BIS should probably have done some homeworks since 2001

[lwlooz 0]

Hello ,

while I would not determine the quality of this game engine by the specific issues mentioned , it is an unfortunate fact that BIS has an odd design policy on focusing mainly on technology improvements and not so much on gameplay ones.

For me it is a bit frustrating too to see the same issues mentioned and brought up with each new release cycle. I do acknowledge that they have limited resources and I would never expect them to do wonders and make everything great by tomorrow , but since the release of ArmA I am someone irritated on what they choose to spend their time and resources on.

They DO fix and improve a lot of things , yet they seem to have dogmas what not to even bother about and that is somewhat annoying. AI Squad Leading , the interface in general, MP functionalities and tank warfare seem to be among the top categories there.

I can only fully agree that that specific dogma to make this an pure "Infantry"-Sim and completely ignore the "Ground Vehicle"-Sim part is probably the worst decision they made in my opinion.

They could even drive eSim out of the military market if they wanted to. Get extra cash there.

I think we will have to live with all the shortcomings since when looking at the engine you often see that they tried (apart from the dogmas I mentioned) , but didn't fully have the time to make it right.(Strangely enough they seem to leave it in that state and move on tho).

On the other hand as far as I am concerned I rather have them not implement stuff tho than do things in an half-arsed way trying to mirror the efforts of popular mods that obviously results in very specifc limited script commands or ways to the play the game (Command Channel?!? really.. Why not custom channels then , and what is all the stuff with the radio and map about) or are just annoying implementations that weren't fully thought through (ResizeGUI ...)

[Thats not a full list btw, I will find more stuff to sillily complain about when I get the full game :D and have a week off to find out how everything works.. or doesn't ;) ]

[hund 0]

I see where you guys are coming from, but personally I don't really care. In my mind infantry is king when it comes to the game, and everything else is there to support, so a 1 to 1 scale simulation of armor and air is unneeded.

But yeah I feel for the dudes who really like that kind of warfare, since the system we have isn't really all that realistic. By the way if you really like tanks and stuff I can heartily recommend Steel Beasts, its a good game, but doesn't do combined arms as well as arma (hells, no game does combined arms as well as arma).

[Alienfreak 0]

So they make a infantry Sim but are proud of the fact that they implement jet aircrafts? They pointed that one out as they were compared to OFP 2.

On a map 12x12 even an attack helicopter with 8km range of his AT weapons is overpowered. It could sit in the middle of the map and kill almost all tanks on the map if it were realistic.

Then they implement a fighter aircraft that can cross the whole battlefield in less than 30 seconds.

WHY? If they say its a infantry simulation.

And Armoured Vehicles are a very important part in the live of a infantry soldier.

[todayskiller 10]

wow...how about you try making a game like this??? yours would be glitchy as hell... So gtfo out of forums with your little cry baby post...All games have bugs/glitches, Stop playing if you don't like it.

---------- Post added at 06:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 PM ----------

For god sake this game has been out for about a month and ALREADY you guys are being little kids about it.

[Alienfreak 0]

<3 todayskiller

[Tozmeister 0]

On the contrary todayskiller, the aspects of this game we are talking about have 'been out' since the first tech demo of the engine in 1999. That's 10 YEARS AGO.

If i were to make a game like this (and believe me i can't) it would be as glitchy and buggy as hell. However the 2 most important things needed to fix bugs and glitches are time and feedback, nothing i can do about BI's time but we can all provide feedback.

Last time i checked this was the Suggestions section of the forums, anything in this thread not a suggestion?

Are you so happy with this game? you give it 100/100 for score? nothing at all you think could be improved or polished?

Also, the tone of your post dude. telling people to quit the forums, calling everyone 'cry babys' and 'little kids'? get drunk, get laid, whatever, but don't take it out on your fellow community members.

[Monkwarrior 0]

[*]Tank Combat

Seriously BIS. It's not like nowadays a at least A BIT realistic damage model hasn't been utilized by even less computer intense games.

It doesn't even have to be THAT correct. But at least give us more than freaking hitpoints.

Totally agree with this one.

Hitpoints still in there in 2009 , a very sad matter indeed.

Monk.

[celery 8]

wow...how about you try making a game like this??? yours would be glitchy as hell... So gtfo out of forums with your little cry baby post...All games have bugs/glitches, Stop playing if you don't like it.

---------- Post added at 06:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 PM ----------

For god sake this game has been out for about a month and ALREADY you guys are being little kids about it.

If the game is so perfect, why are you trolling the forums instead of playing Arma 2?

If you live by your own words, you express no negative opinion about anything (movies, music, pictures, games) unless you can make something better. Is this true? If not, you're just a hypocrite with zero-level arguments.

[todayskiller 10]

<3 todayskiller

Thank you Alien :)

---------- Post added at 06:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 PM ----------

and btw Celery...I am waiting for it to come out in best buy...So, shut up plz? I Live in the United States, So It hasnt come out yet, only on Amazon and steam...But I would prefer Buying from Best Buy cause it's my fav store :)

---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:25 PM ----------

Also, Toz...I didn't tell people to quit the forums I told them to get out of this forum? and calling people cry babies...That's all I see on the forums now, OMG this game sucks can't believe I bought another crap game...Well how come you bought this one since I SUPPOSE The First Arma was the same way? Since they haven't changed it since 1999?

[arma2disapointed 10]

Hello ,

I can only fully agree that that specific dogma to make this an pure "Infantry"-Sim and completely ignore the "Ground Vehicle"-Sim part is probably the worst decision they made in my opinion. ]

100% agreed with this and many other things in this post.

That´s make me think strange toughts about BIS as a company, are they really serious about the game?

[celery 8]

and btw Celery...I am waiting for it to come out in best buy...So, shut up plz? I Live in the United States, So It hasnt come out yet, only on Amazon and steam...But I would prefer Buying from Best Buy cause it's my fav store :)

So how about playing the game before coming here with your invaluable input? Shut up plx.

[Taurus 20]

Alienfreak

Sad but true.

At the moment I'm rather disappointed with the demo.

Some things have changed but some still exists.

I have ordered Arma 2, currently out of stock at the four retailers!

And the "direct drive" Steam version is too expensive as I don't get to sniff on a new manual, have a fine DVD with a box I could place in my bookcase when I'm done with it.

As mentioned, if BIS continues to let the community do the hard work of fixing some realism elements they would be wiped out when they get some competition.

And about tank gunners, I always switch to drivers seat as the AI driver can not drive properly, or at a decent pace. Thats not about realism its AI pathing I know.

The thing you mentioned about aiming tank guns and etc.

Take the helicopters MG's for example.

You have a AH-1Z for $11.3 million(Cobra 1995) but you still have to trail the gun sight to land its bullets :/

If the demo AH-1Z does not behave as the retail AH-1Z I do apologize.

However it seems the Abrams have the same "issues".

Hitpoints = D&D :D

Naturally a military game draws military folks.

BIS should have assumed that from the beginning IMHO.

[Alienfreak 0]

The AH1 is just as in the demo

[Tozmeister 0]

Also, Toz...I didn't tell people to quit the forums I told them to get out of this forum? and calling people cry babies...That's all I see on the forums now, OMG this game sucks can't believe I bought another crap game...Well how come you bought this one since I SUPPOSE The First Arma was the same way? Since they haven't changed it since 1999?

Actually, what you told people was 'to get the f**k out of the forums'. Since when are these forums yours to give these orders? There are people on these forums asking for things I don't agree with, like better graphics and new units but I'm not going to tell them to get out the forums. Their opinion and right to reply is every bit as valid as mine. Please, leave the hostility and tantrum-throwing to Something Awful forums.

Maybe it's a matter of perspective but I see very very few people posting 'this game sucks'. Those that did have all left already. What i do see, in this thread and all the others, are lots and lots of fans saying "this is a good game BUT it just needs XXXXXXX to make it a Great game." and that's just the way it should be. That's good healthy feedback. That's what forums are for.

I bought this game because I think it's a good game. I've been a fan since I first bought OFP back in 2003. I will be there on launch day to buy ArmA3 (or whatever it may be called). And yes, it is the "SAME" and that's just my point, after 10 years of graphics improvement how come we aren't seeing 10 years of improvement in the physics engine (incorporating vehicle damage modeling). A_Weapon doing X points of damage against A_Vehicle with Y hit points is just not good enough by todays standards.

As I asked you in my first reply, are you totally happy with ArmA2? is there nothing you would like to see improved? This is, after all, a forum. A place where ideas are exchanged and debated, not a lecture hall where everyone has to shut up and listen to one person speak.

[todayskiller 10]

Alright, I'm not going to start a big forum argument... It just gets old on the forums I do see complaining about the game, All I was saying is Calm down...Give it some time it has only been a month and people think the game should be 100% Perfect, Not everything is.

-Todayskiller

[S7_Mega 10]

For better or worse Arma1 wasn't really "finished" until the ACE mod was released imo. Most people left the game but came back as ACE just gave it a far better feel. The work they did with the Cobra for one was fantastic as well as the incorporation of other addon's into one mod. Many ideas/addons/mods from the community came from Arma1 and are now part of Arma2. We all benefit from this unparalled relationship bewteen developers and community.

Older gamers (me included) have the patience for these tweaks made by the BI and community to be released. That's the diamond in the rough that BI offers and the instant action gaming community doesn't understand. Fine by me. I'm looking forward to the "twitch" gamers moving on. No offense, as I've played them too. But ArmaII is a different game and it's always had a smaller following that appreciates it for what it is, and what it will become.

No, the game isn't perfect. And it won't be for some time. So if you don't like the game then move on. But as in every game forum they become filled with what's bad about the game. Does it have it's problems, sure. Will they get fixed? Yes. Will it happen by the end of the week? Nope.

It gets ridiculous looking at these forums with the constant and reptitive tone of complaining. Must have been 100 threads about why the game sucks. If Arma2 isn't your cup of tea, that's fine. If you hate the bugs then give it a couple of months to get patched and come back. The same complaints get quite tiresome. And as a person who lived through Arma1, BIS is certainly hard at work correcting the game they have worked so hard on the last few years.

[phunkmaz 3]

... What i do see, in this thread and all the others, are lots and lots of fans saying "this is a good game BUT it just needs XXXXXXX to make it a Great game." and that's just the way it should be. That's good healthy feedback. That's what forums are for. ...

100% Signed! BTW there are lots of peps telling other to play BF2, Steel Beats, Flight Simulator or whatever. The point is, we don't wan't to play other games/sims. We just would like to see some aspects/features of other games in A2.

[hund 0]

For better or worse Arma1 wasn't really "finished" until the ACE mod was released imo.

Now now lets not forget that ACE wrecked as much as it fixed. It too, was a work in progress, not the second coming of digital christ in addon format.

For instance, the AI was completely ruined after ACE tweaked them up - much worse than stock bis AI if you wanted to use them for anything other than mobile target practice.

But I do agree that ACE had some good systems that improved upon the game as a whole.

Edited July 21, 2009 by Hund

[FrankManic 13]

Dear BIS,

I wouldn't be so tweaked out about this if ARMA II, ARMA, and OFP weren't amazing, as yet unmatched games. And they are.

So please, please, when you get to working on ARMA III

1. Reasonably accurate fire control on tanks and aircraft. And adjustable sights on firearms would be nice. ARMA is one of very, very few games where you might actually have to engage someone at 500+ meters, and it's difficult to do that effectively when you can't jimmy the sights just right.

2. Flashlights. Please? Flashlights? Hand held flares? IR strobes? Please?

3. FLIR. IT's just a pain to try to fly at night, spot targets at a distance, and so forth.

4. Working wire guided weapons, and a better sim for other guided weapons.

5. Reasonably realistic armor for vehicles? And troopers, for that matter? It would be really nice to see a revamped vehicle damage system in your next release. Also, infantry body armor is part of modern warfare. Modern armor will usually stop a 7.62 round and a few 5.56 rounds, so please model that into the infantry sim. We're always loosing people immediately when the AI opens fire through a bush a half a mile away. If realistic target aquisition by the AI isn't possible then please impliment realistic countermeasures.

Seriously, this game is amazing, and quite unlike anyhting else on the market. Please polish out the few glaring omissions that detract drastically from gameplay.

[igor drukov 0]

Crikey, good points indeed... And yet I whole-heartedly plead guilty to the charge of fan-boyism... You got me thinking there, AF.

[LJF 0]

I love ArmA2, really, I do, but I have to agree, this policy of not fixing "those things" is irritating. If it's advertised as "ultimate military simulator" (which is what's written on the back of my box) they should try to achieve that, ArmA2 is a really great game, keyword being game. I totally agree with the OP, that sort of stuff would be so easy to implement. It would really make the game that much better, I know some people say that it isn't that important, but to make the "ultimate military simulator" you must actually make the "ultimate military simulator". As it stands it's a great game, but it's aging, it needs another overhaul to come into the current age, it's brilliant, don't get me wrong, but it's on it's last legs with the current tech it uses, the health based damage model and frustrating physics are the top two on my list to be improved.

Edit:

100% Signed! BTW there are lots of peps telling other to play BF2, Steel Beats, Flight Simulator or whatever. The point is, we don't wan't to play other games/sims. We just would like to see some aspects/features of other games in A2.

Yes but first and foremost is the fact that ArmA2 is supposedly the "ultimate military simulator". I don't want to lose what makes ArmA2 unique, like the movement system or scale or graphics or anything, I just want it improved - FLIR, Armor, FCS etc etc, bring those over, but don't bring things that don't belong, and most of the stuff in BF2 doesn't really belong in the "ultimate military simulator", I'm not sure if you meant that but I'd hate to see ArmA become "just another shooter" with 'ultimate military simulator' stamped on the box. There is a bloody good reason it's the only FPS I play.

Edited July 21, 2009 by LJF

[arma2disapointed 10]

If it's advertised as "ultimate military simulator" (which is what's written on the back of my box) they should try to achieve that, ArmA2 is a really great game, keyword being game. to make the "ultimate military simulator" you must actually make the "ultimate military simulator". As it stands it's a great game,.

100% agree, and to add it´s a great shooter, not just a game.

But very far from a military simulator, and it just go further and further away.

In a military simulator you have all the weapons and units that is in arma, and a few more, but they are EQUALLY represented, emagine Arma

was in for racing and go all car and tyres grip on road became important.

Suggestion for Arma3 is to either start from OFP again, or to start from scratch with a new game engine.

Or just go on, but dont say it´s a military simulator.

It is a tactical shooter.

Edited July 21, 2009 by arma2disapointed

[NoRailgunner 0]

1. Its a game.

2. Its still a game.

3. No serious simulators for professionals are sold to entertain people.

4. You wont get all military stuff and all of them "simulated" into one game.

5. Slogans and advertisements are what they are - nothing more.

6. BIS should keep it up and make ArmA II stable, performance friendly and enjoyable. In the end ArmA II may not be totally perfect but most parts of it should be excellent.

Imho it would be good if developers would communicate (via DevBlog) what is definitely possible with the current engine and which things/features cause problems.

[arma2disapointed 10]

It is a decent tactical shooter.

[Alienfreak 0]

For better or worse Arma1 wasn't really "finished" until the ACE mod was released imo

What did ACE fix, btw?

Giving different Accuracies to Rifles just because they have a different scope, huh?

Screwing up magazines like hell

Screwing up Launchers

Idiotic medic system

No different Hitpoint system

Ridiculous exhaustion

Zombie AI armies

No FLIR

No FCS

Every version was even more bugged than the version before.

Can you please remind me what was so great about ACE?

That they threw together mandos, 6th weapons, rocket ballistics mod and a tracers mod and stuff? That was convenient to use, but no real progress for the addons.

I still don't get why people treat ACE like a messias.