this?"

[jw custom 56]

I keep seeing post after post asking about why loadouts are the way they are, or game mechanics, etc...

Do people realize that they bought an editor that just happens to come with a few sample missions?

People are totally oblivious to 99.9% of what they bought and the fact Arma can be all things to all people if they just pay a little attention.

I guess I'd be disappointed if I didn't know about the editor, but then if not for the editor, I wouldn't have bothered getting the game in the first place.

Agree, many people only sees the campaign which in my eyes is just a very little part of ArmA 2.

[arma2mods 10]

Back in 2001 the usermade content was only thing kept me in this games, without it this community wouldnt exist.

[bascule42 10]

Then they bought the wrong game. It's like buying a word processor instead of a novel, then asking someone to write you a book.

I disagree, vast majority of word processors would be used for writing letters, memos, and other communique's. Just like the editor, most people will use it for creating very simple missions with no scripts, no mods, and with hardly any understanding of these things. And have no interest or ability to create vast, complex, missions that are in development for weeks or even months, or to write a book.

I think its a bit unfair to disregard people who don't want to, or haven't got the time to learn about these things. It is user content that drives this game, and all previous games. so its right to expect people to use content, but saying they brought the wrong game with the suggestion that they should write a novel of a mission just to keep playing it is plain wrong.

[BitterSeth 10]

I agree with Bascule42. I didn't buy Arma II to "work" but rather to "play". I don't want to create my own game and then play. It'd be like reading your own novel. What's the fun in that?

[jw custom 56]

I agree with Bascule42. I didn't buy Arma II to "work" but rather to "play".

Sounds like a description of many single player games where you play the scenarios and then thats it, maybe if your lucky there will be an expansion or a sequel.

ArmA 2 and the editor offers tons of possibilities with very little knowledge and effort needed. Last time i used an editor was HL's worldcraft, so i was almost complete new to editing but now i make missions i like to play and it didnt take long to learn.

And not to forget that for those "scared" of the editor or too lazy to use it theres lots of user made missions for download.

[spooky lynx 73]

Open structure of OFP/A1/A2 is their main advantage. That's why even OFP is played still.

[Bulldogs 10]

I can spend hours setting up 30 squads and a few waypoints on different parts of the map. Feels brand new every time.

---------- Post added at 03:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:26 AM ----------

That didn't come out right. I meant it takes minutes to setup those 30 squad missions but I keep playing and setting them up over and over again.

[celery 8]

Sometimes the elitism here makes me cringe. Try to have some basic empathy toward different people, namely put yourself in their shoes. Only a small number of people can mod, let alone have time to learn it and most important of all, even fewer people can make proper mods instead of another M4 pack that nobody will use. The game is sold as a game so it's only fair to expect the game part to be in order, especially the official content.

It's totally getting on my nerves to see the "make your own mod" argument as an answer to every problem in here. First, obvious flaws should be fixed by the devs. Second, mods don't work well with multiplayer if it fixes client side gameplay problems: either the server kicks you out or your mod causes problems for other players in the form of unfair advantage, missing animations, sounds or textures, or even error messages.

[jw custom 56]

Sometimes the elitism here makes me cringe. Try to have some basic empathy toward different people, namely put yourself in their shoes. Only a small number of people can mod, let alone have time to learn it and most important of all, even fewer people can make proper mods instead of another M4 pack that nobody will use. The game is sold as a game so it's only fair to expect the game part to be in order, especially the official content.

It's totally getting on my nerves to see the "make your own mod" argument as an answer to every problem in here. First, obvious flaws should be fixed by the devs. Second, mods don't work well with multiplayer if it fixes client side gameplay problems: either the server kicks you out or your mod causes problems for other players in the form of unfair advantage, missing animations, sounds or textures, or even error messages.

Who the hell is talking about modding...... just about the very simple editor which you very fast can make simple but good missions with, and if investing a little more time in it you can make complex missions aswell!

[spooky lynx 73]

Partly agree: there must be 1 or better 2 SP campaigns (one - short, one - long) and SP missions (not few). But on the other side there are plenty of them on fansites, so all may choose what missions or campaigns to play. At the same time all addons which can be necessary to play are easy to install.

[VF-33 10]

I think Rancmeat might be forgetting the back of the box marketing...

Forgive those of us who can't code, we didn't see the coded message indicating that the campaine required that we debug and do code maintenance.

Don't get me wrong. I've been a fan since OFP but I enjoy the campaine aspect. If I create a maze, I'll likely not find much joy in solving it.

[jw custom 56]

If I create a maze, I'll likely not find much joy in solving it.

Thats why things can be made to be random, this way every play wont identical... and as mentioned there's many user made missions to download.

But all that a side i agree that the campaign should be playable else there wouldnt be any point in adding it. I know that many people have problems with it but i also know that many other people have completed it so it's not all who have the problems reported. I'm sure it will get fixed!

Edited August 22, 2009 by JW Custom

[cjsoques 0]

I keep seeing post after post asking about why loadouts are the way they are, or game mechanics, etc...

Do people realize that they bought an editor that just happens to come with a few sample missions?

People are totally oblivious to 99.9% of what they bought and the fact Arma can be all things to all people if they just pay a little attention.

I guess I'd be disappointed if I didn't know about the editor, but then if not for the editor, I wouldn't have bothered getting the game in the first place.

What an absurd argument...

look at the marketing 99% of the people who see this game buy it because it was marketed as an action-packed realistic FPS...not an editor!

If it was marketed as an advanced scenario editor that would be another thing..but it's not

[jw custom 56]

action-packed realistic FPS...not an editor!

and i thought it was a hardcore milsim and not just another FPS game like BF2, COD and the like :confused:

[bascule42 10]

and i thought it was a hardcore milsim and not just another FPS game like BF2, COD and the like :confused:

I think the point people are trying to make in disagreement with the OP is simple: not everyone wants to use the editor. Not saying it should be anything less than it is in terms of it being an in depth sim unique to the "run around killing enemies" genre.

Its 6 points on the box are: Story, Realism, Simulation, Multiplayer, AI, and Editor. Something for everyone. (though under AI it should mention something about staying well out of the way when the AI is behind the controls of any vehicle). I don't see the problem in players wanting what they want out of something, nor is it out of order expecting not to be ridiculed or poked at because they simply don't want to spend, maybe the 2 hours, (or whatever work/family/life permits), a day at the PC building missions with the editor. And there is a bit of eliteism around these forums, strangely enough, it doesn't come from people who are releasing missions/mods. Perhaps its a bit of anger along the lines of "...well, Im learning. So you bloody well should too". I don't know, bit its not good, and its counter productive to this community growing and releasing some fine work.

...and there's nothing hardcore about a keyboard and mouse. Unless its made of semtex. :p

Edited August 22, 2009 by Bascule42
thought id make it clear that the last line was a joke. :)

[BeerHunter 0]

I don't see the problem in players wanting what they want out of something, nor is it out of order expecting not to be ridiculed or poked at because they simply don't want to spend, maybe the 2 hours, (or whatever work/family/life permits), a day at the PC building missions with the editor.

The reality here is , that unless you're trying to build a campaign , it takes but a couple minutes to slap together a scenario that can keep you playing for hours.

ie: I put together a wee one in 3 1/2 minutes. Enemy transport with AI troops , a T72 as escort and go from point A to Point B. If they reach the trigger at B I lose.

I'm in an attack chopper.

Nothing complicated , simply some point and clicks in the editor and make a few selections from the pull down menus.

Have yet to complete MY assignment (mostly due to my inadequate flying skills and poor marksmanship :o) but the point is , the editor is so intuitive and easy to use there's not much of an excuse to NOT use it .

In all honesty though , I resorted to the editor for fun and entertainment because I had read about all the game stopping bugs in the campaign.After starting the campaign I found things so disjointed (I completed mission assignments somehow even though I was totally lost on the map and nowhere near the objective :confused:) I gave up and turned to the editor and haven't looked back since.

The game was advertised with a complete campaign yet I haven't been able to play it (mostly because of scripting errors/assumptions I imagine..see above) yet I haven't regretted my purchase yet.

I tend to agree with the OP.

[Yoma 0]

Well the topic starter does have some kind of point.

A lot of newcomers expect every mission to have an mhq, choppers, tanks, blabla.

However that's not their fault, every experienced OFP/Arma/Arma2 player was a noob once. The trick is to get these folks to look past what it seems to offer and into what it really offers. Get them to put some squads in the editor and see what happens, it will tickle their curiosity. Then point them to some great addons sites like Armaholic and the likes. With a bit of luck you'll tickle their imagination part and really get them started for the total experience. From there some move on to modding, some move on to mission making, some move on to squadding, they move to whatever they like.

The thing is once they really get a feel to what's possible and then look back at other games, they're stuck in the tangly web of Real Virtuality :D

Others run back to their safe pre-thought games.

[[aps]gnat 28]

Then I think the game box text was missing just one thing. "Newbies to BIS games, please visit you local ArmA community web sites for awesome additions"

So, do you think if they have called it a "sandbox" (like "normal" games lol ) instead of an editor there would be less grumbling?