A way to remove profanity II

[able78 10]

Your right some kind of guy. This is not a parenting forum. And i dont see any reason why there cant be an option to turn off profanity. That being said, you are simply looking to provoke him.

Just let him have his views.. whatever they may be, right or wrong.. and you can have yours

[dmarkwick 261]

Your right some kind of guy. This is not a parenting forum. And i dont see any reason why there cant be an option to turn off profanity. That being said, you are simply looking to provoke him.

Just let him have his views.. whatever they may be, right or wrong.. and you can have yours

Well, Ashikar's view is that I'm a bad parent & also simply wrong about my suggestion. I suggest that needs discussion :)

Also, you intimated I'm obviously a Mormon, whether by jest, provocation, or otherwise, you seem to hold lofty virtues to others only. And when I say others, just SOME others :)

Anyway.

[able78 10]

Looks like mark was right on que to flame my post.. Very mature.. The only question was what one of you 3 would do it first..

Not going to take the bait and lower myself to ashikars standards by arguing with you. Clearly the mormon comment was a joke, much as some kind of guy said he has non serious statements in his post as well.

Take it for what you will

Like i said.. you 3 just cant let anything go can you? Always have to have the last word.. and here comes the post to prove me correct..

Edited August 3, 2009 by able78

[ashikar 0]

In marks defense, the Mormon comment was out of line..

I came out how long ago talking about putting and end to this. Saying we should agree to disagree, yet i get flamed for suggesting that.. 2 pages later still being referenced..

Its ok for everyone to share their opnions, yet i come on and voice mine and it starts WWIII... I smiply quoted another post about your parenting.. Yet no comment to him?? why single me out, not sure what your problem is

Edited August 3, 2009 by ashikar

[nomdeplume 0]

Looks like mark and some kind of guy, were both on que to flame my post.. Very mature guys.. The only question was what one of you 3 would do it first..

I'm genuinely sorry if you thought my response to you was a flame in some way. I've re-read it twice now and still can't find anything inflammatory about it. I was simply trying to explain that my "elitist attitude" was largely faux, and I only really started it after ashikar said my posts weren't particularly intelligent because I was only cherry-picking things I wanted to respond to, despite the fact that he had seemingly cherry-picked a single sentence from one of my posts and disregarded the rest of it.

I then tried to clear up any misunderstanding and make it clear that I used an absurd example as a way to make a point, which nobody else has offered any kind of counterargument to.

Yes, you're right, we can all just have our own views and be happy with that, but in that case why have a discussion forum at all? I am quite open to the idea that I may be wrong, but I can't challenge my own assumptions without some kind of conflicting point of view.

I still think that the games and movies a parent watches are a significant part of a child's perception of them, just like the things a parent says and does are important.

I also still think that consistency is a good thing, and telling kids to do one thing while you do another is generally something you want to avoid. It's not always possible, but when it is possible it seems like a worthwhile avenue to pursue.

Finally, I also think that a parents' behaviour and what they tell their kids to do is by no means the be-all and end-all. Ultimately, I don't think it really matters because whether an individual ends up cussing or not is up to them, and there's no way you can shield them from it. Still, parents who desire to try to minimise their kids exposure to certain things (whether it's violence, sex, language or pop music) have a right to do so.

At the end of the day, my only interest in this is that I think it sounds absolutely ridiculous when tweens are screaming profanity in their high-pitched child voices. So if having an option in Arma to disable the profanity prevents even one instance of

[language warning], then it's a useful feature.

[able78 10]

I'm genuinely sorry if you thought my response to you was a flame in some way.

Your right some kind of guy, i was quick to throw you in with mark with that statement. I appologize, as your commetn was not a flame.. My last post was corrected to represent this.

Also your last post was very well thought out, and i have to agree with you 100% about the parenting issue. Its post like that last one that contribute to good discussion!

Edited August 3, 2009 by able78

[TechnoTerrorist303 10]

Epic troll is epic

[Tankbuster 1735]

While I love the word douchbaggery and will be using it in future conversations, I remain surprised at the flack a couple of experienced and respected members have been getting for putting forward something that is little more than a feature request.

Swearing may have it's place in war, but I don't want it on my PC. My PC isn't at war, it's playing a game and that's there to entertain me. I don't get entertainment from hearing the swearing. Apart from anything else, even if I wanted it, there's a lot of it, more than the plot or context demands.

We can turn the gore off, we should be able to turn the profanity off. Personally, I put it up there with the overblown HDR - we got by without it in A1 and OFP, why do we suddenly need it now?

[able78 10]

While I love the word douchbaggery and will be using it in future conversations

Absolutly!! i will be using this term as well from now on :)

douchebaggery

1)The philosophy held by douchebags, holding that no one other than themselves (or perhaps their close associates) matters in the least bit, and thus that other human beings can and should be treated like complete excrement for little or no reason (and often for selfish reasons)

Compliments of www.urbandictionary.com

[-Sof-Jacksonfive 10]

While I love the word douchbaggery

+1 to learning new curse words in a forum about removing cursing... Ironic

[dmarkwick 261]

douchebaggery

1)The philosophy held by douchebags, holding that no one other than themselves (or perhaps their close associates) matters in the least bit, and thus that other human beings can and should be treated like complete excrement for little or no reason (and often for selfish reasons)

Compliments of www.urbandictionary.com

According to that definition, I believe douchebaggery was applied ironically in this case :)

[-Sof-Jacksonfive 10]

According to that definition, I believe douchebaggery was applied ironically in this case :)

lol read the site he linked, they give plenty more examples and definitions of it

Just have to type it in ;)

douchebaggery

The greatest word of all time, simple yet pleasing in its onomatopoeic beauty. For one to commit douchebaggery, he/she is not limited to but may include some or perhaps all of the following behaviors:

- the wearing of flat-billed baseball caps backwards

- using an enormous amount of gel to spike the hair porcupine style

- wearing polo shirts or any other type of shirt with the collar popped, a disgusting gesture that should've died in the 1980s with parachute pants

- the sideways peace sign gesture

adding "The" or the suffix "-ster" to one's name, as in "The Rickster"

Have to say i agree with the suffix part!

Edited August 3, 2009 by [Sof]Jacksonfive

[able78 10]

Jacksonfive;1390825']+1 to learning new curse words in a forum about removing cursing... Ironic

lol, this thread just keeps getting better

[dmarkwick 261]

lol, this thread just keeps getting better

For you delectation, I present to you the Profanisaurus. :)

There is shit there you could not possibly imagine ;)

[able78 10]

For you delectation, I present to you the Profanisaurus. :)

There is shit there you could not possibly imagine ;)

lol wow... your not kidding!

[mrcash2009 0]

For you delectation, I present to you the Profanisaurus. :)

There is shit there you could not possibly imagine ;)

Haha ... a total classic.

[H-street 10]

come on give DMarkwick a break.. hes clearly a mormon

:confused:

[laggy 0]

Hi all,

I find this thread very amusing, and I can understand/respect everyone's different point of view, sort of.

However, can we not talk about something more important in the world of combat simulation?

Like this: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=82536

[celery 8]

All I can say is, the people who get offended by swearing can either start living with it or suffer from it. If anything, it's immature to get riled up about words that people use every day to express themselves, and restricting your own use of those words is limiting your ways of expressing yourself.

Kids already know how to swear and they do it a lot, one game is like a grain of sand in a desert, but they WILL learn close to irl combat tactics and maneuvres when they play A2. And they will see bloody corpses and mass graves, but they're already playing GTA4 at their friend's house so it's not like it really matters. The big question is, does your kid even know how to play Arma 2?

[dmarkwick 261]

All I can say is, the people who get offended by swearing can either start living with it or suffer from it. If anything, it's immature to get riled up about words that people use every day to express themselves, and restricting your own use of those words is limiting your ways of expressing yourself.

Kids already know how to swear and they do it a lot, one game is like a grain of sand in a desert, but they WILL learn close to irl combat tactics and maneuvres when they play A2. And they will see bloody corpses and mass graves, but they're already playing GTA4 at their friend's house so it's not like it really matters. The big question is, does your kid even know how to play Arma 2?

*facepalm*

[Splikes 10]

that's ridiculous

hahahaha... and funny off course , was that a joke ?

[nomdeplume 0]

All I can say is, the people who get offended by swearing can either start living with it or suffer from it. If anything, it's immature to get riled up about words that people use every day to express themselves, and restricting your own use of those words is limiting your ways of expressing yourself.

Well, I do find swearing also tends to limit ones' vocabulary because of their versatility: there's no need to learn how to better express yourself because "fucking hell!" can work just as effectively as a sign of dismay or an expression of joy. Although for joy I'd probably go with "fuckin' aye!". I say this as someone who swears a lot and thinks nothing of it.

Please also understand that nobody is trying to enforce their language preferences on anyone else. I'd be fighting to keep the swearing in the game if that was the case, but this isn't a question of removing it for everybody. It's just a suggestion to make it optional so that those who prefer not to hear it don't have to.

Kids already know how to swear and they do it a lot, one game is like a grain of sand in a desert, but they WILL learn close to irl combat tactics and maneuvres when they play A2. And they will see bloody corpses and mass graves, but they're already playing GTA4 at their friend's house so it's not like it really matters. The big question is, does your kid even know how to play Arma 2?

As he said a few times now, his kids are doing their own thing - playing with their toys and whatnot - and have zero interest in Arma 2. They don't play the game, they don't watch the game being played, and probably think it's about as exciting as watching dad working on his spreadsheets. They do however hear the game being played, and while I agree that adults should grow a bit of a thicker skin I also believe that a) adults should be able to choose for themselves what they want to see and hear, and b) parents should be able to exercise some control over what their kids see and hear, especially in their own home.

We don't know how old these kids are; if they're playing with toys on the floor I'm guessing they're pretty young, and I for one wouldn't feel any more comfortable swearing around young children than I would making jokes about killing Santa. And I don't even like kids.

Also, remember that the people saying they'd like an option to disable the swearing are currently playing and enjoying the game. They don't drop to the floor in the fetal position the moment the game emits "fuck". They'd just be enjoying the game more if it didn't. Just like I play and enjoy the game even with the choppy voices; yes, I'd be happier if they sounded more natural, and given the option to use a passable speech synthesis engine instead I'd probably make use of it to enhance my enjoyment.

[celery 8]

Well, I do find swearing also tends to limit ones' vocabulary because of their versatility: there's no need to learn how to better express yourself because "fucking hell!" can work just as effectively as a sign of dismay or an expression of joy.

And what would be a better way to express dismay or joy? "This is bad" and "yippee" don't really convey the same level of intensity. They're just words that are meant to deliver emphasis or a strong interjection and alternatives are few and far between.

It's just a suggestion to make it optional so that those who prefer not to hear it don't have to.

Something like that would create a huge amount of work: categorise the sound files and text that include swearing, make some kind of function that disables or replaces them, and make replacement voiceovers and text. And that only works for the official missions. The game is rated 16+/Mature and the people that don't buy the game because the soldiers cuss in it are a very marginal group and their monetary contribution makes virtually no difference.

They do however hear the game being played, and while I agree that adults should grow a bit of a thicker skin I also believe that a) adults should be able to choose for themselves what they want to see and hear, and b) parents should be able to exercise some control over what their kids see and hear, especially in their own home.

a) Adults can choose. But adults should also adapt and at their age finally know that they can't shape the world to their liking.

b) Headphones are an old invention.

[nomdeplume 0]

And what would be a better way to express dismay or joy?

If I knew that then my vocabulary wouldn't be (as) lacking now, would it? :)

But that's my point. Cussing is such an easy "go to" for any situation that there simply is no incentive to learn more eloquent ways of expressing yourself.

Something like that would create a huge amount of work: categorise the sound files and text that include swearing, make some kind of function that disables or replaces them, and make replacement voiceovers and text.

Yes, which is why I've said a few times that it'd be a good option to include from the beginning and wouldn't be much work to flag items as you go, but would be too much work and too prone to mistakes for BIS to do after the fact. I think the two threads were useful though because I hadn't thought it would be a particularly desired feature given the nature of the game, but there does seem to be a fair bit of support for it so I've changed my stance from "haha, that's a stupid thing to ask for in a military shooter!" to "oh, I guess that's a reasonable request, maybe I shouldn't be so quick to judge people I don't know". I'm an infinitesimally better person for having read them.

a) Adults can choose. But adults should also adapt and at their age finally know that they can't shape the world to their liking.

True to an extent, but we're talking about a computer game here, not making everyone you ever interact with use language you find appropriate. It doesn't seem like an unreasonable ask, any more than I don't think it's unreasonable for there to be an option to reduce the amount of "blood" shown in the game, and I bet there'd be a request thread to add that as an option had it not already been present.

b) Headphones are an old invention.

True and I nowadays prefer playing with headphones, it really increases immersion. Not to mention I have an IR emitter attached to them for TrackIR. However if you're a father and you have kids and a wife and they expect you to be able to hear them and respond as needed, it might not be a viable option.

So yes, there are workarounds and these have all been discussed in this thread (not that I particularly blame you for not wading through it :D); however it doesn't mean it's not a valid suggestion and it'd be a nice option to have.

Options are good to have! Imagine how annoyed people would be if the "head bob" slider didn't exist and you just had 50% or whatever BIS felt was "right" and were stuck with it. The number of people who would choose not to play the game simply because of the swearing is negligible, but the number of people who would enjoy the game more if the swearing could easily be removed is IMHO a much higher number. Just like most players would put up with an unpleasant head bob setting, but a few would be completely put off the game. Just because most people would deal with it and try to enjoy the game regardless, doesn't mean it's not a worthwhile option.

Now I personally wouldn't use a no-swearing option and I actually think it adds to the game, but then again I think there should be children around Chernaraus for you to shoot at protect, so my opinion probably isn't worth much.

[froggyluv 2130]

Newsflash!

Swearing can help you cope with pain

Swearing when you hit your thumb or stub a toe (or shot in the brain) may help to lessen the pain.

"In the Aug. 5 issue of the journal NeuroReport, British researchers report that they found some volunteers were better able to withstand the pain from plunging their hand in a tub of ice water for as long as possible when they are asked to repeat a swear word of their choice compared with an inoffensive word.

Since swearing often has a "catastrophizing" or exaggerating effect, psychology researcher Richard Stephens of Keele University, North Midlands, and his colleagues expected the bad words would actually decrease pain tolerance.

"Swearing has been around for centuries and is an almost universal human linguistic phenomenon," Richards said in a release.

"It taps into emotional brain centres and appears to arise in the right brain, whereas most language production occurs in the left cerebral hemisphere of the brain. Our research shows one potential reason why swearing developed and why it persists."

In contrast to their expectations, volunteers were able to keep their hands in the ice water for longer when repeating the swear word, showing a link between swearing and an increase in pain tolerance.

During the foul-mouthed test, volunteers kept their hands submerged for about 40 seconds longer and reported feeling less anxiety and less fear of the pain, the researchers found"

Read the rest of the article here: http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/07/13/pain-swearing.html?ref=rss

So we now see that by allowing our Ai to cuss, we are indeed helping them cope with their very real pain in their quite questionable lives.

Edited August 3, 2009 by froggyluv
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