Bayonet/knife poll

[Whiskey Tango 10]

Yeah daniel, 500m acog battles is yawn factor 5.

But then again it takes skill to get close enough to the enemy to engage them at such close quarters as bayonet range ;)

Hopefully the devs have the foresight to see the game in any other light than long range acog m4 sniper shit and give us the tools we need to fight the game in our own style of toe to toe contacts.

[da12thMonkey 1943]

MFV all the way.

[LugNut 10]

I'd like to see bash too...... :D

[alext223 0]

Voted bayonets.UKF had it in OFPR. (RASPECT!) Had enough times when it would of come in handy in ArmA. And it is the easier option of the lot to implement.

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

This thread is awesome. Watching the arguing between those that have a clue and those that don't is hilarious.

[TangoRomeo 10]

I find CQB in ArmA rather awkward by nature, far from being a strongpoint of the game. Therefore i go by the saying "don't bring a knife to a gunfight".

[Cougar 0]

A knife never runs out of bullets..

[TangoRomeo 10]

Correct, providing physical ability and proficiancy of the user against an unprepared opponent. But then there's also blocked stock and engagement/ ammunition restrains to counter such events. I´ve yet run into a mission where i'll find myself running out of ammuntion. In case of an stalemate/ attrition like scenario, i´m sure there's enough little- or unused weapons being dropped for pickup. If ArmA would feature fast paced fluid CQB dynamics the likes of R6, i would reckon a purpose, but not as it stands.

[Whiskey Tango 10]

I´ve yet run into a mission where i'll find myself running out of ammuntion. In case of an stalemate/ attrition like scenario, i´m sure there's enough little- or unused weapons being dropped for pickup. If ArmA would feature fast paced fluid CQB dynamics the likes of R6, i would reckon a purpose, but not as it stands.

Whats with this running out of ammo nonsense people keep talking about?

It's not about being completely out of ammo and thats your only option, it's about being toe to toe with the enemy and being able to deal with the him at close range even with 10 full mags for the assault rifle you are carrying.

You can't follow a grenade into a room, spray it with a mag on full auto and then reload a new mag to finish off that one guy thats survived all the shit you've already put into that room. It's all about not stopping untill everything that is an enemy in the room is dead. If you stop your probably going to die.

Grenade, thrown in with the intent to kill everyone in there. Bang!

Rush in and spray the room with automatic fire with the intent to kill anyone who survived the grenade and then bayonet anyone unfortunate to survive the 2 previous acts of violence. Shout "clear!" when everyone is the room is dead. Then you can reload your rifle and have a nice fresh mag in for clearing the next room or whatever task is next on your list.

You have plenty of rounds left but it's about not stopping and doing some mong task like changing a mag when someones going to be pointing a weapon in your direction at a distance of 3 feet, as it's not a firefight it's a room clearence.

You can't clear a building with 5.56 from 200/100/50 metres especially if it has no windows and means your going to have to clear it by going close quarters with the enemy room by room.

And I'll reiterate once again. Just because you don't go close quarters with the enemy does'nt mean everyone else should play like you and also wimp out of getting up close and personal with the enemy.

Those of us who do go with CQB drills in our missions want a bayonet to help us complete the tasks such as room and trench clearences.

[Prydain 1]

I find CQB in ArmA rather awkward by nature, far from being a strongpoint of the game. Therefore i go by the saying "don't bring a knife to a gunfight".

Did you even bother to think that perhaps the way you play is not the way everyone should play? Did you even bother to read any of the points made before you posted?

Look at Ul's post, look at the various posts on the previous page or two.

[TangoRomeo 10]

I`m not telling people how to play the game. If one has fun pretending to wield a knife or bayonet, so be it. Different folks different strokes. For me however, CQB is practically non existant in ArmA, because of technical reasons.

---------- Post added at 06:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------

You can't clear a building with 5.56 from 200/100/50 metres especially if it has no windows and means your going to have to clear it by going close quarters with the enemy room by room.

In RL, i don't clear buildings with cut& thrust weapons.

[Whiskey Tango 10]

IRL you do not clear buildings with anything because you are not in the military.

And in real life thats how you clear buildings/bunkers/trenches with a combination of granades, automatic fire and bayonet.

You however, for who CQB is practically non existant in ArmA,should'nt bother giving your crappy uninformed opinions then because(see various other posts inhabited by similary informed armchair know it all mongs and the response they got).

Go and troll some other topic for you know nothing about the subject you are trolling in this particular topic.

Walts! More dangerous than unexploded ordnance.

[TangoRomeo 10]

IRL you do not clear buildings with anything because you are not in the military .... You however, for who CQB is practically non existant in ArmA,should'nt bother giving your crappy uninformed opinions then because(see various other posts inhabited by similary informed armchair know it all mongs and the response they got). Go and troll some other topic for you know nothing about the subject you are trolling in this particular topic.

Actually the OP asked for feedback. And i voted "No", for matters already explained.

Could you please explaint why you guys voted for yes or no.

And no, i´m not in the military anymore. As for the rest of your self-important statements; what fantasy do you hold thinking you're in a position to judge me or any other forum member not "in line" with your bayonet or knife fetish. Your tiny-fisted tantrums hardly achieve anything, other than getting this thread closed. If you´re unable to join a discussion w/o insulting the participants, i suggest staying out of it.

[rowdied 44]

I voted yes because if BIS actually implemented some type of knife or close combat then think of the possibilities this would open up. Can you say Oblivion? Or RPG? Or Mount and Blade?

This game would definitely take on a new life.

[Whiskey Tango 10]

Actually the OP asked for feedback. And i voted "No", for matters already explained.

And no, i´m not in the military anymore. As for the rest of your self-important statements; what fantasy do you hold thinking you're in a position to judge me or any other forum member not "in line" with your bayonet or knife fetish. Your tiny-fisted tantrums hardly achieve anything, other than getting this thread closed. If you´re unable to join a discussion w/o insulting the participants, i suggest staying out of it.

The same fantasy world that you inhabit with your "I've yet to encounter a mission in which I've ran out of ammunition" or "it has'nt got a fluid gameplay like game x so I don't do it" as a reason we should'nt have what we ask for.

(I think he was after more than boo hoo I can't play that way, tbh ;) )

A constructive, cohesive arguement along the lines of "No, we use the US miltary style to clear out enemy strongpoints and don't use the bayonet in the style UK forces do, and therefore have no need of a bayonet/knife. Etc.

(funnily enough thats the first decent arguement against knives/bayonets yet posted.)

We "do" play with the awkward system and want a bayonet to help us utilise the system and play it our way and again, it's not about being out of ammunition as explained several times before if you would bother to read it.

The self important statements are indeed important when walts say,

"don't bring a knife to a gun fight."

What gives you the idea we want to run around being rambo and taking on armies armed with just a knife and is again totally missing the point. I'm going to bring a gun to the gun fight and a grenade and a bayonet too and if they survive the grenade and the gun then I'm gonna stab them with the bayonet. Get it?

"in rl I don't clear buildings with cut and thrust weapons"

Well if your gonna make a statement like that in a thread where I know for fact that several of us have been trained to use cut and thrust weapons along with grenades and assault rifles too help in clearing a building or bunker in RL, then your just putting your foot in your mouth because we have first hand experience of doing it ourselves and to be honest you sound like a walt or a badly trained weekend warrior walt with your "I dont clear buildings with knives." but you were probably the second guy through the embassy window, right?

And your veiled insult "if one has fun weilding a pretend knife/bayonet, so be it." in a game of pretend everything is funny and if we got our pretend bayonet then we'd be really happy.

Come up with something a bit more constructive than "I dont do it" as an arguement against it and with some valid reasons why and then we might take you seriously, but I would'nt hold my breath.

[TangoRomeo 10]

The same fantasy world........

Look. I´m not here to prove you wrong, on what is essentially a non-issue for many players. I don't try to redicule the input of other members for not being coherant with my point of view. It´s not me requesting edged weapons for a CQB application, nor do I make it sound as if it was a common sight, or an essential/ integral part of room clearing drills. In the German army, it is not, never has been. The knife we are provided is basically a utility. A tool to open EPA, skinning game, cutting wires/ rope etc. Bayonets? We don’t have any.

A british soldier of gulf war fame said something along the lines of "The best way to survive a knife fight, is staying out of it".

Another quote from the same guy:

By the nature of SAS operations, I imagine you have to get close to someone in order to attack?

No, I've never killed anyone with a knife and yes I have been close. Eight to 10 metres is not unusual. A lot of the stuff we do is up close, but people think it is all underwater fighting with knives because they have seen it in the war films, but it is not like that. If you are in a situation, you have to get it over and done with as quickly as possible and run. There's not all that heroic thing of hanging around because you don't know what is around the next corner.

The first person I killed was in Northern Ireland. I was 19 and came across an ambush near the border. We had a cabby [big gun fight] and there was shooting all over the shop. I shot one guy as he tried to escape. We were within spitting distance. I found out later he was only six months older than me.

You are british, and i suspect bayonets are traditionally a more common sight over there than almost anywhere else. And you want it ingame, but the primary reason I don’t reckon any application for it still stands; the kind of environment and game mechanics ArmA provide, have little purpose for it, other than being an optical gimmick, most possibly hindering player movement in confined spaces even more. If someone chooses to implement, it's perfectly fine with me, as long as it doesn't introduce any sort of new glitches. It won't change the way i play the game, but as i already said, i´m also not telling people how to play their game.

If you want to further discuss RL TTP`s; there's already a thread at

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=149010

[Prydain 1]

You are british, and i suspect bayonets are traditionally a more common sight over there than almost anywhere else. And you want it ingame, but the primary reason I don’t reckon any application for it still stands; the kind of environment and game mechanics ArmA provide, have little purpose for it, other than being an optical gimmick, most possibly hindering player movement in confined spaces even more.

People have been explaining the usefulness of bayonets in game in this and the other bayonet thread and you are still saying things like this?

The fact of the matter is that bayonets are not something trivial when it comes to an aggressive style of organised gameplay, they are entirely useful and should be an optional piece of kit for people who don't sit in the editor with a sniper rifle on their own.

If you want to further discuss RL TTP`s; there's already a thread at

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...d.php?t=149010

Why would we depart from this forum to sit on the 'armchair-general-pics' forums discussing subjects with 14 year old boys from Tallulah when we are suggesting bayonets for an unrelated game...? Walter.

[niall0 10]

Imagine if you could thrust the bayonet with track ir...

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Imagine if you could thrust the bayonet with track ir...

My neck hurts...

[da12thMonkey 1943]

Sod TrackIR; go for Pilifius voice-activated bayonet thrusts so you have to let out a war cry as you charge down Charlie Chedaki.

[sic-disaster 311]

My neck hurts...

Visit more metal shows.:D

[kevbaz 0]

Quote...

THEY DON'T LIKE IT UP 'EM! BAYONETS - THE FUTURE?

You really couldn't make it up - warfare experts in America are using a little-known but heroic modern-day bayonet charge by British troops as an example of how to take on 21st Century insurgents.

A leaked study shows how the US is using the British counter assault in Basra as an example of shock tactics to beat terrorists.

In May 2004 a British convoy was ambushed by more than 100 members of the notorious Shia militia the Mahdi Army in Iraq's second city.

They had opened fire on the Brits as they passed through town and were forced out of their vehicles.

But the infantrymen climbed out of their unarmoured vehicles and opened fire at the dug-in attackers, taking them by surprise.

Then- when they ran out of ammo the Brits fixed bayonets and charged at the enemy positions screaming.

Below - British troops fix bayonets in Iraq

A vicious hand to hand struggle ensued as many of the Iraqis fled the British onslaught, which left more than 20 attackers dead.

Apparently it wasn't a pretty sight.

Just a handful of British soldiers were wounded and it is being hailed as a major triumph for shock tactics.

The study reveals the counter-attack was a success for the following reasons:

"The attack was the first of its kind in that region and captured the element of surprise.

"Second, enemy fighters probably believed jihadist propaganda stating that coalition troops were cowards unwilling to fight in close combat, further enhancing the element of surprise.

"Third, the strict discipline of the British troops overwhelmed the ability of the militia fighters to organise a cohesive counteraction."

The battle has been investigated by the Urban Warfare Analysis Center (their spelling) for the US Department of Defense (ditto) and US intelligence agencies.

Before the Basra Bayonet charge Paras and Scots Guards had used the blades on the end of their rifles against Argentinians during the Falklands conflict.

In fact I recall in 1991 interviewing Scots Guards Captain Robert Lawrence.

He survived being shot in the head by an Argentinian sniper and as we stood outside his then new home in Palm Beach, Australia, he started to describe bayonetting Argentinian soldiers in the Falklands.

It was such a gruesome description it could not be written in the paper.

It's a fact that British commanders instill in recruits the importance of the bayonet because it teaches them controlled aggression.

It also teaches them how to handle the SA80 assault rifle.

Bayonets are fixed prior to close quarter fighting but only when absolutely essential as the bayonet restricts the efficiency of the rifle.

Upon further investigation I discovered that the bayonet comes from the French word Baionette - dagger or knife.

And legend has it that in the mid-17th century peasants of the Southern French town of Bayonne rammed their long-bladed hunting knives into the muzzles of their primitive muskets to fashion impromptu spears .

Just goes to show how despite the modern weaponry war hasn't really moved on.

It's still a pretty messy business.

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/observation-post/2009/04/bayonets---the-future.html

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

It surely makes more sense to have a wide selection of tools to perform a task than a limited one? Look at it logically:

Soldier A has rifle and grenades. He can engage at a variety of ranges with different effects. His effectiveness drops dramatically when he runs out of ammunition

Soldier B has a rifle and grenades and a bayonet. He too can engage at a variety of ranges but when he runs out of ammo he can charge and stab soldier A to death. He therefore wins.

[stevevcb 3]

The bayonet isn't intended as a weapon of last resort though. It's there to be used during an assault on an enemy position, not just when you haven't got any rounds left.

[NoRailgunner 0]

And soldier C is able to use his rifle and grenades and his pistol/PDW and knows + rely on his buddy/team.

CQB, room clearing and trench fights - only with bayonets? - in Arma2??

These britons are crazy. ;)