Bayonet/knife poll

[Sniper121 0]

I enjoy the ground war as much as the next guy, and if I'm out of AMMO, I'd definitely use a knife or bayonet every chance I could, provided the enemy after having his throat cut out would be unable to report my stealthy kill to his team, as is the current case anytime you fire your weapon. But until then, I'll keep myself out of the situation that results in bringing a knife to a gunfight, and live to tell about it.

Must have and the only thing missing in arma 2 at the moment.

---------- Post added at 09:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 AM ----------

Edited August 13, 2009 by Sniper121

[Whiskey Tango 10]

Why, like Manberrie...if you play it tactical and in team, if you ever end up in a case your only defence is stabbing, you are doing it wrong. Meaning, you did at least two things wrong. First you get yourself in the situation where you end up without ammo and you manage to get yourself within arm lenght of your enemy.

Wow tips lads, lets write em down quickly but we forget em.

TBH you talk so much shit you must need wings to keep above it.

If you are'nt getting up close and personal with the enemy THEN "you are doing it wrong"

Protracted longrange firefights are not how you deal with incoming fire or entrenched enemy posistions.

Fire and movement to push through and destroy the enemy and occupy the ground denying it to the enemy, is how you deal with the enemy, unless this is a world war 1 sim even then you need to go over the top and move towards the enemy and engage him in the trenches.

It always gets close if done properly because you have occupied the enemies posistion and therefore are within arms reach of the enemy at that time.

Clearing trenches and assaulting bunkers are going to put you very close together and that grenade and a mag on full auto maybe aint enough to kill everyone in there, then stabbing them is.

Long range firefights means your tactics are flawed and have messed up big style, it is also the quickest way to end up with no ammunition.

Please keep your tactical acumen within your own team. I don't need your tips especially when they are wrong.

Bayonets have a good call to be added as it's a tactic still employed today.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1485926/I-bayoneted-people.-It-was-me-or-them.html

Atleast by us brits anyway and I can tell you for a fact a section of angry men armed with rifles and a great big knife stuck on it and coming towards you is a scary thing to behold.

[NoRailgunner 0]

CS style knife/bayonet combat in Arma2?

Is Arma2 a really good game for CQB/indoor fights?

How many time devs would need to work on proper animations aswell as AI implementation?

Would you like to see that devs dropping all other work on fixing Arma2 only to deliver such a little "combat feature"?

If you see the flash...

[EricM 0]

I voted yes for contact weapons in general for civilians (knives, sticks, baseball bats, forks) and animals (bites and claws).

For soliders, this is a gimmick.

[Redders 15]

Atleast by us brits anyway and I can tell you for a fact a section of angry men armed with rifles and a great big knife stuck on it and coming towards you is a scary thing to behold.

Naturally, I agree with my fellow Brits here. Bayonets are a good idea. For all of you saying "lulz ur doin it rong" or "maybe if I'm out of ammo", I'd like you to take a look at this picture.

The chap with bayonet fixed is Capt. Mackenzie-Green, OC 10Tp, M Coy, 42 Cdo RM.

Yes. That's right, the Troop boss has his bayonet fixed. Why? Because his lads were closing with and killing the enemy in a series of compounds, as British infantry doctrine dictates.

[DaSquade 0]

Whiskey Tango

Yeah, what ever mate. Please read my point B in my previous post and before you attack and say i'm taking shit...i'm not saying my 'tactics' are the way to go. I'm just saying my tactics never really got my in the position i was crying for a bayonet or knife.

No need to call anyones tactics wrong (appererntly a lot of teamplay players play this game completly wrong then...and DXL can delete his tactics guide).

Been playing all the BIS/BIA products since they were released, from crappy gogo-spawn server to clanbased/structured fireteam servers. Afaik, you get your advantage in long range firefights over CQB. If you need to go CQB, you willl only survive with a good fireteam in good formation, meaning each angle is covered and each person known his position and task in that formation. This should eliminate the posibility you get in arm range of the enemy.

Like pointed out by other, in a good fireteam you will never end up without ammo, as the teamleader of that group will do a group ammo check after each big assault etc...Also, at start you will be told what the prefured weapons will be used and ammo type will be picked so several teammember can resupply his other teammember when he starts to run dry.

I'm not saying your tactics are wrong and maybe they are based on real life tactics, up to you. I even start to think this whole bayonet thing is like an UK fetish thingy....please explain :) .

I know bayonets are still used these days and they might be very usefull in RL, but imho ingame with the current units movement behaviour you can only apply your bayonet tactics very rarely. There are other more safer ways to clean out trenches and assaulting bunkers.

By the way, i have never ever used AUTO or BURST with my ingame weapon, why i allows me to use SINGLE. You want to make each precious bullet to hit your target. Even with an MG i try to fire in small burst.

Anyway, have fun playing and i hope you can respect my type of tactics witch doesn't require this feature.

@Redders: To behonest, that pic or even visulising the fact X amount of Brits charging me "IN GAME" throughwards me doesn't scare the living hell out of me.

A. I shoot them one by one and the one that thinks he is the scariest one of all with his blade, first.

B. If i survive their attack and they come in my 5m zone, i hope your leggs are still good enough because you will have to hunt me down untill you get the change to stick your bayonet in between my ribs (that is if my teambuddy didn't filled you with lead already).

Anyway, each his own tactics.

If i can do a last suggestion. If you really want your bayonet ingame by BIS, i would start a poll "are you up to donate so we can send a big cheque to BIS so they can inplant our feature". You know money opens all doors, even that one at Stribrna Lhota.

Edited August 13, 2009 by DaSquade

[Wull 10]

Consumers choice, if some of us want it can you stick it in with the ability to switch it off for those that don't want them.

Obviously I have a bias. What we could do to appease those with a bias towards no bayonets is have none by default, but then we can switch them on - sarcasm

At the end of the day, for those that feel they have no need for them what is the harm in letting the rest of us getting up close and personal?

Edited August 13, 2009 by Wull

[Baff1 0]

How many times have you found the need to beat someone up in ArmA(2) ?

For me, like maybe 1/750 kills.

Everytime I enter a sandbag bunker in Warfare, I wish I had a bayonet equiped.

The AI doesn't really hang out in there on SP, but if I was playing a multiplayer game........

I liked the point made earlier that bayonets should have a long animation that keeps you skewering the enemy for a reasonable length of time.

Aside from the pure realism, I think that would add a lot of tension to the game. Am I going to be able to kill this guy before his mate turns up and shoots me...and then a thrill if you succeed.

The game already calculates collision for the end of your rifle. So I don't think this will be a real bugger to impliment. They just need to come up with some fun animations.

Get the boss in the body mapping suit and then everyone take turns poking him with a stick.

I hope they do, but er....this is the fifth iteration of the software without it and we have been asking since the first. RO 2 FTW.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Baff1

[DaSquade 0]

I liked the point made earlier that bayonets should have a long animation that keeps you skewering the enemy for a reasonable length of time.

Haha :), and next you know there will be a poll 'should BIS shorten the animation length of the bayonet animation' (because now i'm getting shot by his friend in the other bunker and i couldn't stop the animation cyclus).

->Joking but you should of been aware this one would of bitten back.

[Baff1 0]

With regards to your tactics mate, there are ingame tactics that win games and then there are real life tactics that win in real life.

While we all know the best tactics to win in ArmA is to snipe/engage from a distance, what we all crave is for the game to be more winnable using real life tactics.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Baff1

[oscar19-6-81 10]

Well anyway 52 votes for the ones who DO want knifes/bayonets ! And 50 votes for the ones who dont!

[kremator 1065]

we need bayonets, they make a battle look orgasmic, nothings better than seeing men charge with bayonets fixed :p

...and then get mown down by the enemy and their weapons.

Not needed, sorry.

[Whiskey Tango 10]

No you are talking shit actually you've already stated that "if your within arms reach of the enemy then your doing it wrong", which is total and utter shit of the highest degree and is saying other peoples tactics are wrong.

Citing some tactic guide does'nt impress me in the slightest, if it advocates what your saying then it too is full of shit.

Quite alot of us here have played since flashpoint and know how to play well and know what works, so keep your vast BI experience to yourself its not relevent because you seem to play one way and one way alone and engage in long range firefights.

Just because you have never needed to use CQB drills does'nt mean it's not got a role to play ingame and many others will and do go CQB in their gaming experience.

If you don't storm bunkers and clear trenches then you can't comment on whats needed to complete these tasks because you have no experience of doing it, so just exit stage left and let us wish for our bayonets.

Never had a weapon on full auto speaks volumes. I'm glad I don't have to follow you into an occupied house.

And then descending into pvp smack talk is just laughable and you completly missed the point were putting across and obviously lack any sort of tactical sense of your own. maybe your guide will tell you how to exit this post without looking any more amateur.

Just give up, your digging a hole for yourself you can't possibly get out of.

Or better still change your tactics and try getting up close and personal with the enemy for 50 missions and then come back tell us bayonets are'nt needed.

Seriously on a hiding to nowhere with your weak arguments against bayonets just because you don't do it and some guide does'nt say to do it.

[Ludovico Technique 0]

Afaik, you get your advantage in long range firefights over CQB. If you need to go CQB, you willl only survive with a good fireteam in good formation, meaning each angle is covered and each person known his position and task in that formation. This should eliminate the posibility you get in arm range of the enemy.

Like pointed out by other, in a good fireteam you will never end up without ammo, as the teamleader of that group will do a group ammo check after each big assault etc...Also, at start you will be told what the prefured weapons will be used and ammo type will be picked so several teammember can resupply his other teammember when he starts to run dry.

I'm not saying your tactics are wrong and maybe they are based on real life tactics, up to you. I even start to think this whole bayonet thing is like an UK fetish thingy....please explain :) .

The reason it might come across as a UK fetish thing is because those clans that play using British military doctrine very often find themselves in very close quarters fighting when assaulting a position. I've heard the traditional way for US clans in ArmA to carry out an attack is to line up, point guns at it, pour down the fire and call it a job done, but that's not how we do things on this side of the pond. Fire and movement, by fireteams or sections, one bounds, one puts down controlled fire, then they move while the other covers them, culminating in one section or fire team getting stuck right into the enemy position. Usually involving full auto, hand grenades, and, in an ideal gaming environment, bayonets. I first encountered the British battle drills through Arma and it is shocking to the uninitiated, my first few ops I was thinking it was aggression bordering on the suicidal, but even in a game where the AI doesn't brick it the tactics still work, and you do find yourself very often fighting point blank.

It's not an ammo issue, it's an issue of bayonets being how a soldier kills another soldier three feet away, and British military doctrine gets you in that close.

I think the idea of wanting to keep the enemy as far away as possible is a quintessential part of the American fighting style. The British mindset is much less squeamish about dealing with the enemy in close quarters. It's why we keep nutters like the Gurkhas, the Scots and the people of Newcastle handy.

[Whiskey Tango 10]

The reason it might come across as a UK fetish thing is because those clans that play using British military doctrine very often find themselves in very close quarters fighting when assaulting a position. I've heard the traditional way for US clans in ArmA to carry out an attack is to line up, point guns at it, pour down the fire and call it a job done, but that's not how we do things on this side of the pond. Fire and movement, by fireteams or sections, one bounds, one puts down controlled fire, then they move while the other covers them, culminating in one section or fire team getting stuck right into the enemy position. Usually involving full auto, hand grenades, and, in an ideal gaming environment, bayonets. I first encountered the British battle drills through Arma and it is shocking to the uninitiated, my first few ops I was thinking it was aggression bordering on the suicidal, but even in a game where the AI doesn't brick it the tactics still work, and you do find yourself very often fighting point blank.

It's not an ammo issue, it's an issue of bayonets being how a soldier kills another soldier three feet away, and British military doctrine gets you in that close.

I think the idea of wanting to keep the enemy as far away as possible is a quintessential part of the American fighting style. The British mindset is much less squeamish about dealing with the enemy in close quarters. It's why we keep nutters like the Gurkhas, the Scots and the people of Newcastle handy.

Take note of this post, this man talks sense and must be heeded and is why we want bayonets.

[Prydain 1]

@Redders: To behonest, that pic or even visulising the fact X amount of Brits charging me "IN GAME" throughwards me doesn't scare the living hell out of me.

A. I shoot them one by one and the one that thinks he is the scariest one of all with his blade, first.

This simplicity in your mind is telling. They will also be firing at you, the whole platoon will be suppressing you and so on. We are not talking about a group of people meeting in the middle of a field, we are talking about assaulting parties having the need for a bayonet.

If you don't understand the British obsession with cold steel then just be aware that it is the more demanding and effective use of manoeuvring efficiently that makes a game fun and challenging rather than sitting on a hill unleashing a blanket of full auto fire-power at a target with no degree of concern for ammunition loss, time wasted or closing in and engaging the enemy effectively.

[Prydain 1]

...and then get mown down by the enemy and their weapons.

Your ideas on how to close in on the enemy say more about you than they do making the reasoning behind bayonets look wrong.

[Baff1 0]

Bah, I am shamed by a fellow resident of Cambridge!

If you use cover, you won't get mown down.

[Ludovico Technique 0]

Bah, I am shamed by a fellow resident of Cambridge!

If you use cover, you won't get mown down.

Or covering fire.

[kevbaz 0]

people seemingly have a misconception about the use of bayonets, to me its coming accross as though a "bayonet charge" is someting resembelling the charge of the light brigade (minus the horses) or red vs blue of the battle for independance fields..

Bayonets serve a purpose in modern day military combat, fixing bayonets doensnt mean charging 500 meters into a grassy field to have it out with some dodgy oppo's, but its about the unexpected in close quaters, your clearing an enemy position, your weapon may jam or the flaming mukkas may suddenly appear from knowhere.

All of the above is not only applicable in real life, but also in game, is this game not trying to be a modern 'mil sim'?

[Elric de Melnibone 10]

If you don't understand the British obsession with cold steel then just be aware that it is the more demanding and effective use of manoeuvring efficiently that makes a game fun and challenging rather than sitting on a hill unleashing a blanket of full auto fire-power at a target with no degree of concern for ammunition loss, time wasted or closing in and engaging the enemy effectively.

I love the sound of that.

Actually, if you people in VCB are actually doing manoeuvring like that ingame, it makes me want to ask if I can join and check out if I fit in. If I was able to connect to any server at all in 1.03, that is.

Voted for the bayonets. It would add a new, down-to-earth flavour to the game. For a more detailed explanation for why I think it would add to the game, see Ludovico's post.

[Jinn 10]

What would meet with AI butt? 0_o

Well, except that when he, for example, was stuck in a wall or something similar bug)))

The knife may be useful in PvP, BUT! VERY RARE ...

In principle, I am not against a knife ...

But if the knife will "curve" and will be bugs - it is better to not have to! Bugs, and so lacking in the game...

[Whiskey Tango 10]

I love the sound of that.

Actually, if you people in VCB are actually doing manoeuvring like that ingame, it makes me want to ask if I can join and check out if I fit in. If I was able to connect to any server at all in 1.03, that is.

Voted for the bayonets. It would add a new, down-to-earth flavour to the game. For a more detailed explanation for why I think it would add to the game, see Ludovico's post.

Everyones welcome to apply, why not check out the VCB squad page here on the forums, theres even a couple of vids to watch and lots of info about the VCB setup and how to join etc.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=75660

[Elric de Melnibone 10]

Instead of spamming this thread, I sent you a pm.

Check out your inbox.

[Daniel 0]

I've heard the traditional way for US clans in ArmA to carry out an attack is to line up, point guns at it, pour down the fire and call it a job done, but that's not how we do things on this side of the pond.

Where on earth is the fun in that? Looks like all the other clans are missing out big time. :p

Also, epic posts Whiskey Tango and Ludovico Technique, you summed it up better than I ever could.