all AI = snipers?

[thierry007 10]

Like above are they all snipers? i got shot in a Mission while my enemy was prone behind a tree and me prone behind a bush ( i was on a high foresty hill enemy lower) i wasnt near the edge but i still received a almost fatal/first aid needed wound So with 1.03/1.3 did they receive sniper practice? (everyone of the npc's rifelmen grenadiers etc)

[Big Dawg KS 6]

You don't need to be a sniper to have accurate aim... :j:

[Endless Nova 10]

AI is a good shot, yes. However I have seen them miss plenty as well.

[walker 0]

Hi all

In a 1 to 1 battle I beat AI with AI skill set to max and with equal weapons at least 9 times in 10 on Utes Aiport aproaching the enemy from the front and waiting utill they react and fire or giving them a warning shot and waiting until they fire. Test done using a guard waypoint.

In the same circumstances except where there is concealment eg. rough ground with both the AI and myself on oposites sides of a hill where a guaded by trigger is set for both sides and AI is set to a guard waypoint with stealth I beat it about 4 times in 5; that is with me playing as one side then the other to get a statistical average.

I recon the AI are slightly better than a l33t COD player who has never played any Real Virtuality engine based game; based on feel of the first four weeks of ArmA when killing former COD players was like shooting fish in a barrel.

There is perhaps reason to increase the precision of the AI.

Kind Regards walker

Edited August 10, 2009 by walker

[galzohar 31]

In 1.03, using a normal marine, approaching an AI on the airfield who's looking straight at me, he would NOT react until I reached ~175m (give or take 1-2 meters because his reactions do seem slightly randomized) - that's a pretty damn short distance. Come from his back and you can go up to ~10m (though again randomness may come into play here). Come from the side and depending on luck you might get shot at 150m and might reach 10m until he notices you - the AI when standing still randomly looks around every once in a while which is probably what's causing this.

When you make enough noise, though, you're practically marking yourself on the map (number of shots needed depends on distance, though a kill seems to always mark you up).

In any case, at something like 400-500m, the AI (as infantry) becomes completely useless, while there are quite a few weapons in the game that can kill him from much further than that (if you can see him, which you can with proper optics or player.arma2profile FOV settings). Under 400m though he will shoot you pretty damn accurately with most weapons.

So while the AI has some massive advantages, he also has some massive disadvantages.

[NoRailgunner 0]

There is more a reason to increase AI's overall battle perfomance according to their weapons and effective range.

Have seen sniper AI in good postion, free LOS but standing still doing nothing.

AI with M107 and KSVK simply dont know how to use their weapons.

Would like to know if BIS AI developers did test AI's with different subskills eg:

AI Pilots are very good flying aircrafts but at rekrut level if they have to use ATs or machineguns?

Like IRL different skills, different branches, different tactics...

[thierry007 10]

Ahh now i see thanks atleast thyere better shots than the ones of battlefield vietnam etc lol. Ill need to get a better weapon then to take em out then ( i still hve the basic rifle with Grnd launcher ) Hehe but so umm thanks. now of to find FoV settings!

[galzohar 31]

FOV settings are in the <yourname>.arma2profile file in your my documents\arma2\ folder, edit it with a text editor and chance the numbers at the end at "fovTop=..." and "fovLeft=...". Make sure you keep them in proportion.

[armored_sheep 56]

AI can shoot very precisely and spot you very fast or can be total dumb rookie and cannot hit you even on close distance. That all depends mostly on your game difficulty settings and AI skill defined in each specific mission for each specific entity.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

AI can shoot very precisely and spot you very fast or can be total dumb rookie and cannot hit you even on close distance. That all depends mostly on your game difficulty settings and AI skill defined in each specific mission for each specific entity.

Yea about that, can you perhaps explain the relationship between difficulty settings and editor defined AI skill?

[walker 0]

Walker, I've read a few of your posts now and can you actually write something without referring to COD and it's l33t players? Did a COD player rape your dog or something? Show me where the bad video game touched you on this doll. :D

Hi all

Nah Endless Nova, I finished single player COD in three days (it only took me that long because I got bored and decided to watch some paint dry as it was more exciting) The only way they could make the AI even remotely challenging was to put the player in a corridor so that you had to run at their guns Johnny Rambo stylee.

I played the Multiplayer for two days, hoping there would be just one descent game form, there was not, never played anything else that lame. They had to put in a fix to prevent players shots killing their own side it was so crap. I gave my copy away to someone who came and read the meter I would have been embarrassed selling it to some one, I would have felt I was stealing from them.

I did feel ripped off though so perhaps that is what you are detecting ;)

I do enjoy slotting l33t COD wusses though they often talk as if they are under the impression they are good but put them in a real simulation and they whine the AI is too good boo hoo; how the heck they expect to survive in ArmA MP when they cannot even beat the ArmA AI amazes me.

Like I say shooting former COD l33t numpties is as you would expect like shooting fish in a barrel.

COD is game for lame l33t idiot numpties who need their ego stroking by idiot AI and castrated Multiplayer because they are so crap. Thank Darwin that many of them are realising it and switching to ArmA II instead.

COD 4 was without doubt the worst game that has ever been released minus 100 out of 100.

Kind Regards walker

Edited August 10, 2009 by walker

[armored_sheep 56]

can you perhaps explain the relationship between difficulty settings and editor defined AI skill?

The value you define by slider in editor for each unit skill is something between 0-1 and it multiplies the values defined by server/klient difficulty.

The bigger final value the faster and more precise AI reacts (range, senses, aiming)

[thedudesam 10]

I think the AI is pretty terrible for a so called "Military simulator".

For example.

Im in quite a high building at the top floor, at the window and standing as far back as i can to minimize my profile, i fire a shot from my m40 at an enemy about 200m away and lay down so they don't know where the fire was coming from, But wait they know EXACTLY which window i was at and a hail of bullets stream through the window.

Not to mention the AI driving, my god, set a nice path for them to go along and now and then for NO reason they will turn off the road and swerve back on or just hit a nearby tree, the piloting isn't much better too, i had to do manhatan like 10 times because my pilot either hit a tree or landed on a roof.

And if you set the slider down from "Hacking aimbot rambo mode" to "Wow i can actually play the game now" they will just hit the deck instantly at the first sound of a bullet and lay in the middle of open ground and not seek any cover.

Edited August 10, 2009 by thedudesam

[Big Dawg KS 6]

The value you define by slider in editor for each unit skill is something between 0-1 and it multiplies the values defined by server/klient difficulty.

The bigger final value the faster and more precise AI reacts (range, senses, aiming)

Much thanks. That's more or less what I suspected.

[thierry007 10]

Hmm Now i understand most of it thanks!

[walker 0]

Hi thedudesam

Smoke Sound and flash all revealed you position. Your parent or guardian probably taught you the peekaboo blankie game when you were a child; did you ever stop gigling?

If I hide behind a blanket and then go peekaboo will you still be surprised?

Other games may have taught you to expect the AI to be idiots; I am sorry but this is not the case with ArmA AI.

If you play against humans and shoot at us from windows, with a big smokey reveal your position now sign, expect a hail of lead into said smokey window and its surrounding walls ditto ArmA AI. Oh and if it is 7.62 or above bullets do not expect the walls to stop them.

Kind Regards walker

Edited August 10, 2009 by walker

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I did feel ripped off though so perhaps that is what you are detecting ;)

I have not payed for a single COD game, nor would I be willing to. That said, I got 2 of them free with some hardware I bought... and I still gave them away... lol.

[Yoshama 0]

One thing that bugs me is that people always only play as blufor. that's not a bad thing but then they start complaining the enemy is too accurate, i challenge those people to play as opfor! most of my maps are played as opfor. i bet you will find the AI using an m16 to be just as accurate too. realize that you can be as accurate with the m16 as the ak107 or ak74 and sometimes the ak47(should be less accurate but not much) if rounds from 200 m away are landing within 2m of you, you are probably doing the same to the enemy when you shoot at them.

i don't think its only cod players that find the enemy accuracy to high, its any one who doesn't realize that the accuracy they can shoot with to mow down herds of enemy can be applied by the AI to them

[NoRailgunner 0]

Tried a simple test on Utes-Airport 1x group of two AI sniper (default) vs 1x group of RUS infantry (default). Infantry group moving to default waypoint. Both are ~500m away sniper are facing to the group, have a free LOS and waypoint. Nothing happen. :confused:

Shouldnt primarily the AI with sniperrifles/scopes start to attack the enemy earlier than the other without scopes? If there is an advantage of better view and precise fire AI should use it too - imho.

[jakerod 254]

[...]the piloting isn't much better too, i had to do manhatan like 10 times because my pilot either hit a tree or landed on a roof.

I had to do Manhattan 3 times. Twice because of a bug where the guy I needed to talk to was killed by a flying table. The third time when I beat it though my pilot was quite good. I only got to use him once though. We got hit by a strela and he managed to crash land it and it just so happened that he crash landed it into the LZ I told him to go to so I was quite impressed. All of my men and every crew member of the helicopter survived.

I still don't know what strela guy hit us because there are only 2 on the entire map and I checked afterward and I wasn't near either of them.

[galzohar 31]

My testing was all on expert with skill set to max, and the AI behavior is still whacky - way too good under certain conditions and way too bad under other conditions.

Like I said, snipers don't engage at 500m because they simply don't see the enemy. AI will never see any infantry that doesn't have any info of if it is further than ~175m, so of course he won't shoot.

Walker, come back to this post next time your buddy gets sniped next to you and you go "wtf where did that come from?" which never happens to the AI. Shouldn't take too long until you come back. Killing an AI turns on their super-senses, this is well-known and well-tested by now. This even happens when the AI's buddy finds his body, even if the buddy wasn't anywhere near the dead AI when he got shot. Overall, even with how the muzzle smoke and flash are over-done in game, they're still very hard to see for humans unless looking directly at it, while the AI will spot it immediately when someone dies next to him, or within X shots where X depends on range if you don't kill anyone.

Also, the "seeing through grass (and sometimes through bushes)" is a game breaker. After repeatedly failing a mission, it became a LOT easier when we turned the grass off, simply because we were on a more even ground with the AI.

Edited August 10, 2009 by galzohar

[WarOnDemand 10]

Like above are they all snipers? i got shot in a Mission while my enemy was prone behind a tree and me prone behind a bush ( i was on a high foresty hill enemy lower) i wasnt near the edge but i still received a almost fatal/first aid needed wound So with 1.03/1.3 did they receive sniper practice? (everyone of the npc's rifelmen grenadiers etc)

You can adjust the combat value of the AI in options.

I set it to .30 for allies and enemies and came across a group of 4 infantry in campaign at about 100 meters and they shot like 100+ rounds and missed. Was nice cause I could stand behind minimal cover and watch how two shot, another advanced then stopped and shot, and another went around a building and came out on the side.

Novice is like .60 or somthing, why they are so accurate. Normals like .75, so 75/100 shots likely hit I guess is how logic may kinda come down to. Just drop it, makes firefights longer and better. Allows me to play with no cursor :)

[NeMeSiS 11]

You can also define the AI accuracy manually i your username.ArmAprofile file.

[{sas}stalker 10]

Like above are they all snipers? i got shot in a Mission while my enemy was prone behind a tree and me prone behind a bush ( i was on a high foresty hill enemy lower) i wasnt near the edge but i still received a almost fatal/first aid needed wound So with 1.03/1.3 did they receive sniper practice? (everyone of the npc's rifelmen grenadiers etc)

No, the AI are brainless idiots that just run at you like imbeciles, its some of the worst AI ever seen in a game in recent years. To counter this they have slightly increased accuracy over what you would expect but even that is hard pressed to make them any more than target practice.

Go and look for some PVP where at least the opposition might surprise you instead of running at you shouting "look at me, I've got a gun". If you want a decent AI opposition then sadly your in the wrong game (I wouldn't know where to point you though as most are pretty shoddy) that said left4dead bots can be quite dangerous and they are undead :bounce3:

Edited August 10, 2009 by {SAS}Stalker

[galzohar 31]

I don't know what other games you're talking about with awesome AI. In other games they make you feel like the AI is smart but in fact he was scripted to play on the specific small map you are playing in a very specific way (or randomly choose one of a few possible very specific ways). For example check Unreal Tournament from 1999 and you'll be amazed at how well the AI kicks your butt when you put him on highest difficulty. However once you realize how he's programmed to play (and once your reflexes are good enough and you know the map well enough), you can counter the fact he has superb aiming and dodging abilities and knows exactly which powerups spawn where and when. Other games with "good" AI aren't a lot different - they are very scripted and don't give the AI much if any freedom of action, as if they did, the AI would look like Arma 2 AI. Of course those techniques from other games can't be applied to Arma 2 as what would work in one mission/area will not work in another.